Adriano Pellegrino for the Glory and Osama Malik for Queensland during the match between the Perth Glory and the North Queensland Fury in Perth, Friday, Aug. 6, 2010. (AAP Image/Tony McDonough)
In theory the FFA Cup is a winner: uniting the A-League with the grassroots of the game while satisfying the demands of football purists. But the practicalities of the tournament will determine whether it’s a success or failure.
After all, there are so many details that need to be worked out with few clues from the FFA on the makeup of the competition. And while we have been quick to praise the FFA for putting it so high on the agenda (and deservingly so), we are yet to hear the nitty gritty of how the competition would work.
The practicalities of an FFA Cup pose so many questions, such as:
Who?
Just how many state league teams will be incorporated into the competition?
As has been stressed in the last week, the FFA Cup needs to be more than a token effort in incorporating football’s second tier and beyond.
We don’t want to see just premiers of the respective state leagues included in the competition, but rather a competition that embraces as many clubs and leagues as possible.
The problem here is finding a happy medium between practicality and a Utopian competition, a la the FA Cup in England.
It obviously needs to be commercially viable for A-League clubs – preferably one that can open up another revenue stream – and affordable for their much smaller state league counterparts, particularly with the prospect of significant travel for those clubs.
Perhaps the FFA is openly discussing a Cup competition to test the waters for potential sponsors and broadcasters. After all, the competition is likely to need a naming rights sponsor or the like to bankroll the travel costs for state league teams and sell the competition to punters.
It would be great if clubs from different state leagues could meet in the preliminary rounds, rather than keep them in their respective states, but obviously travel costs could preclude that.
If finances don’t allow, the FFA should resist the temptation to include as few state leagues clubs as possible and consider a state-based opening few rounds system, so, for example, Victorian teams met up until a certain point before the competition opens up and goes national.
They key point here is hopefully as many state league clubs as possible are incorporated.
What?
Let’s get this straight: a knockout Cup competition may part of the football’s makeup, but it isn’t in Australia’s sporting landscape.
Australia’s sporting codes exist around one single competition and prize.
There are no secondary competitions in addition to the main premiership races (ignoring pre-season competitions, which don’t overlap with the seasons proper). There’s only won prize AFL clubs battle over, for example.
Bearing this in mind, the FFA Cup may be a hard sell beyond football purists.
And with an FFA Cup, the A-League regular season and finals series, would the game be confusing an already disinterred market with two separate competitions (three if you consider the A-League finals series separate)?
That’s surely a concern considering the struggle to sell the A-League to mainstream Australia.
And further to that point is whether the FFA Cup’s creation should force the FFA to do away with the A-League finals series; mimicking the European game with the league awarded to the top of the table team after the home and away season and the knockout competition satisfying the demands for a grand finale.
That debate will surely rear its head, fuelling the argument for those who are against an A-League finals series.
When?
Timing is critical. With the FFA finally acknowledging future A-League seasons may be pushed back to an October start, to avoid the AFL/NRL overlap, the FFA Cup could help fill the void in August-September. Unlike pre-season tournaments and matches, it will certainly mean more.
But the knockout competition needs to be carefully assimilated into the football calendar so as not to disrupt the A-League season’s momentum too severely, or to disappear from view for an extended period.
It’ll be a delicate balance if it overlaps with the A-League season.
And will it really start in 2011? Is the FFA being a tad over-ambitious in setting a possible start date of next year, at a time when the focus should perhaps be on saving the fledgling Sydney Rovers franchise and solidifying a 12-team A-League?
2011 is the year when the Asian Football Confederation will review Asian Champions League allocations, and without a promotion and relegation system from a second-tier league, a knockout competition is the only means to try and satisfy the AFC’s demands.
But let’s hope the FFA isn’t rushing the creation of the competition, and enough consideration is given to how it will work and who will be involved.
Getting those details right will be imperative to the competition’s wellbeing and achieving its desired goal: uniting the top tier of the game to the lower tiers.
Where?
The FFA Cup is a chance for the game to get into suburban grounds, away from the giant stadiums it struggles to fill.
It’s a chance for the game to get into the heart of its communities. A chance for state league clubs and players to show their worth on a bigger stage and a chance for A-League clubs to get into their respective state communities and sell themselves to the disenfranchised fans who never embraced them.
The latter can only be achieved if the FFA Cup, as opposed to the A-League, has a suburban base.
Ultimately, however, one key question hovers over the proposed FFA Cup: will it act as an olive branch between the A-League and the lower tiers of the game, namely former NSL supporter bases?
Many see the FFA Cup as “new football” finally embracing “old soccer”, to borrow a phrase from the Crawford Report.
Some may fear that the knockout competition could further polarise the dichotomy between “old” and “new” – an “us” against “them” mentality could emerge.
However, an FFA Cup would finally link the A-League to the grassroots, uniting tiers – and that can only bring about positive developments, hopefully burying the divide brought about by the A-League’s creation.
It would force A-League clubs into direct contact with the grassroots, through state leagues clubs, and that can only be a good thing for both their sakes.
With relegation and promotion not an option in the Australian game (it would be a sure way to kill-off support for already financially strained clubs), it’s the only option to embrace clubs such as South Melbourne, Adelaide City and co into a national competition, giving them a chance to compete in something greater than their state leagues.
The FFA Cup is the vehicle to unite football in this country, but it needs to be done right, with the key questions of who, what, where and when needing to be carefully considered before it is rushed into.
Evan Askew
Guest
I'm really excited about the prospect of an Australian FFA Cup. In fact we had something very similar in Australia with the NSL Cup. By the time I started watching the NSL when Brisbane Strikers joined, the competition had become a knock out competition with just the teams from the NSL, but I looked on the OZ Football website which has the results, crowds and tables for every NSL and A league season and many of the VPL and NSWPL games and in the early years of the NSL the cup included many state league teams. In fact my local side, Grange Thistle once got to the second round. (their first round was a bye) I reckon the cup is a good idea but there are some things that must not be done. Firstly no group stages like they have in the champions league. The magic of the FA cup is in the upsets you see every year, which sees really small teams often enjoy runs into the later stages of the comp, a group stage will ensure that no state league teams get through, which will kill any interest in the competition from that quarter. I see this as the most essential element of an Australian FFA cup and I really sometimes doubt whether FFA have the sense to see this. If possible, and I know this favours the State league teams at the expense of the A league teams, cup ties should be played at the home ground of the state league team. I am sure many of the fans of the a league side will deem a clash against Sunshine George Cross or Taringa Rovers not worthy of their attendance which means the stadium will be empty for the clash, but Melbourne Heart vv Sunshine George Cross at Chaplin Reserve or Perh Glory v Perth City at their nice little stadium will be packed out which will look better on TV. Furthermore it may go some way in briding the gap between new football and old soccer. It will also put somethng back into the grass roots comminity. The most a state league team gets from a transfer of a player to an A league club is $3000. Having a horde of Melbourne VIctory fans drink all of South Melbourne's Uzo at the bar would create some income for the state league club.
Evan Askew
Guest
The VPL gets bigger crowds than the NSWPL if I'm not mistaken?
Danny
Guest
So it's agreed. No one agrees.
Wes
Guest
Afl doesn't have 1 prize, it got 2 ( premiership and nab cup)
Stevo
Guest
I follow the A-League (GO ROAR) as much as I can but I also support my local club (Rochedale Rovers) with an equal amount of passion. For a successful club such as Rochedale (in comparison with other Brisbane Prem teams) this would be an awesome opportunity. Hosting Melbourne Victory (or similar) just once a year would be an absolute boon to this club and any of the smaller clubs. But to see them progress into the final 8 or better would be amazing. I think this is too good an opportunity to waste.
Timmuh
Guest
That may be true, but is the reverse also true? Could a strong state league side get a huge turnout for their one crack at Sydney FC? Particularly in regional areas, the chance to take on the big boys would be huge for the game's fans in that area. That is unlikely with local clubs, as they won't get that far in the competition. But if some regions (eg Darwin or Hobart) with weak clubs could play a rep side instead the chance to host the Victory or Sydney FC would be a massive local event.
RobD
Guest
If they can get a major sponsor and just see this as a way of generating some goodwill in the community and rebuilding bridges then fine. But they have to be prepared to run this at a loss for a loooooong time. If Sydney FC can only get 7000 midweek to watch the competition leaders AU on a Wednesday night there is no way they are going to get more than that to watch a team of amateurs like say Adelaide City at the same time. You *might* generate some interest if it was one of the bigger, local former NSL clubs (e.g. Marconi or United in Sydney) but to rely on something like that to occur at random is pretty risky. The other thing is that if it begins before the A-League season proper it is just going to be seen like the pre-season cup all over again and crowds will likely reflect it. I guess the prize has to make it worth it (ACL spot maybe...).
Hooplah
Guest
Put simply, a Euro concept that has utterly no point or validity in Australia. Wake up folks, look where you are living. This is not England.
Stevo
Guest
Seriously, what's in it for the state based teams? Many are of the NSL vintage who believe they should have had a chance to enter the A-league. The article has spoken long about A-league teams connecting with the grass roots but the state based teams think that's their patch and the A-league teams are intruders. What matters for the state based teams is revenue to keep their patch alive. I'm sure they'll want a slice of the ACL action and I wouldn't disagree with them. If in the Cup we can find the best state team in Oz then they should get one of the three ACL spots. That would be a meaningful incentive and then we might find the football family starting to unite.
Marshall
Guest
If they are going to get serious about the Cup and give it as much of a chance to succeed then they need to scrap the finals otherwise it's too much of the same thing. -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.
james
Guest
If the state leagues go to summer and be side by side with the a-league and if sydney rovers come in as 12th team well here is perhaps what lies ahead. A-league 12 teams Between roughly Sept 1-Apr 30, 27 Rounds (5 extra rounds of derbies, rivalries) Friday night 8pm Saturday night 5pm (N.Z game) 7pm 9pm (W.A, Qld teams host games) Sunday 5pm 7pm (W.a, QLD teams host games) 2 weeks off in the a-league season 4 week finals series with a week off in the finals series to help off set the asian champs league involvement. FFA CUP July/August state league teams qualifying to round of 32 September/October 2 games on wednesday night for 8 weeks (RD of 32) November 2 games on wednesday night for 4 weeks (RD of 16) December 1 game on wednesday night for 4 weeks (QF) January Semi Finals and CUP Final on wednesday night A Team can play up to 31 a-league games, 5 FFA cup games, and 12 ACL games totaling 48 games.
thinker
Guest
With the NSWPL going to summer, I think that the FFA should spare no hesitation in giving that league and only that league 2nd teir recognision with FIFA and AFC as well as P&R rights between that league and A-League. The NSWPL is the only league we could realistically build a 2nd div from. That league will probably blow out to 20-22 before going back down to 18 (a NSWPL + guests if you will) we could probably do this next couple of seasons as well as an FFA Cup so if in the future we have a A2(18) and a A1(14) theres the 32 the other 36 can come from blending in the current state final series' together so it would work like this R1 36(top 4 x 9[NSW WSL included]) *state based R2 36 ( R1 winners v A2) R3 32( R2 winners + A1) R4 16 R5 8 R6 4 R7 2
Joe FC
Guest
I can see the concept of a cup competition becoming just another brickbat with which to berate the FFA. No matter what unfolds somebody will have something to complain about. The likelihood that what starts off in year one will be very different from what’s happening in year ten and beyond will not mollify those predisposed to instant gratification. By all means let’s compose a wish list, but we need to address it with a big dose of reality.
Rob
Guest
Whats exactly wrong with the FA cup model? Local qualifying rounds, moving to country wide mid competion with the highest league seeded into the last rounds, I think its the ideal model. The true romance of a cup competition is the notion that it is open to every team in the country. Airfares cost nothing these days, and are a good excuse for a bit of a community fundraiser. As for cups being a football peculiarity, I seem to remember leagues wed night Amco Cup being a huge success when I was a kid...or was that just because it was the one night of the week i was allowed to stay up late?
Whites
Guest
With an FFA Cup the structure is all about the numbers. 32,16,8,4,2 and 1 winner. How many teams enter the draw? When do the A-league teams enter? The good folk at wikipedia have kindly listed the league system in Australia(assuming its all up to date-I checked through to the league websites)- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_football_(soccer)_league_system So we have: A-League=12 teams, State Leagues=NSW-12 teams, VIC-12 teams, WA-12 teams,QLD-8 teams,SA-10 teams (TOTAL=54 teams) Smaller States/Territories/Regionals=ACT-10 teams,NNSW-8 teams,TAS(N+S)-19 teams, NT-8 teams(TOTAL=45 teams) The 2nd division state leagues of NSW/VIC are probably stronger then some of these regional teams so thought should be given as to whether or not they should be included in early preliminary rounds. If the A-league teams enter at the round of 16 that means only 4 lower league teams can qualify. I suggest it is better that A-league teams enter at the round of 32. This means 20 teams from lower leagues go into the round of 32 draw with the 12 A-league clubs. Early qualifying rounds should be regional until 40 lower league teams remain. These 40 teams play-off in the first inter-regional round to qualify for the round of 32. The 40 teams would be made up of 13 from NSW/ACT, 10 from VIC/TAS, 8 from QLD, 5 from WA and 4 from SA/NT. For the early years it could remain regional until the 20 teams that go in the round of 32 draw are decided. 32 teams. 5 rounds and we have a winner.
Whites
Guest
From 1974 until 1989 the NSWRL did have a knockout comp. It was a modelled on the UK's Challenge Cup(itself modelled on the FA Cup). It included not only the NSWRL teams but also teams representing other areas(Port Moresby, Country NSW, various QLD country and BRL teams, other state teams and NZ teams). The other teams changed from year to year. As the game became more full-time professional the NSWRL didn't want to be involved in these midweek games.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
My vision would be for the FFA Cup; 1. Who * open to every registered senior football team in Australia * the early rounds would be State-based In England's FA Cup, the 20 EPL teams only enter the competition in the "3rd round proper" - when there are 64 teams in the competition, so I would have the 12 A-League teams entering the FFA Cup when there are 32 teams left in the competition. So, in the "round of 32" we'd have: a) 12 HAL teams b) 20 teams drawn from the State-based preliminary round. * Perhaps: NSW (4), Vic (4), Qld (3), SA (3), WA (3), Tas (1), ACT (1), NT (1) 2. When State football comepetitions run from April-September so I would envisage the Final being held in late August before the AFL & NRL finals. If the A-League proper is, henceforth, going to commence in October then this FFA Cup will be an ideal meaningful pre-season competition for the HAL teams 3. Where Just like the FA Cup every round the teams are randomly drawn out of a pot and the 1st name drawn for each match is the home team. So, MVFC could end up playing The Western Eagles at the Polish Sports & Rec. Centre in Albion (this would certainly test loyalties amongst some of my mates!) 4. The FFA Cup final Unlike the English FA Cup, which is always held at neutral Wembley, I would rather the FFA Cup adopt either: a) a "roving final venue" as the UCL Champions League. Of course this may result in the final being played by 2 interstate teams; or b) one of the finalists to have the home ground advantage - either chosen by random or based on "goals scored"
Tempo
Guest
I'm facinated how the debate around an FFA Cup goes. One topic I haven't seen discussed "what age group?" Is it just going to be about senior mens teams of state league clubs - i.e just appeasement of former NSL clubs. Or is it going to be more like a national Champion of Champions cup involving Men, women, boys and girls teams from U13 to Over 45s? The latter would engage all of grassroots and not just a couple of mens teams and be a great football development initative. Definely needs a sponsor(s) to cover travel costs though. Even clubs covering travel costs inside their state can be problematic as we have seen in the FNSW Champions of Champions tournament.
agga78
Guest
The FFA cup is for the football community, the mainstream public won't be interested, but football people, know the joys of watching a much lesser team play at home in front of 3000 people against the top clubs of that country and getting a result, a draw or win. The state teams must play early rounds within their state against the top 3-4 divisions and then the A league team(s) come in with at least one sate team guaranteed progression into the national part of the competition. An FFA is a chance to get football on free to air TV aswell, with one hd the logical choice, it also helps in the process of getting an extra ACL spot for Australia, I think the positives out weigh the negatives and it gives football another point of difference to other codes.
Hoolifan
Guest
Have serious doubts about this concept. It's all very romantic and that but I just doubt it adds up. In Europe, the FA Cup, Italian Cups etc.. are just not as big as they were once upon a time. The emphasis is on the continental comps now as that is where the big money is. You do not risk stars on small fixtures. In Australia these clubs that would play A-League sides have tiny followings. So your attendances will be tiny. The A League regulars won't go because they are playing amateur/semi pro teams. It is a VERY flawed concept. We have the League and AFC Champs League, this comp is pointless.