Wallabies reject Boks claims of milking penalties

Bob Point taken re: the first Lions test however my 2nd point was really aimed at KO, in jest, meaning that he has obviously scrummed against all the SA prop's and hence, by definition, he's played lose head as well as tight head to form an authorative opinion on all the SA props scrumming ability. It's the old born to rule mentality that many of the English can't seem to shake off. He keeps telling readers that Vickery is not picked for his scrumming ablity. If that's the case then what the hell is he picked for in the England side as he isn't the quickest prop around.? His air apparent, Stevens is (was) also, apparently, not a noted scrummager so clearly there's a shortage of strong scrummaging props in England.

brendon, if you were watching he first lions test carefully, you should have noticed that not only was the "beast" boring in, but the boks hooker was closing the gap btween himself and the beast, thus forcing vickary into a gap that wasn't there, thus throwing him off balance, too high or too low, depending on where he chose to aim his hit, and mears was too small to help him remedy this. It's an old, old trick... vickery was mugged, and mears not strong enough to help him... the real change came when vickery came off, the beast was blowing and the lions front row bulked up with a meatier hooker and an on form jones. Mears is a great hooker, but was out weighed in that series. And the reason why props rarely change sides is that the two positions are very different and require different qulaities and body shapes, the prop who can genuinely change sides at top is very, very rare. The greatest was Englands jason Leonard, and even he had a preference. Today even the great Hayman wouldn't go loosehead in a serious game... any more than Botha would go from lock to hook... different postions mate. Close to each other in proximity, but definately not the same.

Not strictly true, Hoy. Baxter collapsed just as he has in most games since then. The difference is that the Aussie pack had the shove on and so received their fair share of the penalties.

Actually Brendan I think you'll find that Mtawarira scrummed Vickery upwards... having come inward. That is illegal. You will also find that Adam Jones pushed Mtawarira about with ease in the 2nd test, and then Vickery did the same in the 3rd test, just as he had done in the Twickenham test, and just as Jones and Murray had done in the Welsh and Scottish tests during the SA European tour. It seems that you need to get over your Mtawarira fixation because Owen Franks had him everywhere, just as Baxter did during the S14. He is a very poor scrummaging prop. Case closed. The funny thing is that the only media outlet to suggest that Mtawarira had the edge over Franks was (drum roll)... that rugby intellect Mark Keohane. What a surprise. N.B. I'm not sure what your last point is but I suggest you investigate the birthplace of Andrew Sheridan, Tim Payne, Phil Vickery, Julian White and David Wilson. I'm pretty sure they're all English.

For some great viewing and comparison of recent tri-nation scrums, have a look at: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/video-justice-4-al/ I'm not affiliated with them at all. :)

Fox, the was an absolute peach of a post - had me in stiches!!!

brendan the Beast did and does bore in. just look at the video. The fact he gets away with it doesn't make it right. It is no different to Baxter packing too low or not binding. Its against the laws of the game and needs to be policed in the same strict way.

Hey, I was pleased to read this headline - it means the Bok's coach is about 3 years behind the times!

Kyle, This is off topic, but referee's at S14 and international level are reviewed in every single game. They get marked, and future appointments are influenced by past performances. It is rigid. And with many of them on match payments, it effects their back-pocket too.

Baxter scrummaged the much vaunted Sheridan into the ground last time we played England. So what. It certainly hasn't improved his ability in many people's eyes has it?

Knives Out Get over it son, the Beast scrummed Vickery into the ground in the first Lions test, something you and your fellow English pal's refuse to admit. The Beast's scrummaging has come along way this season particularly on Saturday night when he had Franks under the cosh as well. Your "authorative" opinion on the scrumming ability of SA props in particular, leads me to the conclusion that you have scrummed against most SA props? Funny that as I can't recall an English prop proping both sides of the English scrum recently??

Let's focus on what we need to do rather than what de Villiers says.

Baxter goes down a lot and his bind may (technically) be inadequate. "The Beast" regularly bores in. I have yet to see a referee really understand the scrum. It looks like another lottery at scrum time this weekend.

Van Der Merwe, I am not sure if you have a bull neck or not, but it is very dangerous in collapsing a scurm, and doing so would put several lives at risk. I wonder at your sarcasm. Do you realise that it might not be deliberate? I can stomach that he is a bad prop (obviously in your opinion), but not that he would knowingly endanger at least 10 people so often by collapsing. As Kyle said above about Smit's scrummaging, does that mean then that Smit is a terrible prop? Or that ihe was ntentionally collapsing as well?

Half of PdV's banter is undeniably gamesmanship. The other half seems to be a cunning plan of his to convince people he's insane so that they underestimate him (and the Boks). While this does frighten Boks fans witless, it synergises well otherwise because PdV never has to pause to check whether his crazy accusations make any sense whatsoever. However he is treading dangerous ground. The way he's going, his pretense of madness might well blossom forth into the real thing. :)

Baxter intentionally collapse?! That's crazy. de Villiers is clearly insane.

I would too.

I doubt that PDV's comments are benign. The penalties against Baxter in NZ are definitely subject to examination. It seemed that Smit was guilty of not holding his bind on several occasions last week resulting in a scrum collapse but was not penalized. The real problem here is lack of consistency by referees. They have become autocratic and not subject to revision/review. Collapsing scrum penalties, among other problem areas, have become a farce and an indelible embarrassment to modern-day rugby. It is time to implement rigid referee evaluations.

The bloke comes up with some odd calls. I wonder if he is actually a mastermind? After the Boks looking shit at the start of last year, and coming last in the 3 nations, they picked it up at home in the last two games (including as shellacking over the wallabies) and kept it up with a good tour of Europe. They definitely look the goods this year. I agree that the Wallers scrum dives often, but it is harldy an attacking play for penalties is it. II would be thinking it is more the Bok's benefit as we get penalised, so really this mad man is making refs doubly aware, but saying we do it to gain attacking penalties, rather than we are a bad scrummaging side? Watch out for De Villiers, Master of Psychology!!!

Have to agree witht he previous comments, the boks coach is out of his depth and a side of the quality of the boks deserve a better mouthpiece... but the Aussie scrum does go down more than it should, and baxter does have a strange way of engaging often with his head and shoulders well below his hips so his momentum is often downwards... not sure how this started but it looks like it is a precaution, and may have been learned after injury. It's as if he is looking for his escape route, and as a result, nose dives... having said that, i am a defender of baxter, the scrum is an 8 man operation, not a one man show, and if the locks split or push too high or low, and flankers get it wrong, the prop is left out to dry. baxter is not the joke many critics suggest, but he does nose dive too often... the boks however, are not the scrummaging force they were, so devilliers is trying to get an edge. I would enjoy watching devilliers scrummage against baxter.... I'd even pay HBO for it.