So it is confirmed. Not since Ned Hughes and Karl Ifwersen, way back in 1921, has a former New Zealand Rugby League representative played for the All Blacks.
Barring an untimely injury (not entirely out of the realms of possibility for the former Bulldogs Second-Rower) Sonny Bill Williams will take to the hallowed turf of the old Cabbage Patch that is Twickenham. The spiritual home of English rugby.
He will play at Centre, a vital position requiring a combination of art and science. A position that has been graced by many legends of All Black Rugby; Bert Cooke, Johnny Smith, Bruce Robertson, Frank Bunce and Tana Umaga to name but a few.
The ability to run or pass your wingers into space has always been the most prized attribute of an outstanding All Black centre, or any player for that matter, but especially so of the man who in modern times wears the number 13 on his back.
Williams has a Meads-like propensity to carry the ball in one hand and a Laidlaw-like propensity to release that ball to the exact spot he wishes it, coupled with his undoubted size, speed and strength, he makes an outstanding attacking weapon. This much has been proven in the ITM Cup.
However, one should balance the assessment of Williams’ attacking credentials in such a competition with the example of one S. Donald (Waikato) who by all accounts was also “carving it up” in the very same ITM Cup.
Johnny Smith and Bruce Robertson were glorious exponents of the attacking art and whilst Williams is not yet Raphael, he has his brushes and palette at the ready. Yet questions still remain over that other fundamental tenet of a great centre’s game – Defence.
Frank Bunce and Tana Umaga rank amongst the best practitioners of this sometimes brutal science. One aspect of Williams’ defence cannot be questioned.
The man can tackle.
But Jonah Lomu could tackle too – just ask Ben Tune. As former Sonny Bill Williams cheerleader, Phil Gould, commented during the recent Kangaroos v England test: “There’s a big difference between being a good tackler and a good defender… a big difference.”
It should be safe to assume that, since Williams’ selection as an All Black, the coaching staff would have been concentrating on teaching Williams the defensive systems that the All Blacks would look to employ.
This would be even more of a concern after the erratic defensive display in Hong Kong.
Yet, one would also have made the same assumption of Robbie Deans and the Wallaby coaching staff when a relatively inexperienced Timana Tahu took the field in similar circumstances in 2008.
Williams will not face a rampant Springbok midfield of Jean De Villiers and Adrian Jacobs on the high veldt at Ellis Park, such was the situation confronting Tahu. Shontayne Hape and Mike Tindall look to be a far less intimidating examination of his credentials at test level, but it comes in the white-cold atmosphere of Twickenham all the same.
The Da Vinci of centres last pulled on the All Black Jersey, or a white one in Bert Cooke’s case in 1930; a centre who had attacking art and defensive science in abundance.
Ironically Cooke then played rugby league becoming a Kiwi representative in the process. Williams is the first in 89 years to do what he has done and nobody expects him to do what Cooke did 80 years ago either, but it would be nice to see some signs of it against England.
Rugby Fan
Roar Guru
Well, what do you know. England have selected Banahan at centre for Samoa. A lot sooner than I'd have expected but I suppose that's the kind of flexibility you can afford as a manager when you've got a good win under your belt.
abnutta
Roar Guru
On the evidence of his first outing for the All Blacks I'm a little disappointed. There's no denying the fact that there were massive expectations of his performance on debut for the All Blacks. If I think back to the best All Black backs of the past 10 years and weigh up the expectations with the evidence of their debuts/run-on debuts we may perhaps have a better appreciation. Fullback: Muliaina was an unexpected instant success at Fullback after playing much of the 2003 S12 (including the final) at Centre. He was replacing a discarded Cullen however but fair to say the expectations were relatively low. Wings: Doug Howlett blitzed the Tongan defence and scored a try with his first touch of the ball, 22 seconds into his test rugby career. Expectations were high. Delivered on his promise. Joe Rokocoko was in scorching form in 2003 S12. The high expectations were not lived upto during a quiet debut versus England. By the end of the year he had set a new world record for test try scoring in a calendar year. Centres: Conrad Smith went on tour in 2004 mainly as a backup to Mauger and Umaga. Low expectations but ended the tour playing outside of Umaga in the showpiece test v France. Aaron Mauger scored a try on debut versus Ireland in 2001 delivering on his promise after a fine season for Canterbury in the NPC. Halves: Daniel Carter had big boots to fill in 2003. Although playing mainly at 2nd/5 everyone saw him as the natural successor to Mehrtens. 1 try and 20 points on debut. Piri Weepu was in much the same vein as Conrad Smith, touring in 2004 as backup to Byron Kelleher so he had relatively low expectations of his debut against Wales. In summary Muliaina - Low expectations - Pass Howlett - High expectations - Pass Rokocoko - High expectations - Fail Smith - Low expectations - Pass Mauger - High expectations - Pass Carter - High expectations - Pass Weepu - Low expectations - Fail SBW - High expectations - Fail
Winston
Guest
Well that says to me that he played 13.
Dave
Guest
sbw has alot of work to do before having a regular spot on the ab's. its not easy and i saw his defence was a bit off and missing a couple of times. http://tvnz.co.nz/all-blacks/sbw-six-pack-has-its-attractions-3884334 It is possible Williams will move in a spot to second five-eighth against the Scots so he can continue his rugby education alongside Conrad Smith, providing New Zealand's first choice centre has recovered from a minor hamstring strain. Advertisement Despite Williams critical role in Gear's try and England's inability to expose him defensively, Smith said his work at the tackle still needed finessing. "We've been working on him being able to run off players, to push out to the next man and work for the team (in defence)," Smith said. His defensive alignment also needed adjusting to fit a rugby backline. "We want him to keep turning up in defence, you can't do that if you turn in like he was used to doing in rugby league. "It's been a big work on and the next part of that work on is you've got to get him to finish the tackle off. "We've got bit of work to do so he actually completes the tackle rather than just keep pushing them (opponents)."
jus de couchon
Guest
Was at Twickers. SBW is a big unit and did a couple of good things. He looked a bit like a fish out of water though. Like most league imports he might be best on the wing.
Wal The Hooker
Guest
Not bloody wrong there WPZ! Poor bastards are constantly under pressure win or lose... No matter what its never good enough for some. I think this ABs side is right up there with the best, but unfortunately that black jersey will always be under intense scrutiny at times damn ugly. Great win by WBs on the weekend showed some steel to keep going will be a very interesting season next year...
Wal The Hooker
Guest
GB where did that come from! I think you miss the thrust of this thread old chap... The guys are having a laugh about commentators. Wakey wakey
djfrobinson
Guest
anyone interested in the AB game tonight apparely there is a live stream on http://www.2youp.com/ Mods. I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post links, if not please advise i will remove it. Thanks
Sammy
Guest
Joe Rothocoko did not play S-rugby before he was selected for AB's.
Mick Gold Coast QLD
Roar Guru
Thanks Warren - I did wonder where she developed her obvious knowledge & a search of Sky hadn't helped me.
Rugby Fan
Guest
The choices are even more up in the air than that. You've left out Hipkiss and don't forget Erinle turned out for England last year when the squad was depleted. Both Armitage and Simpson-Daniel sometimes play for their clubs in the position too. The only firm decision England have really taken is not to consider Wilkinson as an out-and-out centre. I don't think there was much will to do this anyway. However, when he has been chosen, he's often switched with the inside centre during the game. That was workable with Catt and possible with Flutey (Ashton even tried it with Farrell during the 2007 World Cup) but you couldn't do it with a combination like Tindall and Hape. Tait never had his position in the centre secure but he was once a front-runner and is one of the most obvious casualties after the tour last summer. England do seem to value size in the position and it's not out of the realms of possibility that Banahan might feature there for England. I'm unconvinced about him as a Test winger, and there probably isn't enough time for him to play himself into contention as a centre in time for the World Cup, but it might happen at some stage if nothing else seems to click.
Ben S
Roar Guru
He didn't, Winston. He played half his games at 12 and half at 13. Significantly, the latter part of William's French career was spent at 12, Winston.
dunc
Guest
Sonny Bill Williams is the best thing to happen in world rugby this year. He will bring crowds to the game. The coaching staff will have drilled in moves around playing at 13. The Bulldogs management were a pack of ratbags and they deserved it when he walked out. He was far too big a name for the Bankstown mob and they couldn't handle that truth. He has done his apprenticeship in France. All the SBW haters can't see past their own prejudices. Shame. Picking him for the England match is a masterful move. He will thrive in the big match environment. Nonu and Williams together will be electric. Wake up armchair critics, this is fantastic for our great game! end of rant.
goldenbull
Guest
all blacks no being a dirty team is complete rubish! and you say they're not arrogant? what a laugh. they're now (some all black players) saying that the all blacks shouldnt play the wallabies so many times in a year, yet if the all blacks had of won the last game the players would be singing a different song im sure.... maybe along the lines of 'playing the wallabies is always a great experience and we would play them more if we could' illegal moves from scrums that look rehersed, nonu off the ball with his thugary,thorn with his arrogance off the ball and to opposition after a try, mccaw and his very unsportsman tactics or gentle pusshing of players whilst trying to get back in cover defence, mccaw kicking after being cleaned out, the desperations that they might lose leads to eligal tactics....open your eyes, they may seem gracious in victory but why wouldnt you be? just look at the press conference for the all blacks after their loss in hong kong. what a joke! some reporters directed questions to Mccaw who was so gracious in defeat he would make a face to the question, talk from the corner of his mouth to his coach then instead of answering the question would simply point to his coach for him to answer it. open your eyes hahahaha seriously
Wiremu
Guest
Ian Jones is painful to watch. So is that smurf Scott Robinson he really rates himself quite highly. Justin Marshall and Grant fox are informative and likeable. Melodie is also very good
katzilla
Roar Guru
I couldn't agree more. The Kamo Kid for all his great rugby years is toneless when interviewing and is derogatory towards the ITM teams that don't have a S14 team. The Interview with McCaw and Elsom after the Honk Kong win was about as bland as rock soup.
Ben S
Roar Guru
Perhaps, BennO. They do say that 13 is the toughest defensive back channel to work, so you may have a point. I don't think that Tindall would test Williams in the same way that O'Driscoll would, but if Henry though Hape was playing it makes more sense IMO to select one ex-league rookie at 12 against another. Tindall is a key man for England, so I think Henry has selected Williams there to a) test him as a player (Williams) , and b) maybe because he thinks he can do a job on Tindall? I think size comes into the debate as well. Hape and Tindall are far bigger than D'Arcy and O'Driscoll or Bishop and Shanklin.
Ben S
Roar Guru
The midfield is probably England's greatest area of concern, that and 7, but there isn't a paucity of options or excess of foreign players, it's just whether they fit into the gameplan that Johnson is pursuing. For example, Olly Barkley has been one of the premiership's best performers over the past two seasons, but Johnson wants a more direct 12, hence Flutey and Hape. 12: Flutey, Barkley, Barritt, Allen, Turner-Hall, Eves 13. Waldouck, Clarke, Smith, Vickermann, Lowe, Tait Turner-Hall is too limited IMO. He's not that powerful or not that fast, and his distribution isn't up to Test standard.
damo
Guest
Agree Wazza , a bit more gratitude.... eh? We win one in eleven and some otherwise intelligent NZ fans are too mean to let us have the victory without reference to 'luck', 'selection mistakes' and the old 'ref mistake'. As great as NZ rugby is it seems to breed an unrealistic expectation that the team from NZ must, should, will - win 'em all. Agree McCaw is similar to Eales in his statesmanship.
warrenexpatinnz
Guest
Grant's very good but I think he almost seems jaded by the negative comments he hears about the ABs and I think he like most ex ABs just want this present AB side to hold the cup up and for the minority of fans who constantly dig at them, the ABs even if they win, to shut up and appreciate how good this side and previous sides have been to win so many matches and have the outstanding record the ABs have over time. Wallabies win one good game and us Aussies are happy, the ABs win ten in a row against the Wallabies and go unbeaten through the TN but some of their supporters still doubt and bag them. Go figure