International rugby league at a crossroads

No i wouldnt say its ok for Hayne etc to play for other countries when its good for them however, if Hayne isnt picked for Australia in something like the world cup, then allowing him to play for fiji only strengthens to comp. It isnt Hayne choosing to play for fiji, its him not being picked for Australia so consequently playing for fiji. But i agree with you that RL needs to sort the eligibility stuff out. Basically a player can play for whoever they want and that shouldnt be the case. Like you said, look at Inglis

Where did i say Sparc was the NZRL no where.they made the recommendations. People for the new positions can be employed,recommended by whoever.they are still being employed to do a job. You spend a great deal of time and print,going into something that has just been set up in NZ,and predicting its demise already.Who is doing the deathriding?LOL Appear you have full knowledge on how everything will be set up.Ever heard of email,twitter,the phone for communication.if it was going to be that much of a problem,they would have had 20 zones. You apparently have sat in locations in WA,Samoa.Fiji,NZ,Brisbane.I just don't know how you do it and post all these things.Amazing.The same the word you accuse me of paranoid union fan"" ,who knows the intricacies of rl more than the RFL and the NRL. Compared to your limlited knowledge of intnl rl,I know a tad more than you might think about NZ rl.I am not concerned about other sports. Mate please stop parotting on about distances.NZ is tiny Island by Island compared to outback and regional Oz. Well you are wrong again the Cowboys players accompany the D/O to various outback towns,and even went to Darwin.Peachey does a lot of intrastate work .The D/Os don't just sit on their backsides.The d/os are domiciled in the major towns,they can't be domiciled in every one. You only have to travel to a place once by car to @ know the distance involved b) calculate how long it took.Therefore my experience by car in NZ,gave me that insight.So my sitting in a room,has nothing to do with my experience in NZ. What are you on about ,i am not stating the times were the same for the sunshine coast.I am talking distances .I have driven form Sydney to GC plenty of times 900km approx. The Auckland D/Os have their own area of responsibility. People anycase who volunteer and have completed courses can assist.It is being done here in Oz. if you think distance is going to handicap development work,you are living in the horse and carriage days. Read david gallops comments he noted the fact that rugby league would now be including school participation figures ,as others have been doing,to give a real picture ofpartticipation.You suggesting he twists the truth? So you admit Jamaica has rl,but, but, but the code stays the same in 100 years, you informed us. Wally Lewis was used as an example to show participation numbers can be slanted ,as he played both.An example to emphasise my point. The school numbers in victoria(and it was about 30,000),cover registered players about 1600 odd but mainly those who have played in various school, comps of a min of 3-5 games days overall.It has been spelt out to you before,and you ignored it.Surprise. You would know all about calculators. You know doubt mentioned that as 4 NRL clubs are profitable, you should also be aware all but 4 of the top ru clubs in France are in a fragile financial state.private backers assit both the rl and ru clubs at times.It is a fact. I do know this players regardless of where they live are given an opportunity to better themselves financially will move between the codes,and that includes Otago region. The fact the west tigers crowds dropped,would have made the Roosters think otherwise.they went ahead and the crowd of 22,000 in a non rl city was better than the Tigers and great for a wet night.If you think that is a problem ,go ahead. I still don'believe Christchurch is ready for an NRL side,but who is to say it won't happen down the line. Champ I am aware of problems and the finances involving nRL clubs:the Sharks are but one example.It will happen agin to rl and ru clubs. i am not getting upset about France,i am happy that these guys have included 5 youngesters form the junior levels in teh national squad>i am happy about the future of the game in France.You are not happy that a French govt pointed the finger at your code. Reminding reality check ,the FRL had over 300,000 Frances in the bank in 1941,not union money and equipment not union equipment.The head office was burnt down.So cut the crap that assets owned by the FRL were really union's anyway.You would be laughed out of court.Your continual denial is embarrassing.

Sparcs are not the NZRL but want to make sure that the money is giving to the NZRL is well spend. Sparcs have said and made recommendations to many sports and the NZRL before many times. Many other sports have gone bust and don't receive funding even with recommendations from Sparc in the past. You know nothing at all about sports in NZ and you just believe what you want to believe. Im not going to go there with Jamaica since you havent provided any details after asking you a hundreth times to provide a link where I said that league is not played in Jamaca. It doesn't take much to know if your a Kiwi where this zones are and the distance to and from each zones but you seem to know them by sitting in your room some where in suburban Sydney or in Australia. A paranoid Australian league fan try to tell a Kiwi about travelling distance in New Zealand. Wow I know for a fact that it takes between 10 to 11 hours to travel from Auckland to Wellington (North Island) by car. I also know it took me the same or a bit longer to travel from Brisbane to Sydney yet you can fit the North Island three times between Brisbane and Sydney. Doesn't seem like afternoon drives when you compared the distance betweeen the two NZ cities and Australia cities? So you drove all over the North and Sth Island? Wel I've drove there many times including Australia and how do you explain getting from Sydney to Sunshine Coast take the same amount of time as from Auckland to Wellington? You seem to be missing the big puicture here. League is the number one sport in those states and towns in Australia you mention and each D/O's don't travel from Sydney to Queensland or Sunshine Coast. There will be D/O's already in place in towns and cities in Queensland and NSW to deal with rugby league. NZ is totally different and league is not all played in towns, cities and province here. In the past the D/O's for Northland was based in Whangarei only a few minutes away from many towns and cities in Northlands. Now the D/O's is based in Auckland a couple of hours away and dealing with not only Auckland but North Harbours and now Northlands. Im sure a ten year old kid would understand that he use to see his D/O's every second day of the week since he was based minutes away but now he would be lucky to see him one day a fortnight. From what I've read is that the former Otago coach applied for the job it wasn't nominated by the NZRL or Sparc. I didn't even mention Wally Lewis and don't worry I don't get upset knowing my code is in good health globally. I can understand you getting upset over France because you can't find any excuses why your code fail miserablely but Im just going to say this. Some French rugby clubs played league when their international team was booted out of the Five Nations and they decided to switch back to rugby so their assets and grounds already belonged to rugby anyway. Many schoolboys are counted by the ARL. Why else would you defend the numbers of Victorian rugby league juniors which jump from a few thousands to 40.000. I can see the NRL calculator at work there. Funny that I've read in an artical that rugby doesn't count the numbers of kids playing schools and clubs but AFL and Rugby league does. It wouldn't have made a different as school league is played during the week and club league on the saturday/sunday. The schools rugby comp is on the weekend at the same time as club junior rugby. Its ok for you to suggest that RL in some parts have had crowds down due to the world financial crisis in the past year but its not good enough for rugby. I also just read an artical a couple of days ago that said only four NRL clubs made a profit so you must have forgotten about that one. Im not worry that Otago, West Coast and Nelson has been in and out of rugby league and it would still be that way unless thay do what Otago has done and have the league season after the rugby season to keep the rugby players fit. Getting rugby league back at school? Im not aware that schools in Otago regions played league before. You keep going about the Warriors/Roosters game but forget to remember the West Tigers took games to Christchurch before and didn't come back after crowds fell slightly every year.

You continue to put your wording into people's posts. The NZRL run the game in NZ.Therefore they should be held responsible,just as the ARL should be held responsible for grassroots in Australia. Surprise LOL you don't think Sparc will change anything.You are the same gent who stated rugby league wasn't played n jamaica.Not a good track record for predictions.You and I have no idea how Sparc's recommendations wll go,they can't be worse. It NZ rl has already the zones,and appointment of competent qualified people in each of those zones.You know each and every one of them? You have no idea of distances judging by your comment. .In australia Qld D/Os travel to various parts of Qld ,which make driving in he Nth Isle and sth island look like afternoo drives.I have driven in both the Nth and Sth Island on a driving holiday for 3 weeks, and they are chickenfeed compared to driving to the sunshine Coast from sydney or outback NSW.So your distance argument is flawed. Please am fully awareof the demise in the past of rl in Otago.That is why they have a former Otago ru coach heading up the southern Zone. Again you are off at a tangent,no one is crying about Wally Lewis.he played both codes as a junior and preferred rugby league.He has stated so often enough.No reason for me to cry,but for you to get upset it appears. You just exhibited plain ignorance rugby league did not get its resources back in France,the 2002 commission spelt it out.Do you wish to coontinue with this bs nonsense .The money and equipment was rl property champ,not the quinziste's.Denial mode now operating. Any player that plays schoolboy or club ru or rl,would now no doubt be included in statistics. Anycase when given statistics you don;t like ,you historically dismiss them. Gee this is easy,for years rugby league did not include schoolboy playing numbers in their total statistics,whereas the AFL and ARU did.The NRL only included them in the last few years,when figures being supplied by other codes,looked completely out of kilter with reality.David gallop was quited explicit when he discussed the issue.His words it is not a level playing field ,when we have not in the past included school numbers."" Your last paragraphs say what,they ignore the fact conveniently that whilst rl has been left to wither,it is now in the throes of being revitalised.You completely continue to mumble on about the obvious that ru is the big code in NZ,and nowhere have I said otherwise.Yet S14 crowds are down and some of the clubs are losing decent money. You ignore the fact that people on the West coast,Otago ,Nelson are prepared to have a go and be involved in rugby league.A number have become accreditted as coaches,trainers and refs.if they were not interested they wouldn't do it.It is not hard for heaven's sake.Now they are working on getting rl, back into the schools,great stuff. Yes there are many part of NZ that don't play rl,just as there are many parts in Aust that don't play rl.That is why the ARL has 9 dos in Victoria. Glad you speak for everyone inNz,particularly for all the Aucklanders.Using your "guess"as a theory,people in NSW are not interested in union as they already have rugby league.Good one champ . Please show me where in the last couple of years the NZRL stated they had $4m in the bank. the current surplius of $158,000 for the 09 season,is the first since 2005,There have been losses of $200,00 in 08,and $1,7m in 07. So 20,000 plus people who attended the Roosters v Warriors match on a bitterly wet and miserable night in Christchurch are not interested in rugby league..They must be the dumbest sports fans on earth,attending a sport they are not interested in on a stormy night.Of course that is one of your negatives LOL.

It appears you don't get the fact they now have the opportunity to play another rugby code.It appears you don't get the fact that aclub comp is being played over the Island an academy has been set up for the youth.It appears you have objections to another code being played there,simpply because you dislike it.You appear not to want fijian youth the opportunity to better themselves in another sport. It also appears the code needs permssion from you to expand anywhere LOL.

Yes. The Fijian rugby kids can now also enjoy a bit of touch rugby, league, softball and AFL to stay fit for the rugby season. What don't you get?

Don't blame the NZRL because the sports is only minor in NZ for over 100 years. I don't think SPARC will ever change anything. Auckland has over 30 millions because of its carlaw park sales and investment. You will never see that money going into grassroot or the NZRL coffers. So you think zones are going to do a job that each provinces fail to do? So a guy in Auckland is going to drive five hours north to Kaitaia to start a school competition that a guy 45 minutes away in Whangarei couldn't do the previous years? You made it look like league was never played in Otago before. Otago use to have many rugby league clubs but have dissapeared. Rugby got its resourses back in France. They were rugby clubs first so the clubs just switch back when they knew the French international rugby team is back playing in the Five nations. Stop crying over Walley Lewis. He decided to tour with the OZ school team so who cares? I don't know if the ARU decided to include Lewis in its playing ranks because I don't have that information but we are more than happy for you to supply us if do. I do know about overstating as rugby league in Australia includes kids playing at schools and one day school tournaments into the same list as those playing club league on saturdays. My son played for his year ten school team in league for one day and he is now counted twice as he plays on saturdays as well. Well you seem to be more interested in whats going on in West Coast of NZ than in your own background. That rugby league town of West Coast is now just distance memories as the town is now a rugby town with many schools now playing rugby in the Crusaders Regions Championships. Wow. First Otago and now even Nelson didn't have rugby league? There are many parts of NZ that doesn't have any rugby league and if it dissapeared before in other provinces then its going to dissapeared again. People in NZ aren't interested in league bacause they already have rugby. NZRL now has $158,000? It was only a couple of years ago it claim they had $4 millions in the bank. Keep digging up the positives because you wouldn't want to know the negatives. More than 20.000 people also watched an A-League match in Christchurch and they had that before for league in Christchurch before the crowds started to fall again and the NRL club went back to Australia.

I really despair at times,when i get responses that are completely foreign to what I have typed. Err I made no such suggestion or implication that fijian kids are forced to play union..I am simply stating in black and white,the Fijian kids now have a choice.A choice champ,do you know what that means.I did not have a choice at the school I attended. What are you on about I am talking the Qld Reds lost players to the Force.At last reports the Qld reds are still operating. Who the hell is blaming ru for not having rl in schools in Fiji in the 20th century.It is now and that is all that matters from a rl fan's perspective. Anycase the Force will have competition down the line the Western Reds Mk2.

You make it sound like the Fijian kids were force to play rugby and not league. I can see another Vichy rumours coming out of this one. The schools in Fiji like many others in NZ have all got winter and summer programmes that goes way back 100 years for some. Its not our fault that the FNRL didn't decide to promote league in schools for rugby players to keep fit in 2000's. The Force never had any competitions in Perth when they enter the Super 14 . The Reds were long gone before they even got there.

Dave You and i both know NZRL was in the doldrums.the Sparc report recommendations has ensured the game will be run a hell of a lot better.The Auckland rl has $30mNZ in the bank,thanks to its property set up. There will be more schools involved in the game,as it is the remit of the various zones to grow the game.They could well have played union one day.They will have a choice,and get to play in the NRL just like Mannering did,and he came from a union playing school.RL has started up again in Otago,and there will be ru players involved.it is still a rl comp,and players may get an opportunity to go further in the game. Ru was quite happy to use rl resources and players in France,so it works both ways. RU is quite happy to use rl coaches for defense in UK/SA and Oz and people like Phil Blake at Manly ru. The players come from all backgrounds yes union too.So you are telling me its not growth.Did union not include Wally Lewis in its playing numbers ,when he was at school and played both union and league(the latter he preferred). If by definition you are not allowed to include people who play a multitude of sports in a code's numbers,then all sports including union are overstating their figures.As I played both champ,where does that leave me,as I played rl before ru. West Coast NZ recently held a rl camp at Greymouth 12/4/10 in which 240 kids attended,as well as 45 coaches ,mgrs,refs and trainers for courses.The code had run 6 camps in various venues in NZ and had over 300 people go through the new Accreditation course.. the new GM of the NZRL southern zone,the West Coast has 500 juniors and 36 teams.Nelson has relaunched a senior comp and is delivering development programmes in primary schools. The NZRL is back in the black to the tune of $158,000 in 09,after previous ordinary years. according to Steve Martin(forrmer head coach of ortago ru team a year ago,now GM of the NZ Sthn Zone on 25/5/10. Getting over 20,000 to christchurch on a wet and miserable evening to watch the Roosters v Warriors ,show further potential. You can dig up negatives,and I can dig up just as many positives,and I don't have to live there.Some players are better adapted to rl than ru.Give them the opportunity to choose.

All Black Fan. Keep up to speed,rl and ru have been played by students in Australia for decades,it is not new ask Wally Lewis,Giteau,Cross,et al. .And players will change codes til the end of time,that does not stop a code from growing.I played both at two different schools. There will be many who chose to stick with one code union or league. The players you stated went to union,they were already playing league"rugby.the Force cannibalised the Reds. And I note the freedom of expression(and resultant troies) on the field that Lote,Tahu,Rogers,and Sailor exhibited on their return. The beauty of it now , in Fiji at school they have a choice to play either rugby code,whereas up til the early 2000s it was union only. And I am sure with the new Tv contracts and more money and expansion for the NRL will ensure a bigger demand for players,giving kids from the P.I and NZ more opportunities to play our great game. The other aspect you overlook,is content required for TV both FTA and pay.Merging a code reduces content availability.Anycase rl in Australia is doing quite nicely,the ESL is a profitable code ,the game is growing in France at grassroots,and the Sparc enquiry has finally put the NZRL on notice. Lessons were learnt with News and the SL war and the possible of a World Rugby Pro Circuit when the SL war started.Both fizzled. Have to say merger possibility is getting further and further away,as both codes are doing well.Merger wouldn't get past first base by an entrepenaur.The fans will ensure that.

Similar things has happen to school rugby league here in NZ. In the 90's there were over 50 schools playing league in NZ and now there are only a handful in Auckland and one or two here and there. The league clubs have try to kill school league here in NZ because the league kids now prefer to play rugby on saturday and league on wednesday and cut playing for clubs on saturdays. The Deans Cup is the main school rugby competition in Fiji and rugby league season is played before that to get the players ready for it. They won't play it at the same time as the rugby comp because league knows all those kids are all rugby players. League has been doing this every where using rugby players, rugby clubs and rugby resources. The growth your taling about does not come from league but it comes from rugby players who play league in the off-season. This is also the main reason touch rugby was popular back in the 90's. They played their season in the league and rugby off-season.

Its good to see league offer little money it has to promote and develop rugby in Fiji. You might call it growth but its only rugby players and rugby clubs who benefit from FNRL, RLIF, RLEF and sponsorship money.

Get your facts right Matt_S. Those rugby clubs own their own fields and club house. They are only entering their league team in some pub tournament to keep their rugby players fit for the off-season. Talking about jumping the gun. There are over 600 rugby clubs in Fiji. Fiji has more rugby players than rugby league players in PNG.

Look beyond the dates and the figures and observe the trend that is even now starting to impact on both rugby codes, even here in Aust. Say goodbye to club/code loyalty as you know it. Bummed out by the likes of SBW/Gasnier/Tuqiri,Sailor etc who went to rugby? Elated by their return? Get used to it. Players will play RL one year, play RU the next. Why? Because they're good at both codes (which is essentially one sport with two sets of rules). The demand for PI'ers abilities is globally transferrable. And sooner or later, some bright spark with a lot of money will propose the inevitable: reunification. Especially as a world-class option to soccer. (PS: Those figures do show growth but how many players in those RL schools actually play both codes? Rugby Saturday, RL Sunday). Close to all. How many of the 2008 Fiji RL squad still play RL?)

I am in no need of comfort ABF thanks anyway ,however the fact more people play and participate in rugby league both in this country and overseas(with more countries participating),as per the NRL state of the game report and RLEF and RFL information,suggest to me that any notion of a merger is well and truly dead and buried. And BTW I do not have to live in those countries to form that assessment.Although I have visited Wales 03 and watched a rugby league match there,and attended a rl challenge Cup final at Wembley in 84.I have lived in my local area for years,and there are things involving other sports,I have limited knowledge about. It works both ways. I would also argue the FNRL would have some idea of what is going on in their own country ATT,as the stories were published on 16 and 17th Sept inst,and that same organisation is working at the very coalface.Suggesting they have also ample local knowledge.No one is suggesting that rl will be anything as big as ru in Fiji. Some examples of recent growth and input. 3/1/09 Ratu Kadavulevu School was added to the secondary school comp,which included Suva Grammar,Laucaia Bay Secondary,Nasinu Secondary and Lelean memorial school . 14/1/10 The RLIF has injected $100,000 to the FNRL for a period of 3 years in the build up to the 2013 RLWC. 7/5/10 Rugby league breaks new gorund this week when the FNRL sends its first ever national under 18 schoolboys tour of Australia. 14/4/10 In 1992 rugby league planted its roots in Fiji .In 18 years there is a healthy national club comp.and the introduction of the Vodaphone rl secondary school championship. In 2007 sceondary schools comp started with 6 teams.In 2008 8 teams,In 2009 10 teams and currently FNRL has 21 schools participating in the 15,16,17,18 and 19 age groups.In 2006 vodaphone announced a $300,000 ,3 year sponsorship of the Fiji Bati and rl in Fiji. Hardly cause for pessimism champ.

If it comforts you to think that, crosscoder, good on ya! As one born and raised in Fiji (and therefore more local knowledge), I would agree to disagree. And I see signs of it here in Australia, in the city and the bush.

In 1995 would have thought merging a possibility.Not anymore rugby league is able to grow with or without the addition of ru players.The Fijians now realise there is another code just as if not more exciting and easier to play than ,the one they were raised on.Welsh kids in growing numbers eg are choosing rl ,as their first code. Now the RLIF and RLEF are in place growing the game,and getting high profile sponsors such as Gillette and Alitalia on board,the game is in a stronger position to expand at a rate ,faster than that which currrently exists. The NRL will continue to go on swimmingly(sic),much to the annoyance of its sister code.

this is how unification of the rugby codes will start, people. It will be driven from outside Australia and in the end, the NRL will sink or swim

So it's all good news,hey Kovana.The Fijians now have a choice,not available before,plus the fact the FNRL now has in addition a rugby league academy..It's called international development,giving people the opportunity to try the game,from grassroots to senior level. .