Imagine if NRL had retained first ever clubs

It is to do with the growth of each city. Sydney grew as several small "cities" which have merged together; think Parramatta, Chatswood, North Sydney, Penrith, Campbelltown, Liverpool, Hurstville/St George, Sutherland Shire et cetera. Each time the city expanded, it grew as a new identity. This was probably due to geography and the Harbour / rivers. RL clubs had to change with the city, and new clubs were formed where population centres were, while old clubs in industrial or unsustainable areas died. Melbourne is a city-centric place - There is the CBD, then as you move away from it in any direction, generally all you will find is suburbia. All of the VFL clubs are inner city suburbs. There was no need for the game to move outwards with the population because Melbourne is so CBD centric.

Also Manly were sort of born out of the Bears in a similar way to how Cronulla was an offshoot of St George.

The article is stupid - fails to recognise the chages to Sydney's population centres and the ups and downs of various clubs. The NRL is the way it is for a reason. 1- Glebe changed from an inner city suburb to an industrial area between 1900 and 1920 - there were no people there to support a club after that. 2- Newtown faced a demographic shift in the inner West, and were competing with other much larger clubs - they had to relocate or fold, only Wests were given Campbelltown and Newtown the boot. 3- St George tried to get in in 1908 and were knocked back initially, only to get in in 1921. 4- You can argue that Newcastle were revived through the Knights in 1987, and 5- that Cumberland was sort of reborn as Parramatta in 1947. Both are new clubs that represent the old area. 6- To claim that Illawarra wouldn't have a side is stupid. The only reason it was knocked back for expansion in 1967 in favour of Penrith and Cronulla was that the CRL blocked any such move to establish a side there - remove this hurdle in the 80s and an Illawarra side was inevitable. Don't forget that the Newcastle and Illawarra comps are almost as old as the NSWRL comp. They are big old RL supporting cities - always were going to end up with a team. Cronulla were a poorer option, but were brought in because the NSWRL wanted to try and break up the strength of St George (which coincidentally took in the Shire and all of the South Coast). Another interesting thing, the St George Leagues were the guarentor on the loan that got Cronulla started - St George helped them get going early on. It was always going to end up something like it is now.

sheek This wasn't suppose to be a scholar work so I didn't intend to suggest anything it's just a what if article I concocted at midnight before I went to bed.It sounded interesting in theory so I put in to words of course reading over it's more negative than positive to be just the 8 or 9 original teams. As for WA if Union can have a presence there so can league it's vital for the NRL for a team to be there for growth sake. I'm all for a 2nd NZ team if the Warriors keep on going well on there end of NZ then a 2nd team is more than possible.

One lesson being, as with the Gold Coast, expansion doesn't always work the first time, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't expand.

KOG It was my error there's only one Cumberland since I wrote this at midnight (today) I didn't exactly proof-read since I was half asleep. Sheek Interesting how Cumberland became Parramata a few years later, I thought Cumberland would of represented the entire Cumberland country & plain which would of included the likes of Campbell-town,Liverpool,Penrithetc. It would of cover a larger than the processor Parramata Eels.

NF, Also I apologise for the poorly worded rebuttal. it wasn't meant to be so harsh.

KOTG, No, just one Cumberland (1908), which returned as Parramatta in 1947. Perhaps you're thinking of Annandale, which had a very short life (1910-20). Annandale was another Sydney inner-city club along with Glebe & Newtown. Just for the record, here are the clubs in the first 3 seasons of Sydney rugby league: 1908 - Norths, Easts, Wests, Souths, Balmain, Newtown, Glebe, Newcastle & Cumberland. Cumberland dropped out after one year, returning as Parramatta Eels in 1947. 1909 - Norths, Easts, Wests, Souths, Balmain, Newtown, Glebe, Newcastle. Newcastle Rebels dropped out after 2 seasons, returning in 1988 as Newcastle Knights. 1910 - Norths, Easts, Wests, Souths, Balmain, Newtown, Glebe, Annandale. These 8 clubs remained static 1910-19. In 1920, Annandale was replaced by Sydney University. In 1921 St.George Dragons was admitted. Glebe dropped out at the end of 1929 & University at the end of 1937. Canterbury-Bankstown was admitted 1935.

It is fantastic. If Parramatta wasn't in the way that's where Sydney could have something similar. Maybe in Granville, just outside Parra, most trains go through there, low price to buy up land, lots of area to expand, etc.

Many non-Melburnians probably don't appreciate the wonderful sporting precinct that exists around the MCG, fully serviced by a train line, and not too far away is Etihad (other side of the CBD), and you have an excellent formula for sports attendances (that tennis, soccer and both rugby codes also enjoy).

Blacktown is their training base, they'll play at Homebush. Many Melbourne teams have a similar model (training base different to home ground). You are right that that model may not work in Western Sydney, I don't have the local knowledge to argue the case. On the one hand, the addition of Canberra and the SW of NSW muddies the waters in terms of community engagement, on the other hand, that region will deliver 5k+ members and the 3 games played in Canberra each year will deliver 12k+ attendances every time. Add the ACT Govt support, big sponsors already in the bag, and that ain't too bad for a team just starting up.

The point I was making about membership, is that it is both an emotional & financial commitment. And that commitment is tested & reaffirmed every year when the membership renewal notice arrives in the mail. Also, getting from the outer suburbs of Melbourne via public transport to the central sporting precinct & returning home again, is so, so, so, so much better & easier than in Sydney. It helps.....

Do you want to have a constructive discussion or not?

Well, Parramatta is basically Cumberland (or a small part of it).

So GWS isn't hooked to Blacktown? Have you told the local Council and business community yet?

DS, Jake, the original Newcastle club withdrew from the "Sydney" league back in 08/09 so as to form its own competition up in Newcastle. The diehards up there still refer to the National Rugby League as "the other NRL"....

Ground consolidation has not worked for North Melb and the Bulldogs though. (both entered the VFL in late in 1925). Limited pop growth tradtionally in those areas, North Melb is a tiny suburb, Footscray and western suburbs did not boom until 10 years ago. Ess, Coll, Carl, Rich through on field success grew huge fan bases that stayed with the clubs thru the generations. Fitzroy got squeezed by Collingwood's ongoing success and close location. The VFL was broke in the 1980s, like the NSWRL it could have lost more than one club, saved by relocation South Melb to Sydney. I'm not sure how big Newtown or Glebe was but a relocation might have worked? The tribal aspects of Parramarra, etc are different to Melboune due to the geography. Melbourne adds outer rings of suburbs adjacent to each other, Sydney expanded thru satelittle towns which grew in corridors and linked to central Sydney like spokes. Re GWS, the problem for the AFL would be if it linked to say Parramatta it isolates its potential to one burb (albeit a big one). As a much smaller sport in WS the AFL needs to spread the net wider, the result is a lessening of the tribal factor to one area. GWS is a bit of mess as far as an geo identity especially when you throw in Canberra, but like Nth QLD in the NRL it hopes to represent a large area rather than a city/suburb to gain a critical mass that would only be equivalent to one NRL club in WS. On field success is the key to GWS.

Even if the Sydney clubs had that three generations of support it wouldn't have worked. Sydney is too broken up and impossible to move around. You'll find out when GWS start playing at Homebush and wonder why the people from Penrith, Campbelltown, Windsor, Castle Hill, Blacktown, Bansktown & Liverpool aren't there.