Rugby league should bring back real scrums

The thing is with a league scrum, is that the players dont bind. They lean together, and feed directly out. At least in union, they contest for the ball. Its a pleasure watching Munster in a scrum. But in league, i get embarassed at how pointless a scrum is. Now, either get back to the proper, fighting, tough scrum that a game like rugby league deserves, or scrap it altogether.

If we brought back contested play-the-balls then could the player be able to tap the ball forward? The contst at the play-the-ball gives the game another edge, theplay-the-ball contest will not take 30 seconds or so for play to resume and if players think quick enough an opportunity arises through no markers. But I still think scrums are relevant. They don't have to be union-like, just makerules so that the ball is in the area so the hooker can defend/steal the ball, instead of the half rolling it behind one leg. This will catch out coaches who now prefer hookers to be at the back of the scrum and backrowers in the hooking position. And I would say there are 15-20 scrums in a game and the ball is in play for 55-60 minutes a game.

Yeah but that's just replacing one non-contest with another. As I said above I reckon RL needs a second contest (one which the forwards can take a leading role in) which means by returning to more of a contest at the Play-the-ball we probablt wouldn't miss having scrums at all. But the contest needs to be fair so that's where the 20-second rule comes in. It'll slow the game down a little but teams would soon learn to use their ball wisely in such a way to avoid being caught out at the Play-the-ball. A major problem tho is that to return to a contested Play-the-ball means a bit of a reversion (just like a return to a contested scrum!) The problem at the moment is that the Backs like Lockyear,Thurston, Slater, Inglis, Folau (on his good days) the exciting ball-players are holding the game to ransom. Teams like Cronulla can't compete, having a contested play-the-ball would be like an added layer of Salary cap if you get what I mean ;) And it wouldn't stop back-play it would just mean back-play would have to get more efficient. Barking: the problem perhaps at the moment (tho many would disagree) is that there is not enough of a second contest for the players to engage in, as you say 75 minutes of real-time game-action means that only the most athletic teams win, great for entertainment but not so good if you're a fan of the other team. And if it happens enough you'll no longer turn up to the game with the same sense that your team has a fair chance (if at all) If RL had more latitude for other ways of competing for the ball the playing field should be more level and thus it will all come down to passion and ticker, not necessarily the superstars

jus de couchon. As forward passes appear to be the norm in ru,I can see where you are coming from. Without media dollars SANZAR would be KNACKAR (sic).

Basketball or League are no more sterile, ritualistic, macho or media driven than any other sport on the planet. Where did you get that phrase from? A film review of '300'?

True, and in fact rugby union has reduced the injuries from scrums significantly over the last twenty. That is one reason there are so many rules scrum-time now - most of them are there for safety. Most neck injuries in rugby union now occur at the tackle ball area of the game.

It's not a myth. The contest is mostly for territory in league. A hit up is not a contest for possession. If a player is not tackled one on one, then he can only lose the ball if he makes a mistake, instead it becomes a contest for territory. Increasing possession has become about reducing errors. The only true contest for possession in league is a bomb, and that generally only occurs over or near the try-line because teams don't want the contest unless there is no territory to lose. The game has definitely removed most of the possessional contests, no doubt about it.

Yeah we see so many attacking moves from scrums...

the basketball spectacle has the game in front of rugby union in australia

Woah dude, take it easy. im just saying league is good as it is why try convert it back to rugby? I think league has it about right. League and football are totally different games I love them both. League is far more about physical presence and power hard tackling and played probably the toughest and fittest players Football is more skilled based and doesnt have the hard tackling of league it is far more tactical, but being a lover of both codes I guess you know that

Is this where League has lost its way? An obsession with spectacle has left the game looking like Basketball without forward passes. A sterile ritual of machismo driven by media dollars.

I did say only if scrums were removed fom the game.I did also offer another alternative . By reducing numbers,you increase the speed and therefore fatigue factor for each team.More open running,more planned moves.Warren Ryan is of the same opinion and I therefore bow to his better judgement.

Safety is not the reason for the scrum being uncontested (how many life-long injuries have you seen in Union scrums), in the 70's the scrum took too long to set and wasted a lot of the 80 minutes, so instead of stopping the clock they stopped the contest. Union scrums are what you see when they are advertising the game (along with great tries and the like), this contest draws a crowd and for this reason League deserves to have it back.

Reducing numbers based on there being no scrums? Why? How many scrums are there now in a game - 5 or 6? The other 75 minutes of every game already has no scrums.

I could handle getting rid of scrums in RL Jaredsbro,but IMO to do so ,I would reduce the number of players to 11.Else the game would be too cluttered with forwards,getting too involved (and i know they do so to a degree now) with the backs. Now being a little cheeky as an alternative,why not steal an idea from union,and have an on field lineout. Wherever the infringement is made, have the half back lob the ball down the centre of the lineout with no assisted lifting. Lineouts leave room for the backs,get the slo mos out of the equation,and there is no need for uncontested ,tiggy touch scrums.And you have that elemnt of uncertainty. Problemo solved.

That is all very well in principle CC but the Scrum in RL does not really achieve that objective anymore. Maybe the backs (or certainly the halfback) gets one or two seconds more than usual but there really is no strategic value in the scrum at all. Why not get rid of it (yeah I know sounds complicated already ;) ) and have a zero-tackle like play-the-ball which gives forwards and backs a chance (and the professional teams space for some much needed play-the-ball strategies rather than resorting to wrestling techniques and other blatant attempts to undermine the spirit of the game) to use their possesion as smartly as possible. The key would be stop the clock and like with the Goalline Drop-out shot-clock, give say a twenty second break to the forwards or whoever will play-the-ball. If the play-the-ball becomes a contest again then maybe we won't lose anything from the current arrangement. The bare truth of the matter tho is that the first play after scrums is nigh on a dummy-run, which is about the only efficient use of the first tackle after a scrum these days. Doesn't require any thought from the player, team or viewer and it basically prohibits creative use of the first tackle.

I agree possibly bring in 2 more players on the field as well and why not have a line outs

Scrums, like cars, aren't banned. There is however a limit on their speed and power for safety.

Agree union scrums look neat and tidy and serve the purpose when they are set and over in one hit.However the bulk of the time there are collapses,resets,and too much damn time wasting.A friend of mine whose son attended Newington,insisted that her son be allowed to play union,on the proviso he was not involved in a scrum in the front row,such was her fear. There have been some serious injuries in senior ru as a result in which a couple of Aussies have had early retirements . Whilst rugby league scrums are just a group of guys clasping each other,it serves the purpose of getting the'slower guys" out of the way,and opening the game up for a running game.That is one of the reasons, it gets the Tv ratings.It is not intended to be an obstacle course of technicalities,but a proving ground for courageous, deft hard and straight running and hard tackling.Less energy is expended in scrums,so the forwards do more "open field work". And I also agree despite all the hours practising scrummaging,there are few won against the head.A waste of energy for an obvious result IMO.Each to his own .