Old Firm rivalry simply cannot be beat

Swansea v Cardiff last year at the new OSpreys ground was manic. The crowd was perhaps the biggest gathering of Chav's the isles have ever seened. joggers, bad hair cuts and drunkeness was the order of the day.

Interestingly Rob, Eurorivals.net gave Porto Alegre derby only 3 stars. But then again Man City v Man Utd and Liverpool v Everton are also given 3 stars. footballderbies.com gave the Porto Alegre derby a 7.3 compare to Corinthians v Palmeiras who rated an 8. Anyway, these list are just a reason to have a debate. In the end, the most important derbies are the ones your team plays in. I found some video of Grêmio vs Inter. Gremio played with 10 men in the second half after a player got sent off for performing a spectacular save. Its on the vid. http://eurorivals.net/gremio:sc-internacional-highlights-goals-video_20101025.html

Dont worry its not

Con, that's probably because there is a very deep rivalry betwee Palmeiras and Corinthians that developed due a split in Corinthians that, in part, created Palmeiras back in the day. That said, almost every game in which Corinthians plays could be considered a Derby - there is a classic joke: Who is your team? I have two teams: Grêmio and whoever is playing Corinthians this weekend! As for the Fla vs Flu, that derby has only recently been reinvigorated, after Fluminense started to return to some form after a few years of pretty terrible results. Maybe that's why it's not rated so highly. Where did the Grêmio vs Inter derby rate on that list, Art? On the weekend the return match of the derby was played at the Estádio Olímpico Monumental (Grêmio's home), and it was a cracker - 50K in the stands, and a thrilling 2-2 draw (which was annoying for me, because Grêmio is supposed to win all of these derbies!) And there was more at stake than just local bragging rights - Grêmio is climbing the table on the back of an incredible run of results in the Campeonato Brasileiro, and fast catching Inter and the others sitting in the Libertadores qualification spots. this draw at home represents a lost opportunity, especially as we were leading twice, only for Inter to peg us back both times. I really can't believe that the Old Firm derby is the best derby in the world.

I have been to a few old firm games and it should be remembered that the hatred begins at the start of the day and ends that night. Many of the supporters are freinds and workmates for the whole year except for those four games a year (excluding cup games) Some will say there is no place for "hatred" in a game. I would say that in the sterilised world of Liberalism that we live in, this game harks back to when men were men and sheep were frightened

The SPL and the leagues below should just become like the number of regional semi-pro leagues that are around England and let the old firm teams join the big league.

Belfast Celtic v Linfield was the big one until Belfast Celtic withdrew in 1949. Although both Linfield and Glentoran have Protestant/Unionist fanbases, they hate each other with a passion. Glentoran never subscribed to sectarianism either- John Colrain, a Catholic and a Celtic man, was one of their most successful managers. Up until the 80s, the part-time clubs of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland were actually competitive in Europe. They gave many bigger names a real fright then.

There are no doubt long standing reasons for the rivalry that exists in the Old Firm, but most of us have the ability to live our lives and keep the sporting contest in context. For example, on Sunday a friend who happens to be a Celtic supporter was welcomed to my house and we sat and enjoyed a highly passionate encounter that my team won. We even managed to share a few beers without wanting to throttle each other. He comes from a mixed religion family from Glasgow that has supporters of both teams and we go the Brisbane Roar games together also. Now, for a local derby that especially during the 1980's had a fearsome reputation I doubt many could compare to Linfield v Cliiftonville, some very hairy moments in Belfast in those days while watching those fixtures both on and off the pitch.

David, many, many nations have histories that go back centuries. Divisions that occured in society due to various factors, and which are alive today, are often reflected in football rivalries. I disagree that Spanish or Scottish divisions are any more deep or profound than those of a myriad of other countries. What is different is that due to a vibrant diaspora and a longer history of professional football in Scotland, this rivalry is better known. Some divisions are so acute that football is unable to cope. You don't think it's an accident that Jerusalem only has one team do you?

Ahhh this is a common myth. The Edinburgh derby does not have the sectarian element in it. Although Hibs are a club with Irish roots, they long renounced any ties to the sectarian struggle. It is more a Leith v Gorgie or west v east of Edinburgh clash.

"Worst teams ever" is quite accurate. It's interesting how Rangers had their barren run in the 1980-86 years, and Celtic in 1988-94 (when they were nearly bankrupt), yet there were players in those teams that Rangers and Celtic would kill for these days. Rangers had Davie Cooper, Bobby Russell and Jim Bett, whereas Celtic had Paul McStay and John Collins. Add to that, Rangers are paying financially for the excesses of their 9 in a row and Advocaat years. David Murray was typical of the business mentality that led to the GFC- a showman rather than an astute businessman. It speaks volumes for Celtic's incompetence that they are incapable of making more of their comparatively healthier financial state.

Just because this is the only derby you have experienced doesn't make it the biggest or most intense derby. It would be like me saying that the Boca/River derby is the biggest because I was in Buenos Aires for one of them. Each to their own but don't try and one up someone else just because you support one of the teams - it smacks of small mindedness and lack of tolerance for other fans. Much like not having a tolerance someone else's religious views . . . oh wait.

I went to the Chelsea match on saturday and was sadly let down by the lack of atmosphere. Sounds like I need to spend my next soccer/football pounds on this rivalry or a German match (I heard they are very quiet at Spanish matches).

missing Melbourne Heart v Victory and Brisbane Roar v Gold Coast United!

With their current playing roster you would be right. But you seem to be forgetting one thing - MONEY! How much money would the Old Firm be able to generate, if accepted in to the English league system?? Not only from TV money, but sponsorships, organisations already pay them rather well for being in a Mickey Moose league, stick them in arguable the biggest set-up and the money they receive now will be seen as loose change. Then when you add in the worldwide appeal and fan base both clubs have, it won't be long until both clubs are monster clubs/reach their full potential (they will forever remain huge clubs regardless where they play). So you may believe they won't get past Championship level, but I will disagree.

IMO (but I am biased) the Old Firm derby tops the rest, in saying that, to each set of fans (regardless where you are from/who you support) you teams and their biggest rival are the matches of all matches/rivalry of all rivalries. As for the sectarian issues, both clubs are working hard at fixing it. But like a lot of Scotland (especially in the west), along with Ireland, there are still social/community issues that will always show it's ugly face, football is just one of the venues it shows it's self. As a posted said early - A lot of fans are bigots for 90mins or so. As for the standard, both teams have their worst teams ever (although last seasons Celtic were slightly worse), and will continue in a downward spiral unless something changes. Whether the changes be a whole revamp of the Scottish game from grassroots to the national team, be it the Old Firm getting a move out to either the English leagues or something like the 'Atlantic League' idea that was floated a few years ago. Whatever it is, so something needs to change, and change fast. Now with that all said and done, regardless as to what happens, the Old Firm derby is the best by far.

Derbies mean everything to the people involved in them, even if others don't understand. Look at the Darlington-Hartlepool rivalry- two clubs who've never been higher than the third level of football, but the rivalry is taken seriously and derbies big events for fans of those teams. Of the English derbies, the Bristol Derby is always a heated affair. But the Midlands derbies have such intensity of passion, like Wolves v West Brom, Birmingham City v Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest v Derby County- the hate is very real and raw and the players just know it and feel it!

I think few have been as deep and profound as they are in Scotland and Spain because they date back centuries, namely the conflicts that underpin them. Because the wounds out of those, and out of more recent conflicts like the Balkans and Caucasus, have never healed and the problems that caused and caused by them have never been resolved. In Spain, people still recall the Carlist Wars and Civil War, all sides of those wars commemorate events regularly in a similar manner to what we see in Northern Ireland, but seemingly less publicised or controversial outside of Spain.

yeeee how is flamengo v fluminense not that. thats masssssssive. i would have thought bigger than palmeiras vs corinthians