With Johns' axing, Channel Nine finally gets it right

The biggest problem with the Footy Show is - too much Show, not enough Footy. Over the years it's turned into a poor reproduction of Hey Hey it's Saturday, minus Ozzie Ostrich.

Tifosi: "This alleged crime is far worse than what the sharks did." Considering the girl was three years short of the legal age of consent, sixteen, oh dear, he's in trouble, even though he was only 18 at the time. Hope he knows a good lawyer. "NEW Sydney FC signing Seb Ryall has been charged with engaging in a sexual act with a girl of 13 and banned from playing football until September 3. The criminal charge arises out of an alleged incident that took place in Ryall's hometown of Sydney in late January 2008. At the time the player was 18 years old and living in St Kilda, playing for Melbourne Victory."

ok this is interesting http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/103293,seb-ryall-on-child-sex-charge.aspx I wonder if the media will now go after this guy, who is alleged to have abused a minor. Or because he is an unknown( i follow football and i have never heard about him) they wont care. This alleged crime is far worse than what the sharks did.

If anyone doubts the NRL intention to stamp this sort of thing out and change the culture,they should have watched and listened to the embattled CEO Gallop,spell it out in spades. 'Anyone who thinks this is acceptable is not welcome to play our game."The educational efforts of the game to get the message through to young players,has just been endorsed on a radio news by Kate Ellis Fed Min for Sport and the NSW min of sport. As soon as someone mentions this sort of abomination also happens in society and in other codes at times,you are called an apologist.How about a realist. When the rape crise centre lady states it happens elsewhere and in other codes,is she an apologist for Johns.She gave him a serve,after the interview for not stating to other players"it is not acceptable".. Johns is taking the rap and paying the biggest price for others within the code ATT .He has become the lightning rod for not only rl but other codes(plural) to get their acts together.In 3 words "respect for women". Then we get a dumb comment he dragged his wife along. As Gould stated" he was in such a state he was concerned for his health"meaning doing harm to oneself.His devastated wife was there to bravely offer support. Try getting up on TV and tell millions on national TV,with a tearful wife by your side,you stuffed up big time in a demeaning incident to a woman,losing a lucrative career,and being forever known for the incident,by anyone who sees him in public.

Its funny how the term "John apologists" is used. The thing I find sad is those of you who are quick to bag Johns are just a bigoted and narrowminded as the people you purport to be against. Thats always the problem with emotive topics that are based on opinion/morality rather than law or even logic. I see the venom used in the language by some on here, and all I feel is sadness. The anti-Johns brigade are relying on nothing more than personal opinion and assumptions. Lets launch an inquisition shall we, let the puritanical fires burn them all....... And Im sure I will be shouted down as a "Johns Apologist". If you have read my previous posts, you can see that Im not. Its easy to bag someone hiding behind a computer screen, which allows us a degree of honesty while expressing it, and I think most people here have done it well. I just dont think hysteria and emotion should be prevelent when judging people.

Redb, If you noticed i did say RL had a image problems towards women as did society. But what I'm trying to say is today there is a much higher focus on our actions morally than ever before. I know more about the misdemeanours of a Cousins, Ablett, Carey or even those 2 magpie players who lied about the car accident than I do about their AFL prowess. I sure you would not have to dig too hard to fine some misdemeanours of players in the EPL or footballers around the world. there is alot of women who also know more about Warnie & Symonds for the off- field incidents than anything they achieved on the field. So not sure why you heading down this road about RL players. As for society, being more knowledgeable, our views of the wold has changed, as I said, is this a good or a bad thing. We have come to learn that whatever your gender preference is not to scorn at, or that infildelity whether it be the guy down the street or the president of the biggest economy in the world is not accepted. We have also learned that Group sex is not morally accepted for percieved sporting role models, nor is sleeping with your teamate's wife or glassing your girlfriend, nor taking drugs & running from the police after an accident. This does not mean it not happen 30-40 years ago, it was just not reported as readily.

Simone Thurtell (ABC radio) made a very observant point on 702 Drive yesterday...despite all the hysteria of the right and wrong of the Cronulla incident and Matty Johns' sacking, and maybe we are all missing the point... this isn't actually what the documentary was about. Its about the cover up of these type of incidents time after time by League in this instance, and by all the other codes at various times as well...if its "condoned" by the cover ups it will never end. Matty Johns has been the fall guy because of his high profile, and for those of you who think it doesn't happen elsewhere, think again. I have a friend who was sacked from a major corporation for streaking at 2am in a hotel corridor outside their room, wearing a mask. Only work colleagues saw them, but it was enough.

Sheek - my comments weren't supposed to sound legalistic - they were supposed to come across as coldly objective. There are similarities though I guess! There are two more points I want to add to my earlier post. 9. with the other players climbing through the window, the obvious assumption is that the group thing was premeditated thing. I'd like to know if Johns was part of the planning and if not him, then who? 10. Let's assume what the co-worker said about her bragging about it later is true and let's assume the actual sex acts (but not the other guys watching and masturbating and etc) is true, which is the best case scenario for the players. Think through ther situation. The girl is drunk and toey, with two hunky guys. Others come in and through a combination of bravado, fear and naiveté, she invites a few others to do likewise. In the cold light of day the next morning, the girl inevitably regrets what she's done. Several days later, again out of bravado but now self-loathing as well, she brags to a co-worker. None of this changes the facts that (a) the other guys shoud not have come in and (b) the other guys should not have participated. Normal moral standards require people to draw the line. If a girl has a one-nighter (with one guy), and regrets it the next day, then she's only got herself to blame. But you Johns apologists have to see the difference, as I said earlier, the unequal bargaining positions. The guys simply should not have put her in that position. If you can't see this, it can't be discussed further. As for the others who stood masturbating and touched her with their penis, that borders on homosexual behaviour. Regardless, it's very wrong and by any standards, odd and blatantly degrading for the girl.

Robbos, one major risk for RL is they think Johns is right she was consenting and bragged about it - Phew... no problem. Johns had sex with a 19ya and then let 10 others come along for the ride - illegal not in his case, but morally most people would not engage in group sex with 11 other blokes banging a young girl whilst the rest wanked themselves. This is about image perception. I also disagree that society has not changed. For example: gays were never known about in the workplace except maybe the real camp ones even 10 year ago. Today in our wokrplace we have 2 out of 30 people who are known to be gay (1 female 1 male) they are open about it bring their partners to xmas functions and barely anyone blinks an eye about it. Times have changed. Redb

The appalling incident happened 7 years ago not 7 months,that(the time factor) in itself doesn't detract from the ugly incident.However since that time through the junior squads tutoring mentoring and educational programmes have been in place for a few year(Jason Stevens was one involved ).The change in culture is not going to happen overnight,but is happening slowly. Maxine McHugh? made a stupid comment by saying ,by saying they(NRL) have these educational programmes in place now and they are not working.Maxine the incident happend in 02 not 09.No wonder she has made no impression in parliament. One can argue whether the other players involved should come forward,just about all are not at the Sharks now.IMO and I have heard it from others it tends to prolong the agony for more people involved,and achieve little more other than more hurt. Plus we now have a female work associate of the poor lass saying "on TV (with her name underneath) "she bragged about it for the next 4 days",then went to the police.Should the ABC mention that also now ? I don't know. That doesn't make the unseemly acts right,but Phil Gould hit the nail on the head stating"it was a sledgehammer on the back of the head and wake up call to the game"he also stated it was areality check for all young people(ie not just rl players) ,that what you may consider fun at the time can end in tears. I wish they would get an interview with that Karen lady of the rape crisis centre.She would have some very interesting things to say about sexual abuse of women involving males from all and some prestigious schools,and in fact hinted as such on a forum after the CH incident. The one common denominator in most of these incidents is alcohol.If I were in charge of this country I would have referendum to reduce the alcoholic content of the products. onside.Ah the schoolies week,where all sorts of decent and sometimes downright immoral acts happen year after year.Parents make sure some of their kids are supplied with grog and a great number ensure they have plenty of condoms. Would also be a breeding ground ,for what then follows with footballers. How would I know what happens, had a daughter atttend .

I too agree with Westy. Society hasn't changed, it's just that thru the media the society standards has changed. 40 years ago the general public didn't know Rock Hudson was gay, I remember being in England where the front page of the Sun was Elton John's ex lover talking about their gay sex life with Cocaine. JFK's alleged affair with Marilyn Munroe was a quiet rumour & even glorfied, but Bill Clinton's alleged affair with Monica, the world was mortified. These days there is so much medium for the media, we have internet, 24 hour TV, we have news 24/7, they need to fll it with something, we now know alot more than we did back then, is this a good thing or a bad thing? I do not condone what Johns did, but I can tell you I've done things I'm not too proud of in my time. Rugby league does have an image problem with attitude towards women, but then I also feel society does.

Westy theres always schoolies week for youngsters to fine tune social mores

Westy = totally agree. This hysteria over Johns is out of control. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

BigAl. No question they would have been coached on 100% of that interview - right down to what the have on, how to sit etc etc.

The thing that amazes me now is that Johns – poor crumpled soul that he is, not only drags his own sorry arse on to live Ch. 9 tabloid television, but also his own poor innocent and obviously distraught wife as well - to . . . provide clarification ??!!. Surely there are plenty more dignified and neutral ways and forums to do this. For mine, this just shows that … Johns is not the smartest kid on the block and/or is being terribly advised; Sections of the media are milking this for all that its worth; Johns still hasn’t learned how to treat women !

I may be mistaken but I believe the SMH editorialised on Wednesday that it reported on all incidents alluded to by 4 Corners at the time of their occurrence. The police at the time of these incidents investigated and found insufficient evidence to support the laying of charges. Events of recent days have all been in reaction to a recorded interview relaying the (admittedly harrowing) tale of the girl involved in the Christchurch incident. I am somewhat disturbed that the near hysteria and destruction of someones career is not a reaction to a sexual assault allegations and police investigation but to a television show seven years after the event. I do not deny the woman (not girl) involved the right to speak out, even anonamously, about how the event affected her but if that is the threshold which must be passed for moralising en masse and arbitrary sackings to occur then as a society we tread a fine line. I find many of the reactions particularly hypocritical if, as the SMH stated, the allegations were public seven years ago. This affair sort of reminds me of a scene from the movie "Wag The Dog" where the opposing Presidential Candidate appears on television and declares "the War in [East European State] is over" and the protagonists argue whether that is true and DeNiros character says that the war was indeed over because someone had stated as such on TV. It seems as though this episode is being played out in a parallel universe where something doesn't really happen until it happens on TV. The media can be a very powerful force for good but in this case it has done nothing except provoke a wave of overreaction that is destructive to all, including the victim of an alleged assault. If anyone can find the SMH editorial from 13th May on this subject can they please post a link. It also has as a general theme that post 2004 the NRL has instituted a strong education campaign and major cultural change. It thinks that while there have been incidents since they cannot be linked to represent a culture of mistreatment of women. A lone voice of reason in a sea of hysteria.

Jameswm, Just want to commend you for the concise comments you've made, giving a legal perspective. They have provided clarity in what is a highly emotive topic.

There were more spectators at the Cronulla group sex session than appears to attend their local games. its ajoke or could it be a new crowd puller?

is there a possiblity that said CO-WORKER is receiving a payment from channel nine for her story? which would in fact muddy the waters further??????

Did anyone see the short news segment where there were players in a lecture theater in the background and the voice over was talking about the education packages that the players were receiving. They then interviewed a player and he basically said that this issue would go away if they just stopped "referring females as sluts and give them money for a taxi at the end of the night". Who was that player? I wonder if that comment was before or after the training. He just doesn't get it.