Barbarians’ Matt Giteau scores the first try against South Africa – AP Photo/Tom Hevezi
For those relatively new to the game of rugby (most people living south-west of Goulburn), the concept of the Barbarians is an interesting one. They have a wonderful history, far longer than one might initially think.
And the sentiments behind the concept are quite noble – right up there with the five rings (the brotherhood of man, peace to the world, and so on).
But despite the obvious merit, I am starting to wonder whether there is a place for the Baa-Baas in the modern era.
On the one hand we have both the chivalry in the off-field behaviour demanded of all those who are honoured with an invitation to partake, tied with the desire to play entertaining, running rugby on the field (the latter aspect perhaps reminding us of the raison d’etre of the Harlem Globetrotters).
On the other hand, we have the likelihood of the Barbarians coming up against teams who come ready to play, and have little interest in such romantic notions as bringing joy to the masses.
This is what happened a few days ago when Australia inflicted the worst ever defeat on the Barbarians.
Listening to the game on the radio, it was patently clear that one team had a bigger hunger for the contest than the other team.
And of course that would be the case!
How can a team cobbled together with the express purpose of entertaining be competitive against a full national team where the players are playing for spots in that team? (and in some cases, for their professional careers)
Impossible.
The outcome is known before the game even begins. That mismatch in objectives will always produce a lop sided game.
I’m afraid to say that in the modern era, the Baa-Baas are at risk of becoming a parody of what was once a wonderful and noble concept.
Bob McGregor
Guest
Have to say I've admired the spirit of Baa Baa Rugby for decades and the spectacle of games against visiting Sthn Hemisphere teams at the end of the tour. But this was the first I've been able to attend and I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it. Sure, some of the Baa Baa greats on display were on the verge of retirement but I didn't see any lack of application from the visitors. I marvelled at the wonderful covering tackle by Whitaker to stop a certain try mid first half and to observe his crisp long passes to returning AB 5/8 or centre Luke McAlister - who by the way went straight into the AB side to play France. Obviously, without Elsom, jet lagged effects set in mid second half and they compounded, resulting in the final score blowing out. But rather than criticising the Baa Baas, I would prefer to to heap some well earned praise on the up and coming Wallabies. Deans has them firing well and we could be observing the evolution of the next great Wallaby side. Expecting some negative responses for making such a statement, I should point out I've always been a 'glass half full' type of guy. As the song says "accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative". The Test against Italy should allow us see the progress the team has made since Padua late last year. I believe to improvement will continue.
Chris Gordon
Guest
Still you have to admire his determination... sticking steadfast to a totally inaccurate guess in the face of proof. It's always enlighteningf when city folk tell us what it's like in the bush.
Mark
Guest
Pippinu - You lose I'm afriad. Sheek has already won the 'wind-up of the week' award. Congrats on getting 2nd place though.
Pippinu
Roar Guru
Captain This is starting to get a bit wearisome, but if I say south-west of Goulburn, I'm clearly not including Goulburn in that equation. But did I unintentionally capture the ACT in my rough and ready geography, yes, that's an error on my part, I didn't mean to include the ACT (which I see as a very strong rugby area, perhaps the strongest in the land on a per capita basis). Clearly, my mental map of where the Big Merino was exactly went a bit askew (do they still have a big merino?) - I was probably half-imagining that Goulburn was where Yass actually is. If you want to put the point of no return somewhere further down the highway at the Dog on the Tuckerbox - then I'm quite comfortable with that as well (or maybe at the submarine?)
Mike
Guest
If "bulk" means greater than 50%, then the bulk of people anywhere in the world do not follow rugby to any great extent. I am not even sure that soccer would make that cut and Rugby certainly doesn't. What I find very encouraging is the news from country NSW, where Rugby appears to be undergoing a resurgence. Thanks Chris and others for the info.
Captain Nemo
Guest
I would say Goulbourn is right in the middle of rugby territory, esp being just up the road from Bowral with the Bowral Blacks having a very long and strong rugby heritage. Schoolboy league and union (Chev college) is strong around that area also heading across to Yass and southwest of Goulburn is Crookwell which is a rugby town. from there you have Queenbeyan which is full of league (Mungo) fans then the ACT is mixed. So in this case I think you are a little up the track Pip.Try south/ southwest of the ACT
Pippinu
Roar Guru
Chris What you have said does not contradict my contention in any way, shape or form. So I will repeat it one more time, just in case you didn't pick it all up the first time: ....the bulk of people south-west of Goulburn do not follow rugby to any great extent
MarkH
Guest
Poor ol Baa Baas. Wrong time of year. Everyone is touring, no players are avaliable. Lions in SA, France coming here and NZ, Argies playing Eng, Ire and Wales in the USA. I recon they played within the spirit. It was a great game to practice the lines and get the cobwebs off. SBW played ok, given experience, he'll come on well.
Chris Gordon
Guest
Pippinu said : "I remain happy to contend that the bulk of people south-west of Goulburn do not follow rugby to any great extent." You can contend that unicorns exist and you might as well, it has equal merit to your contention the bulk of people south-west of Goulburn do not follow rugby to any great extent. If you bothered to check into it, rather than throw out glib opinion dressed as fact, you'd know Goulburn is the oldest rugby club in country Australia; you'd know Goulburn supplied the first ever country player to a state side; you'd know Goulburn are back to back premiers in the local Monaro competition which consists of mostly teams to their south-west; you'd know numbers and interest still flourishes in the country (junior rugby numbers in this region are at an all time high) and you might even know that there is life beyond Campbelltown.
Matt (Gagger)
Guest
I'm with Melon, Bay35 and The Chinaman in being astounded by the short memories and dissatisfaction. Don't underestimate what the BaaBaas had done just a week before against what was more than an England 2nd XV. They'd then got on a 24hr flight to play the very next weekend with the obligatory pissing it up in between. This was a big ask, so the timing aspect was important here in another way. As it was, Elsom not injured, a slightly different starting line-up and SBW scoring that try in the second minute, and we could have seen a very different game. The BaaBaas are all about momentum and the Wallabies didn't give them any, (which the home team isn't obliged to).
Mike
Guest
I can’t agree with the Brit commentators who complain about Wallabies not throwing the ball around – sorry, but no-one who was there can say that with a straight face! As for intensity, no-one yet knows how good this Wallabies side is. Deans’ declared intention is to produce a side that will not just contest the 3N, but win it. We won’t know until this team measures itself against ABs and Boks if they are that good, but if they are then the Baa Baas’ were always going to struggle. The SFS was packed, there was a good TV audience. The crowd seemed happy, and I spoke to a few who were Leaguies just come out to see SBW, and they seemed impressed with rugby. If bringing the Barbarians out to get pounded at the start of a season helps make some converts, and makes some money, then who cares if it was a mismatch? Those who don't want to watch it don't have to.
Pippinu
Roar Guru
Captain Nemo - thanks for the follow up comments. You remind me if something I was thinking of throwing into the original article - but I couldn't get the words together to express it well enough, and there was a risk that it would be taken the wrong way. Ordinarily, in the broader sporting world, these sorts of contests can have an element of contrivance about it. But this is where the baa-baas are quite different - because of the very long history, it does not carry that air of contrivance at all. So that is actually a very strong argument for keeping the concept, because there are so many positives attached to the concept. To create something similar now, from scratch for example, would carry the air of contrivance for a very long time. Let me give you one such example. After the 1982 World Cup (soccer), the Americans hosted a Europe vs the Rest of the World game. It sounded a reasonable concept, except that not only did half th European team come from one country (Italy, the then champions), but they mostly came from the one team (Juve). In the meantime, the Rest of the World included a sprinkling of Brazilians, and then a stack of players playing in the now defunct US soccer league (in the days of the New York Cosmos). In other words - it smacked of contrivance - as did the result, with the Europeans coming back from 2-0 to win 3-2 after the Cameroon goalie fumbled the ball into his own net very late in the game. The Baa-baas does not carry this air of contrivance - which is a positive in an era when it's very easy for that to happen. But equally, we can't have situations where there is a mismatch in objectives amongst the two teams. And as you know, if there is a big gap in mental preparedness at this level of rugby - that's almost as significant as having a massive physical advantage.
Captain Nemo
Guest
pip, i think you put a good arguement forward. I suppose rugby is the newest of the professional codes and like any sport, the guys running it are looking at the big picture from the inside. Sometimes it takes someone who is unbiased looking in from the outside to put forward a balanced view. In this case i think you have. I went to the game on saturday night with absolutely no expectations other than to see a few great rugby players from a few years back when I had a little more hair ( I am receding fast!!) who I admired greatly (Justin Marshall, Serge Betsen, Chris Jack and Martin Corry)coming up against kids like Adam Ashley-Cooper, Lachie Turner, Drew Mitchell, Berrick Barnes, James o'conner, Luke Burgess etc. Justin Marshall (2nd most capped All Black) still had flashes of his brilliant past with his smooth passing style and I hope that kids like Luke Burgess could sit down after the game and have a chat because they would learn a thing or 2 from him. Watching Marshall feed the ball along the backline took me back a bit.To see Chris Whittaker play his last ever game of rugby was also worth going as I was there the day he made his first grade debut with the wicks and the way the game is structured these days, I am not sure if any of the kids in the Wallabies squad makes a 1st grade debut (thats another story). My opinion is probably not typical because I am happy to watch petersham play in the Sydney Subbys.
Pippinu
Roar Guru
Leftie I mentioned in the article that I had listened to the game on the radio - so I missed out on everything you have mentioned (as you probably already knew). Do my comments lose somewhat from this being the case? Yes, I would agree that they do to a certain extent. But is there a general theme here that merits at least a bit of discussion and investigation? Definitely. I've already mentioned the great history behind the concept of the baa-baas, but it occurred to me whether there was a place for it in the modern era - and I think that remains a fair enough question. Many are split - as I would have expected. Many have actually made the point about timing - which is an excellent point, and no doubt the promoters will keep that in mind for next time. Personally, I like most things with a long history and that have a bit about it that continues off the field (but some on this thread have been quite cynical about that element!) ps my original title was a bland: The Baa-baas in the Modern Era - far less emotive and negative I'm sure you would agree!!
Captain Nemo
Guest
I thought Jerry collins was over it by about half way through the second half. looked like he was looking forward to a cold beer at about the 60 minute mark.
sheek
Guest
AndyS, I stand corrected. I think that should read - "the first time the Babas have played a top 10 international side outside of the northern hemisphere". But I could be wrong again! I must admit I'm going more on memory here than fact.
Worlds Biggest
Guest
I was at the game and really enjoyed it, Wallabies looked sharp for the first time in there opening campaign in a long time. Yes the Baa Baa's were disappointing, somewhat of a rugby contiki tour for the Northern Hemisphere players. The Baa Baa concept works in there Northern Hemisphere season - refer to last years game at Wembley. However with them touring down under it certainly reaked of the boys on the p*ss all week as Jerry Collins put it.
Who Needs Melon
Guest
sheek, "Maybe some of the players who are invited to play for the Babas need to be reminded of what a great honour it is." Fair call. I'd be surprised if they aren't reminded as such already. But as an additional reminder, perhaps presentation of the jerseys by an "old Barbarian" might be a nice touch. "That said, it is also incumbent on the authorities to ensure the team is given every opportunity to display its best, which I don’t think was the case last week." Another fair call. But in the lead up to the game all about the place, including this site, all you heard was excited anticipation. I can't remember BEFORE the game anyone saying that the concept was finished or that the Barbarians were being hard done by and weren't being given the opportunity to play their best. If anything I heard that the Barbarians had an advantage because they had played a lead up game! Now that they didn't do too well, suddenly we've all got 20-20 hindsight.
Captain Nemo
Guest
On the light side, I did enjoy the Sydney Subbys Props sprint race at half time. "sprint being an exageration" About 6 props jumped the gun, with some bloke from campbelltown winning the race and scoring 4 tickets to the Bledisloe for the effort. Good laugh
AndyS
Guest
Perhaps the aberation was the touring element. Looking at the BaaBaas site, the overseas tours they list are: Canada in 1957 South Africa in 1958 South Africa in 1969 Canada in 1976 Former Soviet Union in 1992 Zimbabwe in 1994 Japan in 1996 Italy in 1997 Argentina in 1998 Germany in 2000 Interesting to note that they have generally toured to take rugby to places that struggle to see regular competition, not to take on established teams at home (as do the Lions). Maybe that contributed to the party atmosphere, as did a significant number of expat players returning "home". I have to say it did feel odd to watch the BaaBaas play the Wallabies in Australia, rather than at the end of a NH tour. You certainly see a lot more focus from a Barbarian team playing in Europe, comprising of European based players. You'd expect similar focus from a team drawn from SH based players, playing (say) France at the end of their June tour. But bringing them here....?