Selecting all-time Windies regional teams

my all time guyana xi- roy fredericks, glendon gibbs, rohan kanhai,alvin kallicharan,shiv chanderpaul,clive lloyd( C),ivor mendonca,charlie stayers,colin croft,john trim,lance gibbs.12th man roger harper

Sheek, to my surprise saw that Greg Chappell actually played only slightly more often for Qld (61) than for SA (57). The impression, which I shared, that he played much more for Qld is possibly because he played over a longer span in Qld (11 years v 7). The similar number of games would be because he missed some seasons because of WSC and probably also missed more state games as his career went on, as the number of one day internationals greatly increased. The Croweaters might even claim a technical win since he played 100 innings for SA and a mere 99 for Qld - most right-thinking Qlders would call that codswallop, perhaps influenced somewhat by the fact that while he made a healthy 4133 runs at nearly 46 for SA, he got 5905 at a staggering 68.66 for Qld. Besides, if they can have Bradman, D, we can have Chappell, G.

my wicketkeeper for guyana would be ivor mendonca who was a far better batsman and wicketkeeper than pydanna. butcher ahead of hooper.

Victor Eddy is from St.Kitts (Leeward Islands) not from the Windward Islands so that needs to be changed...

Sheek, I can only agree that for these sorts of exercises you have to be eligible for only one team and Wes Hall is undoubtedly a Barbadian, even if he played nearly as often for Trinidad and Tobago, and more for Qld! For most "all time" teams, I think you need to be a native of the country and you look at where you played most to pick between states/provinces/regions. Picking all-time English county teams may be a different thing, because sometimes they had long term imports who played far more for their county than for anyone else. Luckily that's not what we're doing here!

Thanks Sheek. Your off the top of the head guesses were in the ball park. Qld cricket site gives the breakdown of who he played for as Barbados 13 (over 12 years!), Trinidad 9 (4 years), Qld 17 (2), West Indians 70, WI 49 (11 years), plus various other one-off or invitational type teams - Commonwealth XI, Rest of the World XI and the like. Unlike many in that era and in the following couple of decades, he didn't play county cricket. I thought the disparity in the number of games was one of those curious little tidbits you come across sometimes. Unexpected, but guessed it was because he probably played for Barbados mostly right at the start and end of his career, and was always away in between.. Qld had him for 2 years, and it looks like he played pretty much every game in that period (given only 8 Shield games per year then). Disparity in performances I assumed a result of playing mostly for Barbados early and late in his career, while at or near his peak when playing for Qld, plus WI wickets tended to be belters in the late 50s and early to mid 60s as I understand it. Whether the Gabba was in one of its sporty periods in the early 60's when Hall played for Qld, I don't know, but chances are it might have been!

JB, I was so into the stats, I missed the funny side, although I suspected you were having another friendly dig. Actually, I enjoy the challenges - keeps me on my mental toes. I was actually chuffed I had a ready answer to reply.....

JohnB, For your interest, I find that 'cricket archives' presents its archive section more easily for the reader to access & follow, than 'cricinfo'. Although cricinfo does the player bios better, I think. Both sites have an enormous treasure trove of info.

JohnB, I can actually answer the anomaly regarding Wes Hall. The Shell Shield (Windies equivalent of Sheffield Shield) only kick-started in 1965/66, which was towards the end of Hall's career. Before that the only first class games other than tests would be the tour matches & perhaps playing for a combined XI. For example, without looking & breaking down his stats per first class team he played, you could find something like this - Windies 48, Barbados 13, NSW 17, Windies on tour 50(?), other 1st class games 10. It would not have been unusual for him to rack up only one game per year for Barbados 1956-64. But on tours of Australia & Asia, he wouldn't have appeared at home for Bardados at all. Also, prior to most Windies islands gaining independence (mid 60s through mid 70s), players appeared for other islands/regions. Hall also represented Trinidad at one stage. Finally with respect to the Shell Shield, they only played each other once (4 matches, then 5) compared to the Aussie states playing each other twice (8 matches, then 10). With respect to playing for one state, it's a case of "horses for courses". It applies only to Australian players, & not designed to include the anomaly thrown up by Hall's stats. For all intents & purposes however, Hall is a Bajan!

Vinay, I think you can just copy the address at the top of your browser, and send that - http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/08/05/selecting-all-time-windies-regional-teams/ Please stress that the crack about Wes Hall being more qualified for Qld than for Barbados was not repeat not serious!

Sheek,Tony Cozier would be chuffed at this article and I will send it on to him if you can send it to me as a link. Great reading from yourself,Bayman and JohnB. Enjoyed it immensely.

Bayman, Sheek - I'm obviously having a staggeringly productive day today. Looked at the Qld Cricket site, which I'd never looked at before - they have a listing for everyone who's played for Qld and very usefully the site breaks the stats down by each team the player played for. That lets you see that Wes Hall played more times for Qld (17) than he did for Barbados (13), and did better too - 76 wickets at 26 v 41 at 30. Obviously that may reflect different pitches, and the different stages of his career at which he played for the 2 teams. Still, does that let you argue he's more eligible for Qld than he is for Barbados?! That site also tells you that Viv Richards' figures for Qld were respectable - 5 games, 349 runs at 43.6 with 1x100 and 2x50s (although I think he made lots of the runs in a tour match rather than Shield games), Botham's really pretty good - 11 games, 646 runs @ 34 with 7x50s, 18 catches and 29 wickets @ 27.75 (although again I have an idea he racked up a lot of the figures early, while Qld hammered everyone at the Gabba as was standard back then, before fading substantially as the season went on), Majid Khan (9 games, 496 runs av 31, 2x100s, 2x50s) and Alvin Kallicharan (7 games, 402 runs, av 31, 1x100, 2x50s) nothing to write home about, and Graeme Hick arguably the best performed (11 games, 904 runs, av 47.5, 3x100s, 4x50s).

Guys, For my next attempt, I'll have a crack at all-time Aussie state teams. One caveat would be to select guys for only one state. Firstly, because I think they can only serve one master, & secondly, it makes it more interesting if you select them for only one state. I mean, even in the world of fantasy, how could Bradman play for both NSW & SA at the same time? I quickly looked up some players who appeared for more than one state, especially where I thought their appearances for both were close. Here's a snatch list: D.Bradman - NSW 41 & SA 44. K.Miller - Vic 18 & NSW 50. R.Lindwall - NSW 50 & Qld 34. N.Harvey - Vic 64 & NSW 30. W.Brown - NSW 22 & Qld 50. I think players should appear for the state they appeared most for, so Bradman for SA, Miller for NSW, Lindwall for NSW, Harvey for Vic & Brown for Qld. In almost all the above cases this works very well. Bradman may have been born & begun his career in NSW, but he played slightly more often for SA & continued to live there the remainder of his life. With regard to G.Chappell, A.Border & jJThomson, they played much more often for Qld than SA, NSW & NSW respectively. And they all continued to live in Qld afterwards, although Chappell returned to SA several years ago.

Hi Bayman, It's possible I missed someone. But the only other candidates I could find were Tony White & Alan Howard, neither of whom I would say was any better than Holford. of course, Holford's all-rounder value gives him an edge. I think Suleiman Benn is a bajan, but even if he was a slightly better spinner, Holford's all-round value again keeps him in front, I think. Also, Benn has some way to go to proving his quality as a spinner. Of course, we could play Sobers as the sole spinner (although I would be reluctant to do this) & bring in either Charlie Griffith or Sylvester Clarke!

Thanks Dawn - I stand corrected.

For those who want Lindwall in the Queensland team he moved there for the 1954/55 season. Given he retired at the end of the 1959/60 season, after the Pakistan/India tour, that's a total of six seasons which may, or may not, qualify him. Bill Brown was born in Queensland, moved to NSW and played for them, then moved back and captained Queensland so I reckon he could be called a Queenslander too. I also agree that Trimble and Burge might be considered unlucky to miss out on any "best ever" side from up north. By the way, Sheek, given the quality of that Barbados side it's hard to believe there hasn't been a better spinner than David Holford. Of course, there might be but cousin Gary's already batting at number 6. The worry is that a fair proportion of this great Barbados combination would have played together. Sobers would have played with at least seven of this team even if some of the seven hadn't played with each other (e.g. Holford and the three Ws). I vaguely remember some time in the 60s(?) when Barbados wanted to arrange a match with a Rest of the World combo. Can't remember if it ever happened but certainly Barbados, at that time, had a pretty formidable team.

Ray Phillips. Best keeper in the country after Marsh retired, but lost out to Wayne Phillips due to the latter's superior batting ability.

Ray Phillips

The keeper could be the bloke who came from NSW in the 80's and went on an Ashes tour but never played a test. Does radio commentary now in Brisbane. Name escapes me!

It occurs to me that an all-time Qld imports team could be very strong! Brown, Wessels, Chappell G, Richards, Border, Botham, keeper?, McCool, Lindwall, Thomson, Hall, without even drawing breath.