Springboks springing into IRB pole position

KO - the england streak included 14 games up until a small blip against France in Marseille where Woodward fielded a largely reserve side. After this they won another 10 games on the trot before Ireland kicked off the descent into the abyss at Twickenham

I was going more on people I've met as well as the written word, but thanks, Greg. You could be on to something there.

This arrogant NATION idea ? Jews were arrogant ? Germans ? Arrogant ! Jap's... yeah, they're arrogant ! Right ? The Brazilians reckon the Argentinians are super arrogant ! Moroccans think the Algerians are arrogant ! The Palestinians reckon the Israeli's are arrogant ! The Egyptians claim the Libyans are arrogant ! Yanks arrogant, Aussies arrogant, Italians, Turks, Micks, Macks etc, etc, etc THEN YOU ASK - go across the border of any of these countries ... and EXACTLY the opposite is claimed ! The South Africans you claim are arrogant are that way in the global perception because for DECADES and DECADES South Africa was associated with anything and everything BAD. South Africa wasn't a good place to settle if you were en route to Oz or Nz... no a savage place ! South Africa was filled with death, plagues, misery, hostile locals and wars. South Africa was the enemy of the EMPIRE ! The Boer War ! South Africa was the home of RACISM ! South Africa is EVIL !!!! You've got mixed emotions based on a history of info feed to you KO ... and unfortunately just because you're backed up by many Billions of others - who had the same load of bollix feed to them... doesn't make South Africans ARROGANT ! South Africans are NOT arrogant - you little insignificant twerp who doesn't deserve my attention ! Oxygen thief ! (the last bit's a tad ironic)

Ivan is the South African Hemjay! My word I have heard some nonsense on "The Roar" at times but Ivan can rightly claim to be the World Champion at talking nonsense. Ivan - I suggest that you visit www.pickandgo.info and inform yourself of some facts before you make ridiculous claims.

Well said, Rusty and all fair points. That WC feeling in England irritated me, but I think the difference is that to the English it was a genuine surprise, but to the SA (And I may well be completely wrong here.) success is deemed their birthright and hence failure is ignored as a temporary blip. The record winning streak side was a great side, regardless. NB. I think that 00-03 English side won 17 games on the spin. Might be wrong. Swords Out, if the media and blogging fans spend their time bad mouthing European rugby with comments comparing the Lions to a Russian side then I have no other evidence to suggest that isn't the norm. If you asked any fans in the world 'Is SA considered an arrogant rugby nation?', I think we both know the answer.

"Pity you had to resort to crying to the citings commission to get the boks fullback removed before the game. But well done then" I watched that game and England were by far the superior side. The forwards were physically and technically better than the Boks and were lucky that they got three warnings without receiving a yellow card. In the end it took a spear tackle to earn them a card (which I thought was harsh, but judging by the amount of reds in the competition, it seems like they were told to stamp down on such instances). Anyway, there was quite a lot of talent in that England side, despite not playing particularly well in the first-half.

KO Wont deny that the Boks havent been consistently good over the last decade but ten years is a long time and as you know rugby is very cycical in nature. So to say there hasnt been a great side is a bit far fetched. I would say the Bok team post Lions tour of '97-98 was a team to be admired. I say post, as although being favourites they couldnt kick to win a series they should have. Achievements may not have included a World Cup win but a 17 match winning streak, including a whitewash of its tri-nations partners is pretty good going. P 25, W 19, L6 = 76% Beaten in this period: Australia x 3 (2 home & 1 away) Italy x 1 (away) France x 2 (away) England x2 (home & away) Scotland x 2 (away) Ireland x 3 (2 home & 1 away) Wales x 2 (home & away) New Zealand x 2 (home & away) Other teams I greatly admired/respectfuly loathed -'05-'06 ABs: Lions series win, 15 game streak, 2 Tri Nations, undefeated NH tours. Only lost 2 games in 2 years. The Dan Carter & McCaw era...and the rest. If there hadnt been the odd blip against the Boks they would have to have been the greatest of all time. Arguably they still are.(P25, W 23, L2) 92% -'02-'03 England: Great all round team, 14 game streak, world cup, 6 nations only NH team to beat all SH teams in a calendar year (from memory). Unbeleivable pack, Wilkinson pulling the strings but solid across the park. (P 26, W 24, L 2) 92.3% - '98-'00 Wallabies: Eales, Horan. World Cup, Bledisloe reclaim, 3 Nations (P 36, W 30, L6) 83.3% - '95-97 ABs: Fitzy, Brooke, Little, Lomu. Seris win in SA, reclaim of the Bledisloe (P 34, W 30, L3, D1) 88.2% Im not old enough to remember the earlier Welsh teams - that and TV was a bit scarce in the Republic. Just realised that we are in 2009 and that would discount the '97-98 Boks..lol oh well. I would say that post '98 we hit the downward spiral to hit rock bottom in '03 (52.5% win rate) and then gradually on the up since then (67.2%). Winning a second 3 nations and world cup along the way. It would look like we are on the rise and on the way back to the top echelons but like stock previous performances are no indicator for future gain/glory. Understand that it gets nauseating to hear SA supporters harping on about world cup wins and how we are number one (?)etc etc. Hell, even I do but I felt the same living in the UK after England had triumphed. For the general fan thats all they know and remember but to paint everyone with the same brush is a bit over the top. There are plenty of fairweather ravers out there but I think you will find there are plenty of us "Saffas" that are knowledgable and only mildly subjective when its comes this sport. The same can be applied to any country and I have shared drinks and banter in the terraces of Twickenham, Landsdowne rd, Millenium and ANZ stadium with those people. My point is dont generalise as it offends the rest of us and I may be the one offering you a dram on the hip flask at the next cold international

That's refreshing.

To Knives out, how much do you really know about SA supporters? You seem to know a hell of a lot to enable you to display such a dislike for all of us. Did you know that for every idiot that boasts on blogs and forums about how the Boks are the best and will beat this team or that team by so much etc. there are hundreds that don't feel that way, but they just don't post it on blogs? Did you know that there are thousands of fans that are realistic, knowledgeable about rugby and really worried about the Boks' chances against the Lions? I can carry on, but as an adult I have better things to do than this.

'No country has the diversity, the unique record and history of Springbok rugby … it’s one-of-a-kind !' Can't deny that, Greg.

If you think you could have don't a better job at rugby union IN SOUTH AFRICA ... you are very mistaken. Warts and all (and yes there are plenty of warts) their isn't a team in world rugby that competes with South African rugby ! It's UNIQUE, a thing of beauty and if you're older than 50 then the question of the Springboks being the GREATEST is a moot point. I'll give the period from about 1985 onwards (ie 25 years) to New Zealand. During our wars and revolutions (forget about the plagues, droughts and many epidemics)the All Blacks had the luxury of a single-mindedness we could only dream of. Before that, South African rugby wasn't matched by anyone. Importantly - not crowing and talking themselves up like you find when looking at the history of many other countries. Look at rugby history and you see preciously little about South Africa. A quirk of history and not an indication of the unrivaled activity within the rugby world burgeoning in Africa. More importantly, South Africa have given. We've built rugby union in more than a handful of countries including Argentina. The name -'The Lions' is credited to South Africa. Finally, South Africa is a country that defied England. We fought a bloody war and cut the empire down (before getting it in the neck (no thanks to the help of Ireland, Nz & OZ troops). That didn't help us in terms of commonwealth friends and finding fair referee's either.) No country has the diversity, the unique record and history of Springbok rugby ... it's one-of-a-kind !

'England. Pity you had to resort to crying to the citings commission to get the boks fullback removed before the game. But well done then.' Oh, I forgot. You tough Boks love a bit of weak machismo. Flying headbutts, testicle grabbing and forearm smashing anyone?

Look Ivan, this is simple maths. For the past decade SA has not been very good. They have regularly lost away and been rubbish in the 3N. Prior to the WC they were not considered great and yet following a campaign when they did not play one team that was then ranked in the top 5 of the IRB rankings their fans suddenly proclaim their team as superstars. Accordingly, SA fans cannot wait until the 3N because they will win it with ease. Oops... Another wooden spoon beckons. Oh well, there's always the tour of Europe to come. SA scrape past Wales and Scotland and thrash the least experienced, most callow English side ever. That result allied to another thrashing of a hugely depleted Australian side means that the Springboks are great again. I don't think so somehow. Through all the rubbish years SA fans have been just as arrogant as you are now. Nothing changes. All the poor results in the world don't seem to matter to a Springbok fan. 'You take the point out of context though, I am talking about today. and all i keep hearing is yester century this and that.' The WC isn't today. That was 2 years ago. Today is a 3N wooden spoon and some horrific performances on tour. Today is not a WC from 1995 either. The English side of 03 was great because it won away in NZ and Australia in consecutive weekends. It drew a series in SA, won in Argentina, won various 6N titles and won a Grand Slam. Allied to being unbeaten at home for 4 years that was a pretty formidable record. Until a SA team can match that then they are not a great team. The NZ team of 05-07 was great because of their 3N victories, their European tours and ther 3-0 demolition of the Lions. Until a SA team can match that they will not be a great side.

Fair comment. Baby boks beaten, well done England. Pity you had to resort to crying to the citings commission to get the boks fullback removed before the game. But well done then. Defeat graciously accepted. Let's see what happens on Saturday and if the Lions put on a good show in 3 consecutive tests against the boks, ill be back to announce new found respect. You take the point out of context though, I am talking about today. and all i keep hearing is yester century this and that. Kiwis still hold the title of most formiddable. boks take second - 56% win ratio? When is that since ? PS - NZ have not won the WC in the professional game. SA hold the WC ,S14,7s Title - add a lions series and a 3N.... would that make any impression on you or do we need to win 10x what England does to gain half the respect ?

"and today we are Ranked #1..." - Ivan Ivan - I suspect that you've been misled by the headline on this article and its content. Greg's contention that South Africa are now #1 in the IRB rankings is wrong. SA are still in #2 slot. Sorry to burst your bubble.

'Perhaps i was a bit overly zealous in my comments, and yes SA does concede that we have a long road to travel before ever breaking the invincible image of the All black, and i wont contest that.' A long way to go? 7 3N titles and 8 Super titles to be precise and a much much better record in Europe. Two concescutive losses to Ireland and some wallopings from France speak for themselves. 'My point remains, the 6 Nations teams are far off the pace. Yes 2003 England were god, and were able to beat us on many occasions, we were a mess in terms of management and post-apartheid politics.' England beat SA consistently through from 1999 until 2005. And yet here we are again... Politics. Frankly that is a smokescreen for consistent underachievement and nonsensical. England suffered terrible coaching from Andy Robinson and Brian Ashton and yet you will never hear an English fan mention that. And as for the transformation referall, I suggest that you have a look at the three previous WC squads and see how many enforced black players travelled. Scotland, Ireland and Wales will always be behind the 8 ball and yet look how SA has struggled against them in recent years. 'Thank you for your dislike in our nation, its your kind that give us the will to continue to beat you, by record margins.' No. Thank you for your typically astonishing arrogance. Personally, I don't think a winning record of 56% against England and France is much to crow about for an alleged 'Super Power'. Obviously you do. I hope you enjoyed the youth world cup game today. I did. N.B. SA haven't won 2 WCs from 2. The amateur era is a different setting. Their record is 1/1 and 1/3.

Thanks for the education pothale. We will probably see on Saturday what effect the ELV's have had on our players considering that our packs have had to lighten up significantly to become more mobile and increase stamina. All that remains is for the tests to kick off. Good Luck, and may Rugby be the true winner on the day.

You seem to dream about the springboks quite allot. Perhaps i was a bit overly zealous in my comments, and yes SA does concede that we have a long road to travel before ever breaking the invincible image of the All black, and i wont contest that. My point remains, the 6 Nations teams are far off the pace. Yes 2003 England were god, and were able to beat us on many occasions, we were a mess in terms of management and post-apartheid politics. But like the Lions seem to feed off the memories of 97, this is 09... come back to today, and today we are Ranked #1, NZ can easily take that title back in the 3N, but no NH team is going to hold that record for some time to come. Thank you for your dislike in our nation, its your kind that give us the will to continue to beat you, by record margins.

PS The November Internationals are not when the 6 nations sides are at their peak. It's their first games of a new season before the 6 Nations comp starts and the business end of the Heineken Cup for clubs gets going.

Thank you Ivan for illustrating perfectly exactly why so many people worldwide dislike the Springbok and their fans. I must have dreamed up that period of 4 years when England regularly trounced the Boks and when England and France both won and drew on SA soil. I must also have dreamed up the 2003 WC when SA were bounced out at the QF. I must also have dreamed up all those 3N wooden spoons too, and that massive lack of success at Super level and I must definitely have dreamed up the fact that Australia has as good a professional record as SA in the professional era. SA is not a rugby powerhouse. In the insular minds of the Springbok fans it might be. In my eyes they're far, far inferior to NZ and have been for years now.