Socceroos Michael Theoklitos team training in Canberra, Tuesday, March 3, 2009. The Socceroos will play Kuwait in the Asian Cup qualifying match at Canberra Stadium on Thursday. (AAP Image/Alan Porritt)
I doubt many were surprised when news broke last week that Michael Theoklitos had finally parted company with Norwich City after a nightmare stint.
The former Melbourne Victory goalkeeper, who has since decided to return to Australia by signing on with Brisbane Roar, had been out of favour with the Canaries since his horror debut at the start of the season ended in a 7-1 loss.
Nice guy ‘Theo’ was a reliable player for the Victory, but his trouble in England’s third division begs the question: how good of a player is he?
Despite genuine interest last year from Everton and two A-League Goalkeeper of the Year awards, Theoklitos was never head and shoulders above any of his fellow Australian number ones.
He went to England with the desire to try his hand at European football as well as dreaming of richer pastures. In the end, Theoklitos seems to have come up short on both counts.
Theo’s story got me thinking again about the masses of medium quality Australians who are playing in domestic competitions overseas and why they are there.
It’s a question that is even more pertinent in light of the fluttering eyes from Australian football fans, pundits and Feyenord following Tommy Oar’s performance for the Socceroos last week.
Of course there are the top tier of Australian footballers who need to be playing overseas as well as the more talented youngsters who head to Europe (and slowly Asia) to develop their game. Beyond them however is a large amount of ordinary players in ordinary leagues.
The inconsistent performances from the likes of Rostyn Griffiths, Adam Hughes and even Mile Sterjovski since they’ve returned to the A-League prove that these players aren’t beyond A-League quality. So is it because they don’t want to live and play in Australia? Every single one of them will tell you the answers to that question is no.
Then why aren’t they coming back?
Recently I got to spend a few weeks in South Korea and caught up with Sasa Ognenovski for an interview that will air on The World Game in the coming days.
When I broached the topic of why South Korea’s K-League manages to keep most of its local talent when there is a constant stream out the door of Australia, Sasa was forthright.
“A lot has to do with what their managers say to them,” Ognenovski explained.
“In Korea when an older person tells you something that’s pretty much how it’s going to be.
“They’re happy to live at home, earn decent money and if the opportunity comes where they can move on to a bigger and better league then they go.
“But they don’t just go out and find a team in Romania or Bulgaria or wherever it might be just for the sake of playing in Europe.
“For them they’re earning decent money here and I don’t think any Aussie would leave Australia if he was earning the amount of money he’d be earning anywhere else in the world.”
Excuse the pun but Sasa was right on the money. At the end of the day, while the A-League can’t come close to competing financially, players will still leave and not come back until another life factor other then money draws them home.
All of which makes Football Federation Australia’s continued refusal to accept the “3+1” rule or an Asian marquee system all the more saddening.
clayton
Guest
I don`t think clubs should spend money they don`t have. I`d like to see the "Aussies overseas" list grow even further tbh. Be nice if they weren`t playing non-league football or the greek 4th division or whatever ...
AndyRoo
Roar Guru
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/a-league/mariners-on-horizon-as-payne-searches-for-new-contract-20100315-q9rd.html It seems SFC also like to leave contract negotiations late, they still haven't offered Payne a deal and he may head home to the Mariners.
Realfootball
Guest
Agree that my comment was a qualitative perception, rather than results focussed. Certainly the football under Baan was, in my view, more fluid and assertive than under Arnold, where there was a general tendency to play deep defence then hoof it long. The Olyroos looked a much better football team under Baan. I still can't forgive Arnold for not facing the press after the Olympics. Well, there'll be no hiding if CCM go belly up again this season.
Realfootball
Guest
That is harsh on Ferguson, who has a top class playing pedigree and did well in his first year with a very limited squad at Nth Queensland. Agree on Mitchell, though. He has had plenty of time now and Sage needs to to move on to another coach who can get the squad performing as its talent indicates it should. I hope Arnold succeeds at CCM, but after McKinna he was the wrong man for a club that needs a fresh direction.
george
Guest
You are joking , academy 18s games are played at a far greater pace than the aleague , with far less time on the ball . You must play and train at this level from as young as possible to achieve full potential .
Davidde Corran
Roar Guru
whiskeymac, there are around 100 US footballers playing overseas last time I checked. An American colleague I know quite well, Brent Latham, is a part of the crew who run a site dedicated to the topic called Yanks Abroad. Really interesting little site: http://yanks-abroad.com/ One of the biggest problems as I've had explained to me by the excellent Sean Wheelock (check him out on BBC 5live's World Football phone-in) is that after college the starting contracts in the MLS are so poor (around US$20,000 from memory) that many just bypass it and head to ordinary European leagues. Others skip college all together and head to Europe at 18.
David V.
Guest
I just can't get over the poor performances of the team in the Asian Cup, or his lack of responsibility in any manner for dismal results under his watch. His reputation with players and fans is cancerous.
Towser
Guest
For the record Arnie took over the second phase of qualifying from Baan. So Baan 8 matches Arnold 6 matches. Heres the results:- Team Opponent Score Time/Date (Local) Time/Date (AEST) Venue Links Qantas Under 23s DPR Korea 1 - 1 5.00pm / 21.11.2007 3.00am / 22.11.2007 Pyongyang (DPR) Qantas Under 23s Iraq 2 - 0 7.00pm / 17.11.2007 5.00am / 18.11.2007 Bluetongue Stadium, Central Coast Qantas Under 23s Lebanon 0 - 0 1.00am / 18.10.2007 11.00am / 18.10.2007 Beirut (LEB) Qantas Under 23s Lebanon 3 - 0 7.00pm / 12.09.2007 5.00am / 13.09.2007 Bluetongue Stadium, Central Coast Qantas Under 23s DPR Korea 1 - 0 7.00pm / 08.09.2007 7.00pm / 08.09.2007 EnergyAustralia Stadium, Newcastle Qantas Under 23s Iraq 0 - 0 2.00am / 23.08.2007 9.00am / 23.08.2007 Doha (QAT) Qantas Under 23s Jordan 4 - 0 8.00pm / 06.06.2007 6.00am / 07.06.2007 Amman (JOR) Qantas Under 23s Iran 3 - 1 12.00am / 16.05.2007 10.00am / 16.05.2007 Adelaide Qantas Under 23s Saudi Arabia 1 - 2 12.00am / 18.04.2007 10.00am / 18.04.2007 Damman (KSA) Qantas Under 23s Saudi Arabia 2 - 0 7.00pm / 28.03.2007 5.00am / 29.03.2007 Adelaide Qantas Under 23s Jordan 1 - 1 7.00pm / 14.03.2007 5.00am / 15.03.2007 Adelaide Qantas Under 23s Iran 0 - 0 3.00pm / 28.02.2007 1.00am / 01.03.2007 Tehran (IRN) Qantas Under 23s China Taipei 1 - 0 12.00am / 14.02.2007 10.00am / 14.02.2007 Taipei (TPE) Qantas Under 23s China Taipei 11 - 0 12.00am / 07.02.2007 12.30am / 07.02.2007 Hindmarsh Stadium, Adelaide So Arnie took charge from Iraq 23/8/07. Cant see any difference in results to Baans. Maybe you could argue style,but results no difference.
Punter
Guest
There is no doubt that Arnold is not an international class coach, but if after years of being under Guus & Pim at the national level, we cannot get a very good A-League coach, then either the system is wrong or Arnold is totally useless. I for one am glad to see Arnold given a chance. He may fail, but this needs to be the transition positions. I would love to see the likes of Van Egmond, Okon or Tony Vidmar given the chance to work under the new int'l socceroos manager for the next 3-4 years & hopefully we will introduce more Aussie coaches into the A-League. It's Mitchell, Mckinna (great for CCM though) & Ferguson who are poor choices for the A-League.
Punter
Guest
The player in question is Sam Munroe, some who have seen him rate him very highly, NYL defensive midfielder. The players this year from the top NYL from last year signed this year, didn't kick on, Grant, (injury), Danning (injury), Gan (inconsistentcy), Jurman (injury), not sure Payne was one of them. Sean Rooney was the top goalscorer for SFC NYL & moved to Jets. The lack of youth players is more due to the coaches not knowing how to handle them. But I go back to the players running around in other leagues, the 2nd-3rd tier players, who could all grace the A-League if the price was right. Look at Smeltz, he was running around in the conference league.
Realfootball
Guest
Towser, Rob Baan was in charge of the Olyroos for most of the qualifying campaign, and the team's performances dipped as soon as Arnold took over. All the evidence is that Arnold is, if not incompetent, irretrievably mediocre. He was the wrong choice for the Mariners, who badly need a bit of sparkle. Arnold's refusal to face the press after the Olympics said nothing good about his character. Gutless is the only word that applies.
dasilva
Guest
Fair enough Towser about Arnold qualifying the Olyroos to the Olympics and perhaps the strength of the squad was more responsible for our poor Olympics performance rather then the coaching (I think Arnold coach about 8 of the games, Baan coached the first 6 games of the Olyroos though). I think the reason why the people look back at Arnold's period as coach of the Olyroos so dimly was because of the selection issues at the beginning (no Djite or Burns), criticism of training methods by the players (Kilkenny), also the "style" of football that was played (especially the comparison to Rob Baan's club Olyroos) and the media no show at the end. I personally give Arnold the benefit of the doubt but I respect the opinions of those who don't.
Towser
Guest
dasilva If memory serves me correctly he did get his "club Olyroos" through to the Olympics over 14 difficult qualifying matches. Maybe the fact that his team were not succesful at the Olympics may be more to do with the reality that the players were just not good enough compared to their opponents. Serbia 1-1 draw,Argentina & Ivory Coast 1-0 losses. Still reasonable resullts considering our squad. So just as Asia is not the Oympics neither is the A-League the EPL. Can the Mariners do better of course they can. Can they afford to do better? I doubt it ,so I prefer the optimistic rather than skeptical viewpoint until proven otherwise.
AndyRoo
Roar Guru
Further to the above the standard MLS contract is for 4 years….. but then they can get away with non guaranteed contracts which I don’t think would go down to well in Australia but food for thought. Edit: In regards to SVD, he is in the same category of player as Adam Griffiths and Danny Allsop who went to West Asian teams for big money. Brisbane would be kicking themselves if Adelaide make the second round of the ACL and sell him for 5 times what they are paying him.
AndrewM
Guest
I think the HAL is improving across the board, so you won't get situations where training is better overseas, there is no excuses for not being able to hold the same training sessions such as man utd. I guess facilities are the key here, not the knowledge of training, and this is coming.. The CC will have amazing facilities in a few years time, and I hear the rovers are also planning something similiar. As others point out, it will be the investment in the grass roots, the facilities, and the TV deals which bring about massive change in the game here and it should be much more competitive with a higher retention rate in 5 years time. This will be the building block for the future.
AndyRoo
Roar Guru
I am interested too see how he goes, at least it's a point of interest around the Mariners.
dasilva
Guest
Although I kind of agree with your point Remember that he coached the Socceroos and Olyroos AFTER he finished his apprenticeship with Guus Hiddink (with the Olyroos during his apprenticeship with Verbeek). So I don't think that David V is prejudging him based on what he done in the Pre-Hiddink days at Northern Spirit. His workout with the Olyroos had him coaching the Olyroos in extensive training camps and tours and reasonable amount of practice match. They were pretty much club Australia minus a few European players so you can infer the ability of Arnold in coaching players on a day to day basis with the Olyroos. Now I admit that International Football is a lot more difficult then A-league football but we know for sure that he isn't National team level. Maybe he learnt enough to be solid A-league coach but I think David V has the right to be skeptical.
AndyRoo
Roar Guru
Sergio, walked out for free, he had a 2 year contract and it expired. Whenever you lose an important player to another A league club I consider that a failure. If clubs are losing money then they obviously can’t compete with overseas options but you should make sure that you can keep other A league clubs from taking your best. In Roars defence their limited money (they have admitted they won’t have a marquee next season) is probably better spent making sure Oar, Zullo and Sarota have longer contracts and don’t leave for peanuts. More likely they will just lose the lot because their not prepared to back them with 4 year deals :( After realizing Sergio was a great buy they should have been trying to extend his contract half way through 2008/2009. If he didn’t re sign they could have tried to hawk him to an Asian club after the first season when he still had a year left. I guess clubs are scared of committing to too much for too long on a dud (say Renaildo’s deal) but once you have them on your books and training every day you should trust your football department and back the players early with longer contracts. Most of the teams have a few mediocre players that have been around the team for a while (the penalty for getting it wrong) but at least you have someone whose name the fans can remember. If Renaildo wasn’t such a dud then they would still have one experienced striker for Costa and whatever kid with potential they have to work with. As it stands they are going to need to recruit someone else.
Tifosi
Guest
Players also move to Europe because the Football Culture is much better also. They are immersed in it 24/7 and it feels much better than being here in Australia where the average aussie couldn't really care less. When Nathan Burns left Adelaide Utd for Greece( where he is currently playing second division), he said he had wished he had gone earlier as the level of training etc was at a much higher level than Australia, and this was Greece he was talking about. He felt that it took him about 1 year to get up to speed. So thats another reason they go over and stay in second rate leagues. Simply they are still better than the A-league.
Towser
Guest
Whilst I dont disagree with you about coaching improvement in Australia,how can Graham Arnold be judged as a club coach?. On what he did 10 years ago at Northern Spirit? You may be right he could be rubbish. There again he may have learned something from Hiddink & Verbeek. Lets not prejudge the cake maker on the basis of the flopped pavlova he made when he was an apprentice. Hes been training alongside some gourmet chefs recently, so lets see if hes learned anything before placing him in Mcdonalds constructing hamburgers.