More Liverpool drama: it's time for Rafa to go

Surely if you only have 'peanuts' to spend then you do not go and throw all those peanuts at a single right back? What is Wenger's net spend over the same period? What about David Moyes too?

"Kuyt was bought less as a striker and more for his ability to play as part of an attacking 3 in the 4-2-3-1 formation Rafa prefers." I very much doubt that. You buy a guy who had just scored 71 goals in 101 appearances to put the ball in the back of the net. It's irrelevant that he's turned out to be a solid, hardworking midfielder, as the primary purpose of Kuyt's signing was to get a goalscorer. "His other successes you fail to mention have been Garcia, Benayoun, Skrtel, Insua, Aurelio, Johnson, Arbeloa, not to mention turning Peter Crouch from a laughing stock into an England international." I can't say Arbeloa or Garcia were successes. The rest have all done well, but you can't justify the £17million Benitez played for Johnson. Re: Crouch; Liverpool wasn't the making of the player, and it was incredible that a player who constantly did the business for the club didn't get more games. The reason he signed for Liverpool was because of his success at Southampton, who was well respected before he went there. Throughout his tenure, his lack of game time bemused many Liverpool supporters. "He’s even made limited players like Lucas, Krygiakos and Ngog look like better than average players." You don't sign anyone if you think they are simply average players........I hope. Lucas was signed for £6million and so far hasn't lived up to his reputed early promise he had in Brazil. However, his form has improved of late and despite Benitez's persistance at playing him as a defensive midfielder, he is far better in attacking midfield role. Kryrgiakos has never been anything less or more than average and N'Gog was signed as a promising youngster. "Pennant was purchased when Rafa was unable to afford a world class winger (Simao was mentioned at the time) and Babel was a star at the u21 Euro championships and his class is evident but his attitude isn’t." And Pennant did quite well for Liverpool I thought. He at least gave them some balance on the right and still is a technically better player than Kuyt. Babel would be far better if Benitez played him in his favourite position and it's very difficult to get a consistant run of form when he's not playing and knows when he plays well, he's going to be dropped anyway. "THen there is the Keane incident which was widely reported as being a player that he didn’t want." Why buy a player you don't want? Shevchenko was signed by Mourinho, which was an Abramovich signing, but I can't ever remember it being the same with Keane. "Finally lets get to the analysis of the Chelsea game on Sunday. A game in which Liverpool started with LUcas at Defensive Mid, Mascherano at Right Back and Kuyt up front and a bench shorn of any real stars." Yeah, and those players were selected by Benitez, and Kuyt was playing in his natural position, or at least the position he was bought to play in. Lucas was playing in a position which he has played for Liverpool the majority of the time. Philip Degan was on the bench; doesn't Benitez have confidence in another one of his signings then? You've mentioned some of the good players he's bought and the obvious failures have also been mentioned, but there was also Morientes who was signed for £6.3million, Dossena for £7million and Riera for £9million. You add that together and he could have bought Simao. I also read somewhere that he has bought 77 players during his tenure. A lot of those, I would guess, have been failures. He's third on 'net spend,' above Manchester United and Arsenal etc in the same amount of time, 2004-2009. Then we move onto his youth policy. Liverpool youth won the youth cup two years running; why haven't they been given a chance. Yes, certain players naturally don't make, but at Manchester United, the likes of Gibson still come through, despite not being as talented as other players. However, since he's played first team football, his game has developed immensely. Darren Fletcher never looked like a top class footballer, but with trust and persistance, he's become a very very good player. For me, Benitez puts too much trust in average foreigners, when there is a very talented youth team he could unearth.

Over 6 seasons Rafa's had a net spend of 79 million pounds or 13 million a season. Peanuts.

All fair points. I still think he deserves to go. I mean if villa finish above liverpool that's just not acceptable. I think Martin O'Neill inherited a far bigger mess there. Having said that I think I heard villa fans calling for his axing on 606. That's how fickle football fans can get. Time will eventually tell. If rafa does go to juve it will be interesting to see how both liverpool and rafa travel.

I don't consider any journalist with an agenda as highly regarded. Henry Winter consistently has a view skewed against certain clubs including Liverpool and in particular his dislike of Rafael Benitez. Straight up one of your articles quotes a figure of 230 million spent by Benitez on players. The gross figures have been quoted as around 290 million with incoming money from players sales of 190 million that leaves a net spend of only about 100 million. It's all well and good saying he has spent 230 million but if you then have to sell players your running around in circles. What most of the articles written about Benitez spending fail to cover is the relative starting positions of the clubs when he started. Liverpool were in various states of disrepair when Benitez was hired, he inherited a squad with the likes of Baros, Kewell, Murphy, Cisse, Traore, Biscan. That paled in comparison to the likes of United with Heinze, Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Rooney, Saha, Van Nistlerooy, Park, Giggs, Smith, Vidic, Keane, Scholes etc. A club in Liverpools position had to spend money to bridge the gap to the top teams plus spend extra money to match the added improvement to those teams. Benitez was never given enough funds to be able to do the job. Both this season and last show the two sides of the coin that is the predicament of Liverpool. They have been given enough money to put out a formidable first XI if all are fit (such as last seasons results) but as far as depth in quality goes, they are lagging far behind the other clubs. They simply cannot afford to either buy the quality for the bench nor pay their wages to keep them happy whilst they sit on the bench. So whilst it's all well and good to say other managers haven't spent as much as Benitez, it's not a fair comparison. If they were all start on an equal footing then you could unequivocally say that Benitez has failed but they haven't and you can't. Peter Crouch may have played for England shortly before his Liverpool debut but he was considering a joke and was even booed when brough on by the supporters. He took a number of months to score his first for Liverpool all the while enduring the jeers of other supporters. It was only whilst at Liverpool that he was begun to be taken seriously by fans around England. Liverpool fans want to win the league but unless they hire a manager like Mourinho, Hiddink or even Hodgson, I don't see it happening. And regardless of who they hire, they have to address the lack of depth in their squad.

Rafa's imminent departure will be good for Liverpool, the EPL and himself. I don't like his risk aversion style and believe he was to quick to de-anglicize and instead Iberianise the club. The EPL is diminished without Liverpool in contention and I believe they should now install a British Manager like O'Neill, Hodgson or even Allardyce and build up from the youth sides and astute recruitment a British based squad laced with only the very best overseas talent like Torres, Benayoun and Kuyt. Liverpool have rid themselves of Scousers with heart players like Danny Murphy and Steve Finnan and replaced them with traveling artisans such as Lucas.

Well Mintox I suggest you read this article by Henry Winter a highly regarded football journalist in the UK. http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/go-now-rafa-holding-your-head-up-high-2163128.html or http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawton-there-are-no-excuses-for-benitez-he-must-accept-the-blame-for-livepools-plight-1961514.html or http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1271498/Des-Kelly-Rafa-Benitez-leave-Liverpool-does-damage.html?ito=feeds-newsxml Obviously I haven't been the only one partaking in lazy journalism. It dispels the notion that Rafa hasn't been provided with any money. It also highlights the fact that Arsenal have had less money in recent times but that hasn't stopped Arsene Wenger getting arsenal to a champions League final in 2006 and challenging for the league this season. I had forgotten about Danny Murphy who will be leading Fulham out in the Europa cup final. A far better midfielder than Lucas. Peter Crouch played for England before he went to Liverpool when he was still at Southampton. He left Liverpool more or less becuase he didn't get enough game time and he has once again prospered under Redknapp at Portsmouth then Spurs. He might have a better win/ loss ratio than any Liverpool manager since shankly but tell that to Liverpool fans and see what they say?(I assume you're not a Liverpool fan) They want the league, and the fact that Rafa is about to have failed for the 2nd time in 6 seasons to obtain a top 4 finish just isn't good enough. Sure i'll admit that Ferguson has signed some lemons in his time but after 23 seasons I think that's to be expected. I have a mate who is a Juve fan and he is petrified about Benitez's likely arrival, I talk to Liverpool fans all the time and most lost confidence in Benitez a long time ago. When asked if he hoped it was Benitez's last game at Anfield Robbie Slater replied "I bloody hope so" (or words to that effect). But as a Manchester United fan I sincerely hope he stays.

"Rumour is that he is negotiating with Juventus, because the writing is on the wall and his sacking will be announced next week." I don't think Liverpool can afford his payout and would prefer he just resigned and went to Juventus. Without new owners it won't matter who the coach is. Liverpool have a proud history and huge expectations without the resources to compete with the elite. I think Rafa has been over achieving for years but you can only do that for so long before it catches up with you.

This peice is extremely lazy journalism and I say this as a person who is rather indifferent about Rafael Benitez as a manager. That you can come to the conclusion that a manager who has taken Liverpool to 2 Champions League finals and their closest finish to first place in 19 years and with the best winning percentage since the great Bill Shankly is mind boggling. My personal opinion, for what it's worth is that Rafa is a good manager, he consistently beats the top teams from England and Europe. On the other hand he often fails to win the easy games and from many reports is a very risk averse manager, preferring to control every aspect of the play. He's no different from any other manager when it comes to transfers. Managers prefer players that fit their style of play. Kuyt was bought less as a striker and more for his ability to play as part of an attacking 3 in the 4-2-3-1 formation Rafa prefers. His other successes you fail to mention have been Garcia, Benayoun, Skrtel, Insua, Aurelio, Johnson, Arbeloa, not to mention turning Peter Crouch from a laughing stock into an England international. He's even made limited players like Lucas, Krygiakos and Ngog look like better than average players. Sure he has his failures but then you could say that about all managers, Fergie purchased Djemba Djemba and Kleberson, Wenger purchased Cygan and still can't find a good keeper, Chelsea purchased Bridge, Parker, Wright Phillips and Deco who've done a large part of bugger all whilst at the club. Your analysis also fails to aknowledge that a large part of Liverpools failings are their inability to compete financially. Nunez and Kromkamp were part payments for other deals. Pennant was purchased when Rafa was unable to afford a world class winger (Simao was mentioned at the time) and Babel was a star at the u21 Euro championships and his class is evident but his attitude isn't. THen there is the Keane incident which was widely reported as being a player that he didn't want. Not to mention that he was then vilified for not playing him in the correct position only for him to go back to Tottenham where he was played on the wing and then shipped out to Celtic. Surely it was good business to recoup any money on a player that clearly doesn't cut it in the premier league anymore. For what he's had to work with, Rafa has done very well. The Champions League wasn't a fluke nor was it handed to them on a platter as you suggest. They had to beat good teams to get there (Chelsea, Juventus), all of that with a squad including the likes of Biscan, Smicer and Traore. They then went on to make the final 2 years later where they dominated and many would agree that Liverpool deserved to win that game. Finally lets get to the analysis of the Chelsea game on Sunday. A game in which Liverpool started with LUcas at Defensive Mid, Mascherano at Right Back and Kuyt up front and a bench shorn of any real stars. All things considering, Liverpool did well, infact they were the better team for much of the first half. They could even have gone ahead before Gerrard gifted Chelsea with a goal. That was their turning point and as soon as Chelsea started to exploit Mascherano's inability to play right back, the spaces started to open and Chelsea got on top. It wasn't great but hardly uninspiring, pathetic and lacking in conviction.

Rumour is that he is negotiating with Juventus, because the writing is on the wall and his sacking will be announced next week.

To whiskeymac, okay fair enough they're world class players, but in my view it still doesnt make up for all the bad ones. Plus one of those signings, Xabi Alonso, left primarily because of Benitez. Liverpool, like United, need new owners. As for players It think Liverpool need a couple more quality players and they can match United and Chelsea, they proved that last year. As for manager I really don't know. Mourinho will be mentioned if Benitez goes but I don't know if they could afford him. Roy Hodgson's name has been mentioned and if he can take Fulham from a relegation fight to a Europa league final in two years then i'm sure he could rebuild Liverpool. As for you Macs.football if that's your view great. As a Manchester United fan I hope Benitez doesn't leave. I think you'll find the commentator of the match (pretty sure it was John Champion) and Robbie Slater (a diehard Liverpool fan) had similarly damning verdicts of Liverpool's performance as I did. Houllier won three cup competitions in one season at Liverpool. What has benitez actually won? The champions league in 2005 and the fa cup in 2006 (oh and lets not forget that charity shield win against Chelsea in 2006). He's had plenty of time, time to now go.

Joke of any article. Can't be bothered replying to all the idiocy contained in it. But i reply to your point about rotations. In the three previous seasons before this one (don't know the stats for this season) the manager who rotated the most was Alex Ferguson, and which team won the EPL titles in those seasons, it was Man U. Rotations are a necessary part of modern football in Europe. For anyone who's read this post and actually wants to read something intelligent about Liverpool and Rafa Benitez click on the link. http://tomkinstimes.com/

"His only good signings have been that of Fernando Torres, Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano and Jose Reina." outstanding players! if only Arsenal had torres and Reina and Masherano! this was pretty damning (from the guasrdian website ) Benítez said: "I have four years left on my contract and I still have to talk with the new chairman. Nothing is clear cut, we have to wait. It is not just for me to ask one or two questions. If we have a conversation we will try and keep it private. It is just to talk about the future. You are asking about my future, but the future of the club is more important." The present involves having to stomach Chelsea supporters singing "You're ancient history" in response to Liverpool's proud boast of 18 leagues and five European Cups, and a manager who does not know which way to turn. "I have four more years on my contract so I will not talk too much at the moment," he added. Something has to give. ouch. new owners, new players and a new coach definitely on the cards. but who?