Football Federation Australia should base its Cup competition next season on the UEFA Champions League, if it is going to include a group stage.
If there is an 11-team A-League next season, that would leave 21 spots for clubs from the state and territories. That could be four each from NSW, Victoria and Queensland. Western Australia and South Australia could have three representatives each, while Tasmania, ACT and Northern Territory would have one each. (This is only a rough idea of how the 21 other spots could be made up.)
That would mean a 32-team Cup competition, which would be divided into eight groups of four.
Clubs would then play each other home and away during October and November.
The groups should be decided randomly by a draw, so there could be one group with four A-League clubs or a group with just state league sides.
This would make it easier for state and territory clubs, because the Cup competition would follow on from their various seasons.
For example, the top four NSW Premier League clubs would know that making the finals means they have an extra six games as part of the cup competition.
The top two of each group would then qualify for the knockout stages, which would start in February.
This would mean the state and territory teams that qualify would be able to use the knockout stages as part of their pre-season.
The knockout stages should be home and away before a one-off final. So the two teams to make the final would play a total of 13 games each.
The games could be played midweek, with maybe one or two each round telecast along with a weekly highlights package.
The final, like the Champions League, could be played on a Saturday night at a ground that would maximise the crowd figure.
No doubt people will disagree with this idea and propose an FA Cup-style straight knockout competition.
But this option would provide a minimum of six games for each side and over a few years the FFA would be able to see the difference in standards between the A-League and various state and territory leagues.
That would no doubt help with any plans for a second-tier competition in the future.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
This is what Cup Football is all about ... You can have the biggest drawn to play against the biggest ... Manchester United and Liverpool will meet in the third round of the 2010/11 FA Cup after the English giants were drawn to play each other at Old Trafford in the last 64 of the world's oldest major knockout football competition.; or, one of the smallest playing against the one of the biggest ... Non-league side York has been drawn to play away at EPL high-flyers, Bolton, who are currently sitting 6th on the EPL table.
The Clint
Guest
I personally would prefer the knock out format, however I think that a group stage set up would be fantastic for scouting purposes. State league teams playing a minimum of 3-6 games would give bigger clubs a great look at what other great talent is running around. Overall I think group stage would be better for possible future development, but I do prefer a straight knock out competition for the do or die mentality and atmosphere as an onlooker.
TheMagnificent11
Roar Guru
It is possible to have too much of a good thing. The issue is determining how much is just right.
jimbo
Roar Guru
A new competition and format like this I think will prove very popular. It could be both rounds and knockout. The FFA could go for a knockout stage when the A-League teams enter the draw. Last 20 or last 16? The very early games to qualify for the latter stages may be round robin or two legged and regional or state based rounds and don't involve A-League clubs.
jimbo
Roar Guru
Its not a shortfall. They are rationalising the League and its costs. But of course as a Geordie you would love your football and the more games the better - right?
Geordie
Guest
If the FFA need to make up a shortfall of games with a cup competition then there are big problems with the A-League
Geordie
Guest
agreed the only chance the state league sides would have of progressing is in a one off (or two leg) knock out format
Cpaaa
Roar Pro
ive pondered about this many a times and as of now i firmly believe that Knock Out is the way to go. Its the only way every game means something. Knock Out means " Grand Final match " every single game. No second chance!! No excuses!! If Football fans wernt passionate enough, bring an FFA Cup and we just may see more highlights on common tv. the time has come and it will be worth it in every aspect. ps. Just saw on Fox sports that "the Body" Elle Macpherson will be part of our 30min WC presentation on Dec 2. Now how can anyone say no to that?
TheMagnificent11
Roar Guru
Is there an echo is this room...I mean forum...lol
oly
Guest
Yeah I know what you mean, but from what the FFA have been saying it seems they want to have a cup with a group stage and then knockout. If that is the case then having 32 teams, then down to 16, would mean at least 5 state league sides make the finals.
TheMagnificent11
Roar Guru
Well assuming there are 8 groups of 4, then 16 team will qualify for the knock-out stage. That means at least 5 non-A-League teams will make the knock-out stage. The knock-out games will probably one leg (no home and away legs) so these 5 teams will have earned the right to cause some upsets.
djsinnema
Roar Rookie
No offence Oly09 the idea of a group stage will most definitely will prevent the small state league teams from being competitive. None of those teams would be appriciative of being thumped week in week out by A-League teams. That is the sole reasoning behind having a knock out trophy
Robbie Di Fabio
Roar Guru
I'm with the majority here and would definitely prefer a straight knock-out style cup. Having a group phase, for me wouldn't feel like a traditional cup competition. The ability to have the under-dogs triumph against the higher level clubs in a do or die battle is what makes cup football so exclusive and unique in contrast to the regular league fixtures. Having a group stage wouldn't satisfy this sensation. As I wrote about recently, the FFA Cup should consist of all football clubs throughout Australia. The qualifying period can start through the usual winter months throughout the different State Federations with the high ranked teams being seeded in this process. The stronger state federations like Victoria and NSW for instance would have more entrants into the 1st round of the FFA Cup followed by Queensland, South Australia etc. The 1st round of the cup could consist of maybe 64 teams, or something similar. This would be a true representation of Australian football. It's done in the FA Cup and closer to home in the Emperor's Cup (Japan).
TheMagnificent11
Roar Guru
I like the idea. I believe the FFA is leaning towards the UCL format. My understanding is that the A-League will 20 rounds next year and will be supplemented with 3 or 6 group stage cups games (and all A-League team should make the knock-out stages so they'd get extra games there). I would prefer a straight knock out if we had 14 A-League teams because then you have enough home-and-away games. Unfortunately, that is not the case and thus we need to make up the games another way.
Australian Football
Roar Guru
Strictly knock out for me.. UCL group stages are great for the UCL where 300m Europeans live and loving it. But for us it is far too elaborate or even to consider contemplating. I would like to see the All Age Associations allowed to enter with the A-League teams coming in at the closing stages of the cup---playing away to the minnows State League Teams at their home grounds. What a wonderful full charged atmosphere that would create for the locals in their overflowing small packed stadiums ..
Eamonn Flanagan
Guest
Hate group stage format - boring Cup should be a knockout. Look at Champions League - same old same old get thru the tired and boring group stage. Celtic can beat AC Milan or Man United in a one off game - but never over a group stage. Same I suspect for any non-A-League teams in a group comp, and how many people would go to such games. If we are to have such a competition it must be knock-out only. That's the only "magic" of a cup competition - especially one with no history and no money. Keep it simple...
BrisbaneBhoy
Guest
I too say/hope/prey they go with a straight knockout competition. The thought of group stages etc is cringeworthy.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
I also say: keep it simple, with a format that is based on tradition - not the lure of the almighty dollar. Prior to 92/93, even the UCL (or European Cup as it was then known) was a knock-out competition based on the results of 2-leg home & away matches between the sides - there were no "Group Stages". I don't think we need the 2 legs for our FFA Cup. I would rather have lots of teams involved and, ideally, the Cup should be open to every registered football team in Australia and matches are decided by random draw, with the A-League clubs entering the competition at the "final 64 stage". And have just one knock-out game, since the fairytale of Cup competitions - like the English FA Cup - are the based on the dream that any team over 90 minutes is capable of beating the best team in the country.
Whites
Guest
No. Keep it a simple knockout comp.