Is cheating rife in rugby union?

Quite. The video referee had been watching the game when he was not meant to be. Why even bother responding to such a trollish statement in the first place?!

"This cheating or heightened gamesmanship was reflected in the fact that England, under Sir Clive Woodward, used to take a QC on tour with them to get the team out of the inevitable problems that arouse from forcing officials to bend the rules for them." When the officals bent the rules FOR them? Are you sure? I remember the QC coming in handy when Simon Shaw was sent off in NZ in 2004. He had the red card rescinded becasue the Australian touchjudge had 'bent the rules' (or cheated, in other words) and used the TMO to identify Shaw as the perpetrator of some mild foul play. If you can't even trust the officials not to bend the rules, then who can you trust...?

In view of the media frenzy I suspect the RFU will probably consider a further investigation. I was at a Quins fans session to meet the squad when Mark Evans the CEO said that they were in constant touch with the RFU. They had provided evidence of the internal enquiry as part of an ongoing process. Whether The RFU or Quins had sight of the ERC report of TW's submission before it was released to the press is unknown, but it is normal for interested parties to receive a copy prior to a press release so they can consider a response to the inevitable media frenzy. I suspect we shall hear from both parties very shortly. I just hope from a supporters point of view that the RFU doesn't lose sight of the main objective of driving these practices out of the game; creating an environment which will allow others to come forward without fear of retribution.

My understanding was that, with Williams' testimony just published, the RFU was now considering action over attempts by the club to buy his silence...

It is as simple as this.. English players have been caught and admitted their cheating. Former players for England have admitted doing the same. I only wish the cricketers would have the guts to own up to their cheating.

The RFU have announced that they will be taking no further action against Quins. Without going into the full decision, it appears that some Quins players in an internal review carried out by Quins gave incidences of other clubs where they had previously played, who had been involved in questionable blood substitutions. This review has been passed to the RFU. The RFU have decided after looking at the facts to set up a task force to look at the entire matter of blood substitutions et al. Presumably in the hope that more players and coaches will come forward and question of debatable substitutions can be sorted out once and for all.

Oikee Both codes are growing in the UK, but the bigger and the one creating more interest is union. As Barry McDermott coach to Quins RL admitted on BBC Radio 5, League could learn a lot about marketing from union. Funnily enough I supect when "Bloodgate" has washed through the publicity and associated media coverage will only be positive for union. As they say all "publicity is good publicity". Next year the women's RWC is being held in England and I suspect the gates may well match the recent RLWC. No scoring points but a fact of life.. As you know the last RLWC lost money in the UK and there is talk that the RLWC will retrench to it's heartlands as games eslewhere in the UK where unprofitable. Although I would like to see a Kangaroos v NZ game at the Stoop as hopefully the expat population in London might boost the gate. Unfortunately the gates at Quins and the present problems of Celtic Crusaders are perhaps indicative of the difficulty of spreading League. I suggest it would be sensible if League followers resisted the temption to overbull the progress of League in the UK and instead deal with realities. Pothale Another thought reverting to "bloodgate", Leinster obviously spotted the faking. I would suggest they have had experience of seeing or using themselves such faking opportunities to gain advantage as to how were they sure of their ground when it could only be clearly seen through TV. I would also ask why the ERC reacted post the Quins game, the ERC being based in Dublin, yet did not question the dubious substitutiion for a blood injury of Hipkiss for Dupry in an earlier Heineken Cup between Leicester and Cardiff.

You've only spotted this, KO? As an Englishman? I thought this was fairly obvious in English sporting bodies and events Like the FA? Or The Open? I betcha you'll find the same in cricket, tennis, golf, etc.

Actually no VC. The English [ Quins ] to date have been the only ones stupid enough to be found out.

I only realised this the other day but the RFU is the only body which does not contain the name of its country.

A minor point of correction, VC "Just as Twickers is the only ground in world rugby to constantly encourage its supporters not to boo the kicker," Eh, it's not. For example, there are plenty of grounds in Ireland where this occurs. Thomond Park is famous, if not infamous, for its insistence on silence for the kick. Lansdowne Road, Croke Park, RDS, Donnybrook, Sportsground, Ravenhill, and countless club matches that I have attended exhort similar requests from the crowd and the PA announcer.

It is quite hilarious just how wrong Spiro Zavos is about this. Far from being confined to England, the word from Dean Richards is that this practice actually entered the English game through the dodgy practices of foreign players (doubtless Antipodeans). The New Zealand Herald reports that such behaviour is so common in New Zealand that no one batted an eyelid when they heard about the Quins case, and that they are all absolutely staggered that poor old Deano (ghastly prole though he is) has been banned for three years. It seems that the RFU is the only body in world rugger prepared to take rugby ethics seriously. Just as Twickers is the only ground in world rugby to constantly encourage its supporters not to boo the kicker, so the honourable English are the only chaps prepared to stand up and fight for fair play. The Antipodeans sit on their hands and excuse all manner of shenanigans just so long as their boys win. This is merely yet more proof that international sport is only safe when it is in the hands of the Mother Country.

"But to get the response that Quins fans are thinking about helping pay the fine is, between you and me, quite ordinary." That's a difficult one. if you're a fan of Quins, you wouldn't want your team to go bust. They certainly deserved their punishment, and some Quins fans have reacted very angrily to the actions of the club. But, no-one wants to see their club go under.

I think the Quins biggest crime was getting caught. The evidence is clear that this sort of act isn't confined to the Harlequins, or even to England. There might be many ways of addressing the problem to try and eliminate it, but it still won't eliminate the motive. The only way to do that is to remove the incentive by allowing unlimited substitutions. In other words the reserve bench becomes an interchange bench. But that creates another problem. Teams could have specialists on the bench and it will eventually turn into gridiron. Maybe we could make the amount of substitutions unlimited but prohibit substituted players from gaining points from kicks. Oh no - I think I've just suggested yet another rule. The official rules of the game are soon going to be larger and more complex than EU trade regulations.

Thanks for the response IAN, that last paragraph could also be used for league. League is a faster growing sport in England. The crowds are growing here in oz also after all their bad publicity. But to get the response that Quins fans are thinking about helping pay the fine is, between you and me, quite ordinary. Your in a city of 10 million, whats the rest of them going to think. I am sure league fans would not 'pay for' anything of this magnitude, they would pay with their feet. (out the door) Its very ordinary, and as far as i am concerned, even more now you have told me this, i dont watch lots of rugby, i enjoy world cups and tri nations, somehow now i feel rather let down,, i am sure their are many others who also feel ripped off. Rugby league has quite a few issues, none this big.

Just one comment on discipline and ball control, league defences stand back 10 mtrs and if the ball is passed back then it could around 12 mtrs from catch to defence, union defence stands near advantage line, maybe nothing in real time, but the league players do have more time to control ball. League players also don't have to worry as much about the ball being stripped, one defenders fingernail on the ball, it drops, penalty ( one on ones excluded).

"Now if i make a point on their blog, its like watergate, everyone shuts up or pretends their is no issue" Actually, I would suggest that most people will respond to your points oikee, because there's so much to pick holes in. "The point i am trying to make Pip, these guys come onto the league site at any time their is a negative post" Is there such a thing as a 'theirs' and 'our' blog? You make it sound so elitist, a bad trait of Union, in years gone by. See, they aren't so different after all :)

"but you guys refuse to admit that union has any problems what so ever, except thye rules of your game" Hang on, you contradict yourself here (what a surprise). If Union doesn't think there's any problem with the game, why do some think the rules need changing, suggesting there is something wrong with the game.

"I can also let you know where and why Union will never be as good as league Colin" The typical quote of a League fan, or sorry, that's stereotyping. Rather, a typical oikee quote. The reason I prefer Union is of, well preference, that I see no need to get into a debate right now. League is a fine game, but one which isn't as good as Union, IMO, but I'm sure you disagree. One thing you may wish to consider when viewing the recent scandal in Rugby Union, is the various acts so highly publicised in League recently. Indeed, Harlequins have done wrong, and deserve their punishment, and has been a shocking indiscretion, but I don't think taking the high horse is the right thing to do, when League itself is being tarnished by reckless acts of violence, by stars who youngsters look up to. "Rugby League is the highest disciplined sport i have seen" No it's not, American Football is, even though I don't particularly like the sport. Of course, such debate is subjective and perhaps one for another time (I'm sort of conradicted myself here, but I assume you get my point), but American Football is probably the most disciplined and specialised in the world.

Is perjury, grievous bodily harm and assault child's play?