It was a wet, cool afternoon in Auckland this Saturday. The clouds hung low (fittingly for the start of duck-shooting season), and it was a grey affair. A bit like the Northern Hemisphere. And that’s how the rugby was, too.
The recent IRB meeting, as we know, ditched most of the ELVs, which were designed to speed up the game by reducing the number of penalties issued at the breakdown and scrum.
The Southern Hemisphere countries embraced the rules, as indeed they have most progressive rule changes over the years. (Remember that the kicking-out-on-the-full-from-outside-the-22-metre rule was once known as the ‘Australian variation’ – not the ‘Stephen-Jones-Memorial-Old-Fartonions-Will-Carling-English variation’)
So to the afternoon.
I wandered along to Western Springs to see Ponsonby play Grammar-Carlton in a premier club rugby match. Both were top ranked teams (Ponsonby being perennial champions and one of the most decorated clubs in New Zealand rugby).
Admittedly the weather made the rugby more dour than normal. But the reversion to the non-ELV rules was striking. The wet conditions made for numerous penalties at the breakdown and scrum, for all the normal reasons – hands on the ball, bodies on the ground, scrum collapsing, an so on.
The game was slow, with stoppages frequent, and limited action. It was remarkable for a game involving Ponsonby – who, like Randwick in Sydney, are a team renowned for running rugby.
What was clear to all was that, with the ELVs and the subsequent quick tap, play continued immediately. Often it was prosaic, but at least it was quick.
Thanks to the IRB, Stephen Jones and all those advocates of ‘proper rugby’. all those little misdemeanours are now, again, full-arm penalties. Instead of the quick tap, players amble back, water bottles come on, the team awarded the penalty gets slowly onside, minutes ebb away, and someone either takes yet another shot at goal or kicks for touch.
It was most definitely prosaic, and dead slow.
Maybe the Southern Hemisphere should do what the Australians (and us New Zealanders, somewhat later) once did, and adopt a Southern Hemisphere variation? Maybe we should keep the short-arm penalty for ruck-maul misdemeanours for club, provincial, Super 14, and even Tri-Nations Tests.
Adapting to IRB rules when we play those Northern excitement machines won’t be difficult (as the results from last November’s European tests showed). And we might at least see some quick footy, prosaic or not.
Knives Out
Guest
Apparently this Ma'a Nonu is very good so I wouldn't be too sure about your dog's chances.
Derm
Roar Guru
Oh I see. I think. I mean the Heineken Cup is a super tournament as well. And my local club has a super team. In fact, my dog is super too - he can catch a stick with no hands. Betcha the Abercrombie Curly Tails can't do that.
Knives Out
Guest
'I thought they all played for the same SH team.' No. That isn't true. That's typical NH stereotyping. The three nations all have their own franchises that compete in a Super tournament: the Wellington Grindylows, the Northern Transvaal Dandylions, the A.C.T. Curly Tails, the Canterbury Porridge Heads, and so forth. It's quite a broad, complex tournament with plenty of running, no kicking or mauling and excellent corporate branding.
Derm
Roar Guru
Oh is there a difference? I thought they all played for the same SH team. That's what it sounds like anyway.
Jerry
Guest
Perhaps Pothale, but Katzilla is not Australian hence his not wanting the T-rex down south.
Derm
Roar Guru
I presume you mean Whittaker. Elsom is the best player Australia has - by a mile.
katzilla
Roar Guru
Im happy if he stays in the north. have him. i certainly don't mind him not being around come the 3N
Derm
Roar Guru
Fecking right. We'll package him up an all with a little bow on top - even if he did manage to play well on Saturday. On second thoughts, might need him for that little final in Edinburgh, though, Dave - so they can't have him till after 7.30pm on May 23rd. Rocky is wisely keeping his counsel until after that time also. Betcha he leaves after he's stuffed his winner's medal in his back pocket.
Dublin Dave
Guest
At the risk of exacerbating friction between north and south can I just say that after his monster performance for Leinster in the semifinal last weekend, you CAN'T HAVE ROCKY ELSOM BACK!! We're keeping him. So there. Tell you what. You can have Chris Whitaker back. That's fair.
Knives Out
Guest
'I guess we’ll have to wait until the Semis here. If the Canes Sharks and Chiefs go into their shells then i’ll just have egg on my face.' Not really. I can't see the Chiefs doing that simply because they have no other means of winning a football match. Their up-tempo game is in many ways something that has been forced upon them through a lack of a dominating tight five. I suppose it does help having two of the best back three players in the world game. IMO, the Chiefs and the Hurricanes are merely the exception that proves the rule.
katzilla
Roar Guru
'I think this illustrates my point: that there isn’t a generic Super excellence that courses through all the backlines' I agree with you on this point KO, there are some truely diabolical backlines in this Super 14. Waratahs and 3 of the SA teams to start with. But like i said, at the top end (incl Chiefs) there is a desire to be creative with the ball. I guess we'll have to wait until the Semis here. If the Canes Sharks and Chiefs go into their shells then i'll just have egg on my face. BTW I did see that Quarter Final, was a good game. Mid field domination at its best.
Knives Out
Guest
I have no intention on getting into a mud slinging contest but I don't think it's appropriate to compare knock-out rugby to a 13 game tournament. The Munster backline was constantly on the back foot so perhaps they were employing Mafi to get over the advantage line and create a platform for the back row? Perhaps they had identified Leinster's fly half replacement - Sexton - as a weakness? The fact of the matter is that Munster have produced some excellent running rugby this year. One only has to examine their quarter final demolition of the Ospreys to see how the back three played off the midfield. Realistically, the Super running teams are the Hurricanes and the Sharks, the three below them are inherently conservative, and the teams below them are inherently erratic. I think this illustrates my point: that there isn't a generic Super excellence that courses through all the backlines. The age old truism applies that some teams are more capable than others. Conversely, the teams that scored the most tries in the GP all finished in the top four. Food for thought.
katzilla
Roar Guru
'from the top (Waratahs) to the bottom (Cheetahs).' Thats what you said, since when does being 5th equate to being top? Since it suited your argument thats when. Pedantic? lol. Intent is merely the start (but you must have it firstly if your going to acutally do something with the ball), my intial thought was that the teams didn't seem to be trying much in the way of variation during second phase play. If you go back and read my post i Said "they don't seem to be getting up to much with the ball" That doesn't say that the technique is poor, the organisation and intent just isn't the same. Sure you can keep mentioning how there are some crap teams in the S14 that have no idea about running an effective backline. But at the top end, the teams that have had the 'Intent' to be creative with the ball are now clicking and turning other teams to Mud (those with the forward pack to back it that is) Lets not get into a mud slinging contest over whose backlines are better, I just made an observation on what i saw not working. Don't get your panties in a bunch. I'd do the same to any team in any comp that i watched.
Knives Out
Guest
As far as I was aware, according to Mr. Zavos and Mr. Greg Russell, the Force are the flavour of the month - what with their star-studded backline, despite the fact that their back division exploits have largely been mediocrity exemplified The Waratahs are near the top of the table, and led the competition for a few weeks. I could be as humourously pedantic as you and point out that I didn't actually label the Waratahs the first placed team in the Super tournament - as you have implied - but why bother? Incidentally, what's with making stuff up tonight? Anyhow, my point - clearly - is that there is no uniform great back play that courses through Super rugby. A lot of the backline play has been terrible, so your initial comparison of back play wasn't particularly accurate. What exactly is the difference, Katzilla? I'm genuinely confused as to what you're suggesting about the Reds and the Hurricanes. Are you suggesting that intent is enough? I thought your initial point was that technique was the key?
katzilla
Roar Guru
Yet again you make mention of a team thats no where near the top. Who even mentioned the Force? First ive heard the 'Saviours' line also. Whats with making stuff up tonight? First its Waratahs in first now its that the Force are the Messiahs? Whilst the Chiefs and Hurricanes haven't always been consistent the effort has been there from the start to put on more then just a shovel it wide. Neither teams fundamental game plan has changed, merely the application. The Reds for all their woeful play have provided some of the most exhilarating backline play in this comp when it clicks. And therein lies the difference. Some try and fail until it clicks which surely it must, some are just happy with a moderate attack plan.
Derm
Roar Guru
Quite. Backline play in both comps could improve/change. Next season will see a difference.
Knives Out
Guest
Katzilla, I have also seen some truly awful stuff from the Force - the new 'saviours' of Australian rugby, the Reds. the Bulls, the Sharks etc. You made a broad statement that is undermined by the fact that no team plays perfect rugby and no back line in the Super torunament has been consistently excellent - see the Chiefs and the Hurricanes. And certainly there isn't this generic excellence that exists in Super rugby. It simply isn't realistic and the backline play in this Super tournament hasn't been as good as it could be.
katzilla
Roar Guru
'Some of the backline play this tournament has been horrible, from the top (Waratahs) to the bottom (Cheetahs).' KO you've gone and picked out the two worst teams as an example, and somehow you've managed to alter the Super 14 table to to put the Wobblietahs at the top. The magic of the Interweb huh? How can you claim to know the a teams backline play has been horrible when you obviously haven't watched a game since round 4? That was when the Waratahs were on top or thereabouts. Top team is the Hurricanes, next is the Chiefs. How have their backlines been lately? I don't mean to turn this into a NH vs SH thing but the back play could do with some work, much like various areas need work here in the south. Lineouts for us in NZ for one. And some teams set pieces all over have been rubbish. Don't get defensive, i wasn't having a go, just an observation. By the way, those weren't the first games i've seen of any of the 4 semifinalists, i've watched a few games from the various leagues this year (Heres a plug for Setanta), and my observation still stands. The backline play hasn't been as good as it could be.
Derm
Roar Guru
Must have been something I said. Hopefully. Cos if it isn't I'm gonna get paranoid.
D Rock
Guest
Why has the thread turned into a pothale vs 'anyone else who happens to have an opinion' match?