Ignore Australian rugby history at your peril

Well that's a useful tidbit. :) Although the IRFU (Irish Rugby Football Union) is not as aggressive as its soccer counterpart the FAI in hunting down players of Irish ancestry to wear the green jersey, there has frequently been, and indeed there are, some players in the squad who speak with distinctly non-Irish accents. Tom Court, Isaac Boss and the Easterby brothers are Australian, New Zealander and English by birth but all recent recruits under the "granny rule." Indeed the FAI was so well organised in this regard that it was claimed its acronym stood for Find Another Irishman. So I think a brief memo to the IRFU informing them that a young man called Sheeky living in Sydney (I presume) and born around 2004 has Jack Kyle's bloodlines is in order. No doubt some spies could be told to maintain a watching brief on reports of schools games in years to come for any evidence of some of that vestigial talent. Especially if it is accompanied by some scorching pace, so rare in the Irish gene pool. We could have him yet. :) Just on a pedantic note. It is not the norm for Irish people to be called Norm. I think you'll find that Jack Kyle's brother in law was called Noel Henderson. Apparently he played centre or full back and was not particularly elusive as a runner but was a bone crunching tackler. Way before my time though. That's more information gleaned at the parental knee.

Thanks Jim, I really appreciate your comments. Funny you should mention Jackie Kyle. Dublin Dave knows the following story from prior correspondence. My younger brother, who was a state U/14 100m champion many, many years ago (& runner-up in state U/15s), actually married one of Jackie Kyle's nieces. Unfortunately, the marriage didn't work out, but their 5 year old son is a good Aussie boy, having been born here. Now, if he can combine his father's speed with the extraordinary skills of his Irish great-uncle, who knows what he might be??? (Myself, I missed out on the speed in the family, being a plodding forward). But of course, humans, like horses, don't always follow the genetic pattern. As for the family, we're just appreciative he is a healthy, normal, & as happy kid as we can make him, coming from separated parents. As a byline, Jackie Kyle & his Irish contemporary & centre, Norm Henderson, were brothers-in-law, having married sisters.

Sheek - One of the great things about your article is that you kept contributing. I did see Jackie Kyle play at the SCG.in 1950 and that was something else. Thanks to Dublin Dave to remind me of that. But Sheek I like your perspective on the whole game, keep it up.

公平待遇的酱油瓶子 :-D Sheek, your points are good ones. I didn't actually disagree with you; just stirring the pot a little by pointing out the elephant in the room ;-) As it happens our positions are not mutually exclusive. If we didn't have to compete with RL and AFL then Australian rugby would be of a consistently better standard. AND if Australian rugby was better organised we would also be of a consistently better standard. And if both were true, well then we'd be just about unbeatable :-D Of course I'm a realist. RL and AFL are here to stay. So better organisation it is.

Hi Dave, It did occur to me when penning this piece, & whenever I lament Australian rugby's current woes, it's very tough for countries like Ireland & Scotland, which are blighted by small overall populations, which in turn affects their rugby production. With a population of 21 million, you would think Australia can manage 4 football codes, providing each code is operating at maximum efficiency. On the other hand, you have NZ, which achieves much good in 3 football codes, with only 4 million people. I do think in recent times, Australian rugby's downturn can be partly attributable to those generous, amateur, volunteer coaches leaving the sport for whatever reason. It's been commented on by many the poor basic skills of our leading players. How did this happen is for better minds than mine to explain.

Joh4Canberra (that was 20 years ago, mate!), Yeah, it's true union in SA doesn't have to compete with AF, & NZ only has to compete with RL. Both have to compete with Soccer. However, I will still argue Australian rugby is poorly structured, which is preventing the code from realising its potential, & attracting more younger players in greater numbers.

"Ever wondered why New Zealand and South Africa continue to remain the consistently best rugby nations?" Um, because they don't have to compete with rugby league and AFL as more popular winter sports and because rugby union in those countries is about as popular as Australian rugby league and AFL combined? If you reversed the roles of union and league in Australia so that the union game had the number of players, the juniors and the TV exposure that rugby league currently has in NSW/Qld/ACT and AFL has in the rest of the country Australia would be be consistently better, probably the best in the world. As it is most of the talented athletes who would be good rugby union players end up playing league or AFL. So we trundle along as a minority sport that few people know or care much about.

Thank Goodness!! A non controversial topic. Good Old Sheek! I am all for the teaching of rugby history to the younger generation. Apart from being great fun, there is one useful function it performs, especially for those from smaller countries who only experience success sporadically: it allows you to continue dreaming of a return to good times in the future during bleak periods when your team can't seem to win at all. The great BBC commentator Bill McLaren, always made the point that as a Scottish rugby fan you had to take the rough with the smooth. In particular, he remembered a miserable period in the 1950s when Scotland went several years without winning a game, during which they endured what was then the worst drubbing in history a 44-0 home defeat to South Africa. You could add another 18 points to that with modern scoring values. Yet he got to live through that, see his son in law Alan Lawson score what he always claimed was the best international try ever and see Scotland win two grand Slams in 1984 and 1990, with in the latter case, a former pupil of his (he was a schoolmaster) score the winning try of the deciding match against England at Murrayfield. It surely can't get much better than that! I know where he's coming from. I was brought up to learn at my parents' knees about the exploits of the great Irish team of the 1940s Jack Kyle, Jim McCarthy, Karl Mullen etc and also of the great teams that might have been. The first few years I watched (late 1960s early 1970s) were relatively successful ones for Irish teams. Lansdowne Road was almost impregnable at the time. In fact in the first five years I watched, only England won there in 1971 when a goal kicking machine called Bob Hiller outpointed an Irish team that scored two tries to nil. Those five years also saw South Africa and New Zealand come to town and leave only with drawn games. Such good times don't last for ever and there have been some bleak periods in the interim. None bleaker than the 1990s when Ireland lost to everybody including Samoa, Namibia and Italy, couldn't mount a single win against Scotland or France and couldn't get within an asses roar of any of the Southern Hemisphere teams, with the sole exception of a close call against Australia in the world cup of 1991. Since 2000 things have been better, thanks to a great generatio of players. The point is though, that this generation didn't come down in a shower of rain. They came into an environment where people cared deeply about the game, ran clubs, coached kids, established leagues, raised money, bought tickets and generally kept the show on the road. To do that you have to be able to dream. And it helps if you have iconic images from the past that you believe you can reincarnate in the future. So the exploits of the old guys play a big part in preparing the way for future successful generations. Once you get all that enthusiasm and structure in place, there's nothing wrong with your game that the womb won't fix.

Sheek/Frank - A few points, taking last first. Mannetjies Roux did play in the 2nd Test but was erratic and subsequently dropped. He also toured in 1965. On his good days he was probably great but he often went missing.Gainsford was quality both in 1963 and 1965. The Boks now seem to play that kind of player in the loose forwards eg Spies. Secondly, in the 2nd Test, Hawthorne hurdled a tackled Ellwood to pass inside to me. Engellbrecht remained on his right wing, which left me with an open run. Thirdly , it wasn't so much the lineouts but the inceesant whistle which meant you couldn't build up pressure. To play against that wind in the second half you needed at least 10points start. Lastly, there were a number of players like my twin brother ,Stewart , who were not available. Stew had medical exams. I must have a look at 'Genslin Rugby', Frik Du Preez had enormous support from Northern Transvaal but he was a bit like Roux, who also came from there, his talent came too easily.

Sheek Great memories thanks. Campo was that good.And Horan. And Noddy. These nights I struggle to keep the peepers open , the Tele's 5 x bigger, but the games just not the same That brings us to the article old Rickety has mentioned, because it relates to the rule changes that stuffed the way the game is played. Notably the breakdown....... my pet hate so I have to respond. Mick Cleary in the London Telegraph bemoans the changes that have ruined the game as a spectacle. In the last paragraph he says..................... "Personally I would bring back the ruck. The administrators won't do that citing (wrongly) safety issues............" I think its a must. I was watching France stick it to the AllBlacks, something I would expect to enjoy. It certainly had passion and was hotly contested by both sides, elements of a great game. But I saw what happens if you match the AB's at the breakdown and get away with going up the sides and using so-called "clearing out" to target unsuspecting players off the ball, and generally mucking in. (something that has been ACTUALLY been suggested as a solution) But it was a bloody mess (literally) and there were bodies lying all over each other, sometimes seeming to outnumber the standing. Back to '84.............the only person on the ground was winded or wounded. You got up quickly or copped the consequences. IT WORKED BETTER. THAT WAS CALLED RUGBY. ! BRING BACK RUCKING......................................PLEEEEEEASE

Frank, Saffies that I know (& I don't know that many) always pick Gainsford & Gerber as their best-ever Bok centres, at least going back to the end of WW2. For a second pairing, Mannetjies Roux & Joggie Jansen, who destroyed the ABs in 1970 with their ferocious tackling, would make an excellent backup. I also discovered from Genslin rugby that Mannetjies is Afrikaans for "little man".

Jim, Thank you for your response. Just in case you were wondering why I was asking about the refereeing performance of Piet Myburgh, this is a passage from Max Howell's 'Wallaby Legends': "Danie Craven, a master tactician, was quoted in the paper as saying that Australia was cheating in the set pieces, and this certainly seemed to have an effect on the referee, Captain Piet Myburgh. In the first half the Wallabies could not get any momentum through the tooting of his whistle. Catchpole said, "It was staggering. We would have the game otherwise."' p.27 However, if you felt the refereeing towards the line-outs was fine, then that's what I'll accept. The 1963 side sounds like a wonderfully balanced side between Rob Heming in the line-outs, breakaways like Davis and Guerassimoff, White-Johnson-Thornett in the front row, Hawthorne and Catchpole, and Beres Ellwood in the centres. I vaugely recall you once saying Ellwood set you up for a try in the second test. It's a shame the ABC doesn't have full footage of the 3d Test, sounds wonderful. Sheek, I love the website 'Genslin rugby'. Recently I've been reading about Mannetjies Roux (who didn't play in the 1963 Springbok side), but there isn't a lot written on him. I logged onto Genslin and found a nice article about him and the things Danie Craven said of him. Roux sounds like a tremendous player. I'd have also liked to have seen the 1963 series to see what John Gainsford was like. I've heard Spiro speak highly of him, as well as others.

Jim/Frank, There's a wonderful site I came across some years ago called 'Genslin rugby', put together by a US domiciled Saffie. It's an enormous effort of love where he has detailed every Bok team ever, including personal details, etc. On a pen-portrait for du Preez, there's a comment from Dr. Danie Craven who begins by saying, "frik was basically a lazy man by nature....." Or words to that effect. Jim, if you'll excuse the "what if, could've, would've" tone, the potential for that 1963 team was staggering, considering players absent due injury, study, work, defections to league, etc. For starters your twin brother Stu was unavailable, I presume. Jim Lenehan was injured in Perth on the way to SA, so never toured. Rod Phelps retired the year before but at 28 would have been still young enough. Big, tough Tony Miller was unavailable due work & also because I think he had a young family to look after. Des Connor, feeling unwanted, was feeding the scrums for the All Blacks! Last but not least, the mighty Kangaroos left for England & France later that year with 6 ex-rugby union players - Ken & Dick Thornett, Mick Cleary, Jimmy Lisle, Kevin Ryan & Arthur Summons, who captained the Roos. Only Ken Thornett didn't hang around long enough out of this group of 6 to also play for the Wallabies. I perhaps can also mention goal-kicking flanker Geoff Chapman, who went on to become a leading race horse trainer many years later. My by count, that's an extra 12 players - 8 backs & 4 forwards - that would have made that 1963 Wallabies side even stronger. The only problem would have been deciding who to put into the final XV!

Sam you are correct about the All blacks being technically scoreless at Cardiff against Wales in 1905. I say technically because there is no doubt(according to New Zealanders) that Bob Deans, a great relative of Robbie Deans, scored that try and was pulled back into the field of play by the perfidious Welsh. The same perfidious Welsh ruled a conversion by the Wallabies in the 1908 Test at Cardiff did not go over the bar. In fact it crossed the bar and was blown back by a strong wind. The scoreline was 3-3 at the time. The Wallabies lost 9-6. They beat England 9-3 and a Cornwall side posing as England for the gold medal for rugby at the London Olympics. So in a sense, these first Wallabies, set the gold standard for future teams.

Frank - Frik du Preez was on the outer. The second rowers were Avril Malan and Stompie Van der Merwe, the latter I cant visualise.De Preez did like to run with the ball but in the match against Northern Transvaal which we drew he did not have a good game. The 4th Test was a strange game, we ran with a howling gale in the first half and Myburgh did take a different line to the other matches. I dont remember the lineouts being adjudicated in a different way. The ground had none of the atmosphere of Ellis Park and Newlands. The Third Test was the greatest game I was involvedi in. There were so many small things that were done right by individual players. Nearly impossible to pick up in the 18 minutes footage available. We had played on that ground twice before and it had a really familiar feel. The dry hard surface really suited us and we were tuned up for the high altitude and the long carry of the ball. Certainly in the backs each of us were happy we had the measure of the person we were marking. Frank , thanks for the memory.

In came across this great footage this morning. Mark Ella 1984 Grand Slam - 4 Tries in 4 Matches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5FaS7JaHjU

Jim Boyce, Can I ask: looking back at the 1963 Australian teams and the 1963 South African side, I noticed Frik du Preez wasn't playing in the South African side for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Tests. Do you know why he wasn't playing? I've heard du Preez was occasionally dropped by conservative selectors who felt he didn't do enough work in tight, because apparently du Preez liked to run with the ball in the open. Was he injured or dropped or what happened to him? Can I also ask: what were your thoughts on how the referee performed in the 4th test, in particular with regard to the line-outs? I read that Danie Craven complained in newspapers after the historic 3rd Test that Australia were barging through in the line-out, and during the 4th Test Australia was being pinged alot. The best footage the ABC contains of the 1963 Wallabies is 18 minutes from the famous third Test, so it seems all I'll be able to know of that series is what former players recall of it. Frank.

The line I particularly liked was: "The decision to make the breakdown a fair contest for possession is killing rugby as a spectacle". I don't know about you guys, but I get so sick of these folk from the NH constantly looking to turn the game into league... ;)

Speaking of history, how many people nowadays do you reckon know the relevance of Thermopylae? ;)

great stuff Sheek, thoroughly enjoyable read as usual. I always enjoy your history lessons!!