Boks star Burger back for Tri-Nations tour

I would assume they would prefer independence. But you know what they say about assumption.. Conversely, the Lions tour is a 4 year 'adventure'. There is a difference. I couldn't comment on how the players feel about the political aspect of the Lions name. I suppose they don't really think about it, and plus the Lions is an actual brand now. I don't really understand the various British teams either. Why is the dominant UK league team England but the Olympics you have Team GB? I'm presuming that the league organisers want to keep the Lions tag as special, but that hasn't always been the case so why change now? Likewise the tennis. I don't support Andy Murray.

As for the labelling being offensive apart from my Pape I don't know too many Celts moaning about their combined four year touring squad being Labelled the BRITISH & Irish Lions. or is this an issue kept inhouse?

My Pape is Welsh so I have a fair understanding as I said in a post yesterday he hates being called British. However reality is Scotland may have it's own parliament it is not recognised internationally, in a way it's seen more as a provincial council. I'm also of the understanding that the Sottish pound is not recognised outside of the UK. Look we all understand the identity of the various regions but they are not true countries in the World context. Now in saying that if given the oppurtunity do you think either would take independance? I do find it amusing and confusing that some sporting bodies allow them to compete sperately but others don't

You are correct, QC, but Welsh or Scottish people would find your labelling rather offensive. You may or may not be aware of that, but that's the case. When Joe Calzaghe fought in America an interviewer asked him where he was from. Calzaghe said he was from Wales. The American presenter asked if that was in London. That sort of stuff doesn't go down too well. Incidentally, Scotland has it's own parliament. It's also interesting to note that sledgeandhammer thinks that Wales, Ireland and Scotland hate England with a passion (and he means PASSION) as if he is exclusively informed to comment upon the complicated British relationship. In actuality all of those countries like English fans the most and it is well known that English fans are the best fans post-match to enjoy a drink with. So much for stereotypes, eh.

"The welsh, Irish and Scots really do hate the English with a passion - and I mean passion." That's a bit strong. I like when we play England, and I like English fans best - no moaning or whinging or crying in their beer afterwards. Followed closely by the French for being.... French. Followed by Aussies who are great crack and are good at whinging. :)

There is no doubt about that Sledge however it's more like a tribal thing, sadly for them they are not legally recognised as independant coutries except the Irish. Knives (chuckle) I liked that little dig there re Ireland, Wales and the Wallabies

'Personally I can’t wait until the Autumn internationals - it’s the only time of the year the Wallabies are guaranteed a few wins.' Until they play Wales or Ireland. Know your history.

Countries of the United Kingdom is a term used to describe England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales: these four together form the sovereign state of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. While "countries" is the term commonly used to describe them,[1] because of a lack of a formal British constitution, and owing to a convoluted history of the formation of the United Kingdom, no official appellation exists and so various terms are used. England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales however are not formal subdivisions of the United Kingdom.! As the sovereign state, the United Kingdom as a whole is the entity which is used in intergovernmental organisations, and as the representative member state within the European Union and United Nations, as well as under international law; England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are not themselves listed on the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) list of countries Just from that alone no matter what the locals may say by International law they are not recognized as actual countries, I know full well the intricacies of the Welsh, Scottish and English history and rivalry as my pape is actually Welsh himself and loathes it when anyone calls him British. So yes I can recognise the detest that some harbour for each other and the fact that all are very staunch about their identity however technically they are just all parts of the one state which is the UK the PM for all three is Gordon Brown and the Capital is London. Of course you don't need me to tell you that. The UK I believe was pushing for inclusion in the olympic games for football however withdrew their push once FIFA got wind and said well if you can play together their you can play together at world cups. I'm not disputing the history but the reality is under international law none are recognised as independant countries while commonly referred to us such they are in all aspects justs territories.

Knives out is actually quite right for once (which a priori means he will contradict himself very shortly). The welsh, Irish and Scots really do hate the English with a passion - and I mean passion. From reading the gibing, gammon posts on The Roar you could come to the conclusion that they have a point, but the truth is that not all English people are pompous fools - just the vocal minority I suspect. Personally I can't wait until the Autumn internationals - it's the only time of the year the Wallabies are guaranteed a few wins.

Excuse me? The only thing obvious here is how prudish you and Ivan are being it is very blatantly obvious you think your right and he thinks he's right, the argument is going round and round and round. Just remember guys your not always right it is an OPINION column.

"Plus you can’t hardly call Wales, Scotland and England seperate nations considering they all have the same leader." If you went to Wales or Scotland and said that.....to be honest, I wouldn't like to be you. It's not just embarassing, but ignorant as well. Anyway, what has that got to do with the Lions concept anyway? If say, Wales, Scotland, France and Italy joined togther, the same difficulties would apply.

Seems not may people know their geography and politics around here. Nice work, Hemjay. Obvious as ever.

Is it just me or are two people from oppossing sides very defensive in here? Seems nobody else is allowed an opinion unless your Ivan or Knives Out,

The northern teams? Do you mean the Lions? Changing teams is what the Lions do. Did you not know that? 'Plus you can’t hardly call Wales, Scotland and England seperate nations considering they all have the same leader.' That's an embarrassing comment.

Fact remains Knives is that no matter the scoreline they did beat the Northern teams you can not argue that. as for the ten teams statement that's nobodys choice but the coaches, so in retrospect your own are putting your own at a disadvantage the southern teams do not ask the north to change their team every other day now do they? Plus you can't hardly call Wales, Scotland and England seperate nations considering they all have the same leader.

Eish, rule/norm sorry the English she's not my first language!

Firstly, the Lions tour is the hardest thing a player can do. Why should I have to explain that to you? Why should I have to explain to a 'proper' rugby fan that combining four nations, four different defensive styles, four different attacking styles, four different scrummaging styles, four different lineout styles, four different back row styles and four different kicking styles and combining that in the shortest tour ever, with 10 different xv's in 10 different games, to beating SA at home with two games at altitude is not simply '4 nations put together that could not beat the Boks'. That is one of the most naive and silly comments I have read on this website. Absolute nonsense. Secondly, if you are going to tell me that Australia weren't fortunate to beat Italy and France then I suggest you do some research. If you are also going to tell me that South Africa weren't rather fortunate to beat Wales and Scotland, then again, I suggest that you do some research. As far as I recall Wales were missing 5 first team regulars and could have smashed Australia by a god 15 points but they didn't so woeful is a pretty broad description. That label could only be applied to England.

KO - SA and AUS fortnute? over 4 games, maybe they should all by xlotto tickets?? Sorry mate I don't think you can be that fortunate in winning test matches. face facts that the NH were woeful last year. Highlighted by the fact that 4 nations put together couldnt beat the boks. If the role were reversed and SA NZ and Aus -for what they are worth - combined into a single side, do you think they would be troubled by ANY NH national side. Having said that it is now a new year and the AI will be a different bag of hammers

What rule? Or do you mean the norm? France and Ireland were 2nd and 3rd in the IRB rankings in 2006 and 2007. Argentina were 3rd in 2007 as well I think. Certainly the norm is that the SANZAR nations have been in the top 3 there or thereabouts over the last decade.

Have jdV Fourie and Habana been playing?? I haven't seen them thus far...