Is Craig Bellamy our best coach, league or union?

As a New Zealander, I think Deans has the Ozzies in a good position for next years World Cup. The Super 14 performance has been excellent and the mangement of players out of the team like Gregan and the subsequent arrival of Genia has been handled well. Australia have a great knack of building well for World Cups. Here in NZ the problem is that the public want continued success year in and year out. Its the major sport as well so everyone is zeroed in on it. Union's and League's economic problems are the same though (see article -why retaining talent is tougher than buying it) which is why coaches have to be able to play the cards they are dealt. Bellamy and Deans are interesting in that they have come from cultures in which that they had major control (Storm and Crusaders) once you cede control at the next level via selection (NSW and Wallabies) things can get hairy...quickly.

In my eBook NRL 2010 I rated Craig Bellamy and Wayne Bennett both at 9.5/10. I am happy with that at the moment but have no doubt Bellamy will end up number one. I still have clear thoughts of how Bennett out coached his "apprentice" when his team the Broncos beat the Storm 15 to 8 at Telstra Stadium in 2006. How Toni Carroll put the Storms "rudder" Cam Smith into cucko land early on and how he brilliantly he bottled up Greg Inglis so he was not a factor. Bennett has the knack of getting his players to rise like when he assisted to win the World Cup with NZ and his record at the Broncos is 6 Grand Finals for 6 wins. Bellamy's effort at SOO level have been outstanding given his team and importantly who he was playing against. Queensland have for many years boasted the 2 best props but have an International back line that includes a living legend in Lockyer and the best player in the world in Thurston, oh, did I mention Inglis, Slater, Hodges, Folau and Cam Smith?

Ironically, Bellamy's modest State Of Origin record is testament to his greatness: he virtually made the "so good it is frightening" Queensland team. Wayne Bennett has to be classed as a great coach but he still has a dreadful record against Bellamy. Yes, Melbourne has an advantage being a one town team and playing on the smaller Olympic Park but, unlike the Sydney teams, has to play every other game with about 2% crowd support. Hammer, between Slater and Hayne for a try saving one-on-one tackle i'd choose the former every time. Despite his speed and strength Hayne's defence, the 2nd key criterion for a fullback, is poor. He's a bad read and a worse tackler. In the grand final he was shrugged off by Slater himself, Inglis and (the much smaller) Cronk.

What the?

What does nationality have to do with inspiring players? I have never understood the sentiment that a national coach has to have domestic links to the country they are coaching. Players respond to professional and intelligent coaches who ooze the desire to win. Look at Warren Gatland's various successes, and currently Fabio Capello's work with the English football team. If the Welsh and English could be so galvanised by non-domestic coaches then why can't Deans have a similar effect?

Billo, old chap I agree with you completely. See my article at http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/09/24/the-kiwi-influence/. No-one can give the Wallabies the passion to beat NZ other than an Australian. That's not to say Deans can't give other assets to the Wallabies. But he was an All Black. Deep down he might think the ABs are beatable but I don't see how he could possibly crave it as a Wallaby supporter/player could. Cheers Wal

Comparing League to Rugby is comparing Draughts to Chess. The former has no lineouts, no scrums, no mauls, no rucks, no contest for posession at any tackle, other than the act of tackling itself, and an automatic requirement to give the ball back to the opposition after 5 tackles (one way or another). The latter has 15 men in the defence and not 13, is currently dominated by kicking the ball for position after first phase and does not give 20 metres space for the attacking team to run other than at lineouts and deep kicks. To pose the question about Bellany's ability compared to Rugby coaches is as apt as comparing his ability to coach Soccer and AFL. A pointless exercise.

Has Bellamy coach a rugby union team before ? If the answer is no then he is not the best coach of both codes.

I think the Storm need to win on Sunday for Bellamy to go from very good to great, but you've got to respect how he's kept them ticking over in this era of enforced high turnover of players. Though the Storm have a good core of superstars, there are plenty of no-names there as well, and he has brought the erratic Brett Finch in this year without seemingly missing a beat. Andy, I agree with your remarks on Hasler, but his track record is still a little light compared with Bellamy. As for comparisons with Deans, wouldn't really want to compare across competitons and codes, but there are similarities in the consistency of style and performance that the Crusaders showed in the Deans era, and the ruthless and efficient way they executed. I would be interested in any stats on the stability of his squad over that time.

I would say Des Hasler is a better coach then Bellamy, you could make the arguement that he has achieved more with players that were given away by other clubs. Also, Hasler did a good job training his squad to beat leeds in england. Given craig bellamys track record in origin games and getting beaten in a grandfinal 40-0 i find it difficult to say that he is the best coach.

Here we go Apples and Onions ! I watch a lot of League and would concur fully re Craig Bellamy as the best League coach of his generation but as they say comparisons are odius and this one particularly. If it is a succesful Coach thing why not bring Alex Fergusson & Phil Jackson into the discussion as well, as it makes just as much sense not forgetting they are truly great Coaches in even more competitive Sporting Arena's ? Cripes Spiro this is not even good Devil's Advocate stuff.

I am always careful to distinguish between coaching a team for a season (or several seasons) and coaching a team for a one-off match or series. These tasks are different beasts. Taking a team for a long period of time, a coach can work on long-term strategies and can really develop individual players. However for a one-off match or series, a coach can do far less. Strategies have to be kept simple, and selections have to be spot on. Clearly Bellamy is superb as a season-long coach, as shown by the sophistication of the Storm's play, and the way he turns ordinary players into ones who look very good (Ryan Tandy, anyone?). However Bellamy has not yet mastered the different challenges of taking a team for a much shorter period. One might wonder whether it's similar with Deans. I don't know. International rugby is a different beast to Origin league, in that the international rugby season amounts to 12-15 matches per season, which certainly constitutes some sort of a "season". However all these matches do not come in one block, but they are interrupted. So in a real sense Deans does not get the Australian players for a "season". Aside from all this, I feel the biggest problem Deans has with the Wallabies is that he does not have promising enough raw material. Nevertheless one certainly would have expected better from the Wallabies this season.

failure to win several state of origins? so no, not the best coach league or union.

Matt, I think Bellamy is certainly a good coach, but perhaps you are taking a sheltered look at things as well. I believe the field does have a factor in the winning percentage Melbourne have. It is small, and they are used to it, but also it is in Melbourne, a long way from anyone else. Without knowing the stats, I am sure Melbourne have a fairly high win percentage at home compared to other clubs. Bellamy has coached Origin at a time when the QLD team is so good it is frightening. I think the last game when NSW went with a bit of youth made the difference, and next year should be interesting for all involved. Despite the closness of the games, the record says what? 2 from 6? Poor record when you see it like that, but again, doesn't really show how close some games were. Spiro says above that Bellamy has the knack for winning premierships. I guess we will see this weekend whether he has the knack of winning or the knack of losing them. 1 from 3, I wouldn't call a knack for winning. Certainly massive effort to get there four times in a row this year that is for sure. Inglis came in as a fullback, and was probably a better player there than Slater when he started I think. The shift to the wing was because all fullbacks play wing when there is someone else at fullback. The shift to 5/8 was madness I thought. He is the premier centre in the game, there is no doubt. No matter what they say about Lyons, Hodges etc. Inglis is it. Inglis was wasted there so much, that the talk about doing it for the good of the team is rubbish I think. They would have been better with Geyer at 5/8 rather than waste Inglis like that. It really shows with Finch there this year, Inglis is back to his devestating best.

One of the interesting thing about the Storm's play this season has been the playing from depth in the backline. Against an aggressive rush defence the Storm create space by passing deep and accepting some lost ground if the player gets tackled. It worked against the Broncos and it is something teams from either code could look at. Obviously it helps if you have players who are good one on one like Inglis and Slater.

His failure at SOO level leaves him behind Bennett of the current generation of NRL coaches

I sort of agree. Slater has come a long way in defense, but I still can't help but cringe every time he runs it back. This stems from the start of his career when he was known for loose carries. What I will say is that Slater had no right to hold up Tony Carroll, more so from Carroll's fault than Billy's good tackle. All Carroll had to do to score was fall over. What was he thinking driving straight into Billy Slater, over the line?

I would have agreed with you on Slater before; but some of his try savers the last couple of weeks have been sensational; getting under the player to hold the ball up over the line. However, Brett Stewart's copybook cover tackles on Inglis in Origin II last year remain the standard to which all fullbacks should be judged.

Well done Spiro, stirred up things with another let's compare apples with bananas scenario which results in disrespectful comments. Clear evidence that all of us need to pull our heads in a bit. A few commentators above clearly have no idea how much effort, dedication, passion, commitment and skill it takes to coach an NRL team in the first place, let alone get them into the finals, into a grand final, into four of them and actually to win one. To suggest that an "average" coach wins a premiership and coaches State of Origin is foolish. What does an above average coach do? Win 3 premierships out of every four grand finals they make and win 2 SOO series? Most of the NRL coaches in the last decade have achieved that 'on average' haven't they? To suggest that this coach is on his way to be the biggest unhinged boofhead and that this isn't an easy feat with the events of the past 12 months in rugby league? And that the size of the field was why the team has made the GF four times in a row. Spiro, wouldn't you prefer to socialise in more educated circles? By all means suggest that someone else is a better coach than Bellamy and give a reason. But these cheap shots are pathetic. Pull your head in. Show some respect to people who are giving it a go at a level of pressure and competition many of us will never get a chance to experience. If you ever did, you'd change your view pretty quick.

Spiro, this question strikes me as being as easy to answer as Phil Gould musing that Jarryd Hayne was/is the best footballer in Australia IN ANY CODE. I mean, for starters, how do you really measure it?? If it's winning percetnage, then sure, he'd be up there. If it's number of GF appearances, then again, he'd be up there. But then he's "only" won one of those three GFs, so his titles/GF appearances is "only" 33%, which is the same as David Nucifora, for eg. But then I'd hardly consider Nucifora as some kind of supercoach. Is someone like Ewen Mackenzie the rugby equivalent of Brian Smith?? It's an interesting poser, that's for sure..