Drew Mitchell of the Western Force moves into attack during the Rugby match against The Blues in Perth, Friday, Feb. 13, 2009. AAP Image/Tony McDonough
First Matt Giteau, now Drew Mitchell. Both are leaving leaving the Western Force at the end of this season. According to Mitchell his recently announced move to New South Wales is not about money. Rather, it’s about being nearer his family in Queensland and it’s about the opportunity to win a Super 14 title.
Come again?
The Western Force have won all three encounters against Australian opposition this year, an achievement made all the more meritorious by two of these wins being achieved away from home in Sydney and Canberra.
Indeed, the Force are the highest placed of the Australian teams in this year’s Super 14, and but for a Normanesque choke against the Hurricanes, they would be in the top 4, and therefore would have a decent shot at what is a very open title this year.
Unquestionably their (full-strength) backline is the best in Australian rugby.
We already knew they had two amazing young talents in the form of David Pocock and James O’Connor.
Then in the recent 55-14 thrashing of the Lions young Sam Wykes was fully revealed to the rugby world. I had heard this (massive) kid had talent, but who honestly knew he was that good? Has there ever been a better game of running rugby from an Australian second-rower?
For that matter, one would have to go back to the Brumbies in their heyday – which is quite a few years ago now – to find an Australian team putting on a performance of running rugby like the Force’s against the Lions.
Even in its dreams, NSW has never played as spectacularly as this.
And yet Drew Mitchell says that he is going to NSW in order to have a shot at a Super 14 title?
Don’t get me wrong, NSW has a very solid side. But Blind Freddie can see that they lack the magic dust that is additionally needed in order to win the Super 14.
OK, OK, NSW has contested two of the last 4 finals. But the point is that they lost those finals, they never really looked like winning them, and that was even with the services of Mat Rogers, Dan Vickerman and Rocky Elsom, who do have a bit of magic about them. Now these three are gone, and the volumes of angst from NSW supporters on this website suggests that fans are far from convinced that there is any magic on the way.
If there is any Australian team that presently looks like it might have the magic to win a Super 14 title, it surely is the Force. Indeed, throw in a high quality prop and they might already be there.
But with the departures of Giteau, Mitchell and possibly other quality players, it unfortunately looks as though this golden opportunity will be lost.
Undoubtedly this is the chickens coming home to roost, what with snake-oil peddlers offering players Monopoly money, with a succession of troubled CEOs, with fisticuffs and other discipline problems off the field, and with a coach rumoured to be highly unpopular with his charges.
However, I still find it a tremendous pity that a beautiful and great team in the making looks like it will disintegrate before it has amounted to anything.
Knives Out
Guest
Not at all. Clearly Mr. Russell felt an urge to justify a poorly constructed, illogical and generally bad article by being slightly childish and snide. It's embarassing.
Derm
Roar Guru
KO - getting a bit tetchy, are we? Onside - a few minor factual corrections and a couple of questions. Earlier you said, "Leinster with Rocky Elsom just beat favourites Munster for the championship. Crowd about 82.000. Leinster is in Dublin, Munster Cork. About 250 ks by road." In fact, Munster beat Leinster and won the Chmapionship this season. The match you referred to was a Heineken Cup semi-final, a comp for which Munster were the favourites. Also, Dublin is a city in the province of Leinster, and Cork is a city in the province of Munster. But I think most Munster fans would see their provincial rugby home in the city of Limerick, where Thomond Park is located. You're right that the two cities are relatively close to each other, in fact, Limerick is even closer - about 120 miles from Dublin. Ireland is small and only has four provinces on which the Magners League teams are based. Leinster and Munster are next to each other. Support for the teams, particularly in Munster, stretches right around the province, despite fierce competition from football, hurling and soccer. Clearly, areas within Australia are much much bigger, but should provincial teams not aim to be representative of the entire province rather than just one city or a more broader conurbation and pitch for its fan base accordingly? Am curious, cos I don't know the answer. Munster have two stadia they play in - one small, one big, One in Cork, one in Limerick. This shifts them between their two biggest bases of fans during the season. Do any of the Australian 'franchises' (and I really, really hate that description) do something similar?
Knives Out
Guest
I've just seen these wonderfully intelligent and lucid responses by Mr. Russell. 'As for the hyperbole about Wykes, a couple of people did address this by giving counter examples. Knives Out wrote “I do have some memories of David Giffen being pretty nifty with the ball in hand, throwing behind the back passes etc.” For a start I think that Mark Chisolm is meant here' No, I think you'll find that David Giffin is meant here. And the pass I am referring to was a match versus the Blues. 'Just as hyperbole is a valid device in literature, so too in journalism (in fact the English tabloids are totally based on hyperbole).' Not true at all. Hyperbole is not a valid device in journalism. Neither is sarcasm, apparently it's a rather weak form of wit.
Greg Russell
Roar Guru
Brett - thanks for the heads up about Sheehan, which I did not know. I did predict in my comment "No doubt it will prompt musical chairs with other Australian HBs." Thanks also for the Holmes family information. I did wonder if there was a connection. Then again, as a hooker I thought it more likely that, if anything, Luke would be related to Greg, a prop! (I knew Josh and Greg weren't related). (This is getting confusing, isn't it. Imagine if all three Holmeses were in the one team ...) On matta's points: 1. It's so long since we've seen Fairbrother play very much that it's impossible to say if he's better than Tialata. Evidently the coaches at the Lions (Wellington), Hurricanes and ABs have no doubts who is better. Whatever, from the days when Fairbrother did get a run, it's undeniable that he's very talented. 2. Valentine's form seems to have huge swings. One year he's playing well for Qld, the next he's crap. One year he's ahead of Holmes and Sheehan as no. 1 at NSW, the next year he's no. 3. A lot of this seems to be related to his ego: when he's humble he's good, but then after he's been good for a while he gets a big head and starts playing badly. (As an aside, Robbie Deans is very good with players who have this sort of "problem".) Evidently Valentine is playing well again this year. I really think his move to the Brumbies is no coincidence - it seems inconceivable that the Brumbies would sign him without Giteau saying that he wanted him. 3. It seems everyone has picked up on the Fox sports commentators saying last weekend that Deans is interested in Genia. Is there any solid evidence for this statement? One thing I have noticed is that little HBs are coming back into vogue a bit, e.g., guys like Genia, Alby Mathewson (Hurricanes and ABs), Kahn Fotuali’I (plucked out of obscurity by Deans to be a Crusader). These guys all have in common that they can dart under and around big tacklers in the congested ruck area, e.g. Genia's 2 tries last weekend against the Brumbies. By contrast, taller guys like Josh Holmes, who runs very erect, are struggling to find any way through the ruck area. Because of their height they are easy targets, and they are not nearly strong enough to break the tackles of big forwards. This is a major part of Holmes's current struggles.
matta
Guest
Good points Greg..but 1) I would take Fairbrother over Tialata any day. 2) Both Valentine and Holmes seem to not be living up to the early hype. Holmes in particular looks clueless just about every time I see him play. 3) I know its early but Genia looks good - like burgess but can pass.
Brett McKay
Guest
Greg, there could be merit in Josh Holmes joining his brother at the Force (reserve hooker Luke), but the mail seems to be he'll head back to NSW. Pity, he's the best of the three scrumhalves at the Brumbies, and his running game would suit Giteau's quite well. Of course, what you may have inadvertantly overlooked is that Brett Sheehan has confirmed a 2yr move to Perth..
Greg Russell
Roar Guru
The Western Force remain nothing if not newsworthy with their off-field activities - the further comings and goings announced by them over the last week are an interesting postscript to my article: 1. TH prop Tim Fairbrother from Wellington/Hurricanes has signed up. It seems he is replacing another Kiwi import, Ben Castle, who is off to English riches. However Castle is a LH and is not of the quality of Fairbrother, who is an extremely powerful scrummager, even if he isn't as good around the field as many modern props. One should not read too much into the fact that Fairbrother has seen little action in recent years, because his path has been blocked by All Blacks prop Neemia Tialata, who is a truly outstanding player. So Fairbrother is a superb acquisition for the Force, because as I wrote in my article, "If there is any Australian team that presently looks like it might have the magic to win a Super 14 title, it surely is the Force. Indeed, throw in a high quality prop and they might already be there." 2. HB Josh Valentine will be following Matt Giteau to the Brumbies. This will complete the full house of Australian S14 franchises for the restless redhead, who has previously been at NSW (twice) and Qld. No doubt it will prompt musical chairs with other Australian HBs - what price the other Josh, Holmes, moving in the reverse direction to the Force? (Incidentally, what's with Holmes? - a few years ago he appealed as the next great Australian HB in the making, but in the last few years he has been totally underwhelming. Why is his career going backwards? Is he lacking the right coaching?) There are Wallaby ramifications associated with both the above moves: 1. Fairbrother has Australian grandparents and thus is eligible for the Wallabies. He has also said that at age 27 he has no more time to waste, which presumably means he aspires to international rugby (if not he would surely have taken a more lucrative contract in the NH). Australia is not exactly flush with quality tight-heads, and Al Baxter has mooted the possibility of going offshore. No wonder Deans has said he is interested in Fairbother's arrival! 2. The incumbent Wallaby HB, Burgess, is not in great form, while last year's backup, Cordingley, now plays offshore. Deans was rumored to be interested in Will Genia of Qld, but it has just been announced that he's out for the season. So it's anyone's guess who will wear the 9 for the Wallabies this year. In this context it is very interesting that Valentine is moving with Giteau to the Brumbies. One has to assume that this move is with Giteau's blessing, and that the two have formed a strong bond. Much as Andy Ellis became an All Black partly on the back of Dan Carter's comfort with him, it is surely possible that Deans will see logic in choosing Valentine as a combination with his star 10. Valentine may not be the best 9 in Australia (I don't know), but if he brings out the best in Giteau, then it's worth selecting him for the Wallabies.
AndyS
Guest
Sam, I'd have to disagree about the Force backline. They may be touted as the best line-up, but going through them: Valentine - was sitting second or third string at the 'Tahs and not getting a game Giteau - yep, conceded, he'd be a starter anywhere Shepherd - was getting splinters at the 'Tahs and was a bit of a discipline case O'Connor - as noted, was straight from school and probably brought through faster by the Force than anyone else would have (too fast?) Cross - was playing league Staniforth - was playing in Europe Mitchell - yep, conceded, would probably (?) been a starter in Q'ld So, two out of the line would be what I would call "poached". The rest wouldn't be here at all or would be way behind their current development.
matta
Guest
greg - not a bad comeback actually. Marty - you are 100% right. Best number 6 I have seen in a long long time.
Marty
Guest
Spiro, Rocky's magic vs Munster. Clearly the best in the business and what the Waratahs have missed. http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/video-analysis-rocky-vs-munster/
Sam Taulelei
Roar Guru
Greg Players don't like instability and prefer to play out their career for one team. Aside from financial benefits offered to lure players away, intangible factors that appeal are. Playing for a successful team Playing under a particular coach Achieving personal ambitions of winning a championship and national selection Improving their chances of first choice selection Being closer to family and friends There are also factors that drive players away: Financial committments that haven't been honoured Personality clash with coach/administration Inability to secure a permanent position in the team Earlier in the week there were reports that Josh Valentine was considering following Matt Giteau to the Brumbies which has been confirmed today. Following on from the departure of Digby Ioane as well as Giteau and Drew Mitchell at the end of the season it places their recruitment drive at risk and does raise questions about the culture of the Force and the management style of John Mitchell given that these were all imported players. The Force management will be circling their wagons around James O'Connor who would be considering his future with the Force and whether the quality of replacements would assist or hinder his own development as a player. Some players reported to be approached to fill Giteau's spot include Nick Evans and Carlos Spencer who aren't interested. It is a shame to see the most talented backline in Australia disbanded but it should be remembered that, apart from O'Connor they only came together in the first place by poaching from other Australian teams. So there is probably little sympathy for the Force's plight amongst the other states. If a fifth Australian team gets off the ground they would do well to study the Force as a case study for the benefits and pitfalls in buying top players from around the country and the world.
Spiro Zavos
Expert
I agree with Greg about Sam Wykes. His performance was outstanding. I remember thinking at the time that this is a play who deserves to be quickly promoted to the Wallabies. Bob Dwyer used to say that the art of selection was to find the players who brought an extra dimension to their position. Wykes is a terrific runner with the ball, as Greg noted. There are plenty of number 6 ball runners going around, with Rocky Elsom showing against Munster for Leinster that he may be the best right now. But few second rowers run as quickly and as powerfully as Wykes. The only young player who comes to mind is Isaac Ross, the Crusader's second rower who is keeping the All Black Ross Filipio out of the Crusaders starting side. It'll be interesting to see who gets into the national side first between Wykes and Ross.
Greg Russell
Roar Guru
Matta, I took your advice. I live in Canterbury (NZ), which is Richard Loe territory. So I prostrated myself before the great man, and said "Richard, toughen me up." Dr Paul Carozza was the attending medic. ...
matta
Guest
Greg - harden up.
Greg Russell
Roar Guru
To respond to some comments: I am not a journalist but from my (relatively brief) experience of writing for The Roar I believe I can make a few points about journalism: 1. The title of an article is more a hook to attract readers than a summary of the article. So Knives Out wrote "The title of the article is never actually explored in the main content", while Harry commented "Greg I wouldn’t say waste of talent". The title I suggested with my article was "The waste of the Western Force". Fair play to the editor for adding an extra "hook" to this title - it did its job. But now you know why the article is not on "waste of talent". 2. Sometimes every word is important. Some people took exception to my statement about Sam Wykes; in particular, OldManEmu gave me a list of Australian second rowers whom Wykes may one day be fit to tie the shoe laces of. So let's have a look at my offending sentence: "Has there ever been a better game of running rugby from an Australian second-rower?" Notice the words "a" and "running". In other words, I am only talking about ONE game, and even there I am only talking about a PARTICULAR STYLE OF PLAY (running, as opposed to scrummaging, lineout taking and the many other things a second-rower might do). And yet somehow OME has decided from this sentence that I am saying Wykes is the greatest ever Australian second rower. Beats me. 3. Just as hyperbole is a valid device in literature, so too in journalism (in fact the English tabloids are totally based on hyperbole). So what's wrong with a bit of hyperbole? I note that people like Knives Out who accuse me of using hyperbole never use it themselves. That statement is not an exaggeration. Rather, it's sarcasm. And it's interesting that Who Needs Melon provides a list of seven pieces of hyperbole without actually giving any evidence of exaggeration. It is factually correct, not hyperbole, that but for the last-minute loss to the Hurricanes, the Force would have been equal 3rd on the table (before last weekend). If Rod Kafer and Spiro Zavos agree that the Western Force's backline is the best in Australia, that's a pretty good start in terms of support. Anyone who can't see that David Pocock and James O'Connor are "amazing young talents" is a person who is an extremely poor judge of rugby players (sorry, but there is no polite way to put this). When have NSW ever played as spectacularly as the Force did against the Lions? And so on. As for the hyperbole about Wykes, a couple of people did address this by giving counter examples. Knives Out wrote "I do have some memories of David Giffen being pretty nifty with the ball in hand, throwing behind the back passes etc." For a start I think that Mark Chisolm is meant here - he has indeed scored many a "nifty" try from Gregan "throwing behind the back passes". But to this I would say that Chisolm is only a ball runner, not at all a ball distributor. A better counter example came from Craig: "Super 14 final 2004 Brumbies vs Crusaders: Radike Samo. game over…" Indeed, this was exactly the example I thought of myself when I wrote the article. Finally, rugby is a game that is built on the virtue of respect: for the history of the game, for the opposition, for the referee, for one's teammates, and so on. So it's a surprise to find people who profess to love the game of rugby writing disrespectful, ad hominem comments. It's possible to write disagreeing comments respectfully, for example Sheek does so regularly. And he thereby earns respect. (Incidentally, please don't bother replying that I am wuss. I can take being called a "magnificent and obviously experienced bullshit artist", an "effwit", and so on, although I note the irony of this being done by people hiding behind a nom de plume. That's not what my comment is about.)
Working Class Rugger
Guest
Tommym Exactly, how many others teams are in Sydney alone. Rugby is the smallest code in Aus. So for the Tahs to 21,000 as the lowest crowd in a highly impressive achievement. The panning of the Force isn't qualified. Watching PTI Aust on ESPN there seems to be a perception within some media outlets because of some player turmoil. Yes they will be playing in front of capacity crowds hext season at Member's Equity and dare I say it this will continue after the upgrade. Not bad since they are going up against the juggernaut that is the AFL that exists in the form of fanatical support for West Coast and Fremantle. No one foreseeing the end of Perth Glory. And I would hazard to guess that they won't get close to filling Member's this year or even after the upgrade.
Jerry
Guest
Heh, was just stirring a bit. In all seriousness, I'm sure John Eales must have put in a bunch of barn storming matches for the Reds over the years though.
Craig
Guest
Jerry, He played for the wallabies. That makes him Australian enough for me, or should we get into a debate about pacific islanders and whether they should be representing the AB's.....
TommyM
Guest
"The Waraths lowest crowd this year was around 21,000. The best of the Aus teams. Incidentally better than the vast majority of NRL teams." How many people are there in Sydney? Is Sydney a rugby town or an AFL-obsessed town? 2000 more people per game for a team that has been established for decades and is the only rugby team in the state competing in the S14 against the Force who manage almost that despite no history, having to start from scratch in an AFL town, and playing in possibly the worst rugby viewing stadium in the world? Hmmm... How many NRL teams are there in NSW all competing for the same bums on seats as the ONE team in the Waratahs? Hmmmm..... I find the misguided antipathy directed towards the Force by people whio by their own admission have never been to one of their games and don't regularly watch them on TV bizarre and frustrating. BTW- I'd say the same about the Tahs- especially from their own fans. Give them a break, they win a lot!! I live in Melbourne, but can tell you that WA very much deserve their team. The passion of their fans is unrivalled in my experience. Next year every home game will be turning away thousands of people (with only 18,000 seats) and in 2011 I'm certain that they'll fill the 25,000 planned. Carn the Force :-)
onside
Guest
Bulldog you see thats what is good about this site,discussion,and a bit of passion. None of my remarks are personal. Its good to get some facts on the table. Most rugby supporters have little or no idea about WA's rugby history. All most people hear about is The Western Force.And in a convoluted way that relates to my point.There needs to be more focus on local rugby than Super 14. Rugby supporters would struggle to name any more than a few key teams in other states.The clubs need cash.Even if rugby put together some sort of RUGBY POOLS it would not only raise funds ,but also introduce people to the amount of rugby teams around the nation.Let me put it another way;people are often asked ,"Why didnt you ask the question" My answer is ,"what if you dont know the questions to ask".WA rugby should get its story out there.Write a few things for The Roar. I am not your enemy.Lack of information is your enemy.(yeah I know ,I could have googled Rugby in WA but I didnt .)