Call our cricketers dirty, but not our Wallabies

Er....apart from when Colin Croft barged into umpire Fred Goodall.........

Right on, Todd!

Ray Price, who played both codes, was one of the toughest ever, but never dirty. When Jake White was coach, he cleaned the Boks act up, and they won the World Cup. Since then the same old problems are coming back. As for cricket -- the Windies of the 70s and 80s were one of the greatest teams ever. But they were admired for their on and off field behavior. Viv Richards -- was as tough as they come. But a gentleman. Bad behavior and toughness do not go hand in hand.

Re Bakkies headbutt When I first saw Cowan pulling back Botha I thought good, an easy penalty. When I realised that the ref missed it, I wondered whether he would have missed Botha taking the cheating c...'s head off with left hook. (ps have a look at SA's record in games the said ref called, but that is an aside) In club rugby if I pull a guy back in fair chase I would expect to be dealt with at some stage. Same thing with the infamous charge on Mortlock's back in 2008. A foul in anybody's book, but... Mortlock spent that whole season falling on the wrong side of rucks, if your presence is invisible to the ref, it should be invisisble to the ref under all circumstances.

The fiercest matches IMO are between Samoa and Tonga. All they seem to care about is the hard hits, the scoreboard and rugby is secondary.

Martin Johnson said the same thing before last weekend's clash with Scotland and the same thing before the French clash.And about Wales...and before last year's clash with Ireland.I wouldn't worry too much about what Johnson says,he says what people want to hear before a big match.You should know it by now.

"Dirty players and strong players are not the same thing." I couldn't agree more.You wouldn't compare a Buck Shelford,say,with a Richard Loe-life would you? Once again I would refer fans to the first 3N match of 2010 at Eden Park(NZ v RSA) for an example that epitomises 'fierce' play between two sets of 'hard' men....what a game!!

Good call Sean, The Stormers and Highlanders on the weekend an example of that SA mentality. It was brutal from both sides but the Stormers were that much more forceful on the day. The collisions were jarring, hate to see the bruises the next day from that match! The big games are won upfront...

Very amusing Ben, I really can't see why the Aussies don't like our Richie.... He really is fabtastic and dirty neeeveeer not our Richie, but neither is Pocock as for Cooper just flick him away fellas, flick him away........

Good call Moaman

"(Which is why Bok/AB matches are the ultimate to any South African)." And yet Martin Johnson was quoted in Planet Rugby(I think) as saying it"doesn't get more fierce than Eng v Aus".....

Your point is pretty good Sean. The Wallabies need a Owen Finnegan, a fit Vickerman in form as aside from Sharpe and maybe a fit Horwill there is a lack of serious mongrel. McCalman shows some and maybe with Elsom and Sharpe there is enough venom but through in a Bakkies Botha without the bagage of penalties you would go a long way to completing that scrum and that physical intimadation?

What exactly is the point of this article? That Wallaby players aren't dirty? Well they aren't and nobody was making that claim as far as I'm aware. However, as some of the other comments above have suggested, you have unintentionally highlighted why Australian forwards are considered the pussies of the rugby world and the team's weak link, especially when they travel up north. The reason Australians loath South African players in general is that their style of play (particularly in the forwards) is the complete opposite to their own. Aussies view forward play as a means of securing the ball for their backline to do the damage, nothing more, nothing less. South Africans view the forward battle as a game within a game. A psychological battle to be won. A test of bloody-mindedness and an expression of domination. They know that if they can demolish an opposing forward pack, the game is more than half won. This is done through extreme physicality. It's always been the way of the Springboks and it always will be and unfortunately, when you have this mentality sometimes the line between fair and foul is crossed. I can assure you most South Africans don't condone foul play. The condemnation heaped on Bakkies when he stupidly head-butted Cowan last year was at it's most severe from his fellow countrymen. But what he brings to the table is worth the occasional brain explosion - unbridled MONGREL. Ultimately, Australians generally seem afronted and shocked by this style of play and they especially resent the impact this style has on preventing their fleet-footed backs to weave their magic. As a South African, I love our style. Sure it's frustrating at the lack of intelligence often displayed but you can't beat the thrill of watching two packs with a gladiator mentality going at it. (Which is why Bok/AB matches are the ultimate to any South African). What I know with absolute certainty, however, is that most Australian rugby supporters (despite their horror at those dirty saffas) would in a flash trade in the Matt Dunnings, Al Baxters, Dean Mumms along with all the other shrinking violet Wallaby forwards for just one Bakkies Botha or Bismark Du Plessis. Imagine what that Wallaby backline could do then.

I just don't think niggle is what the Australians are good at, so they don't do it. The Wallaby pack tried to get all angry and in yo face, sucka, against England in the 07 WC QF, and then again in the 2nd Test against England in the summer, and then they got smacked bottoms for their troubles. I don't think, of the current crop, that there are any players with the ability to physically intimidate other players. I reckon Super rugby has softened the Wallabies.

Okay I am wrong. I agree it's a not a dirty play, just an illegal professional foul. Also agree the Wallabies are the cleanest, but that's not a title I would want personally for my team. I would not be surprised if history repeats again, this World Cup, and the Wallas are out-mongrelled by a beastly England pack who play with controlled and disciplined aggression. (therein lies the trick)

Gee.I liked him! I remember him winning that lineout against the Lions against the throw. He wasn't overawed by that strong and physically dominant pack The problem these days is testosterone is not the dominant hormone. Oestrogen is and its even in the food. The fact that Quade Cooper rates a mention is evidence supporting my case. He's a Princess. How can you select the biggest, strongest blokes......and now its the backs as well as the forewards, .......and then ask them to be role models? Well you can ask! But Marko underlines the fact that physically attacking huge men requires balls aka testosterone and this chemical can cause brawn to overpower brain. The maoris and islanders have a warrior culture only a little behind the Boers who are bred to dominate. Then there are the pommy tough guys with no teeth and cauliflower ears and the French who attack soft balls in the eye sockets and elsewhere Apply the rules and the bad boys leak penalties. The slower they get the more penalties and they become too expensive and are dropped! Contrarily, the Goodies do best when they play more like Baddies!

Justin Harrison is the only Wallaby I ever really disliked.

S'funny, I think part of the Wallabies pack problems stems from a lack of mongrel. There's no hard men in the pack. Justin Harrison was probably the last, but certainly not the best at introducing a mongrel element into the Wallaby forwards. I can't believe the number of times I see Australian players, Super Rugby as well as in Tests, wave their arms at the Ref and expect to get a penalty for some transgression or other by their opposition (some are fouls, some aren't). Get in and do something about it! That's what forwards are for! Go in and get the ball! Fair revenge is always achievable - hit 'em harder and smarter! Christ! Even Kiwis and Saffas have agreed that the Wallabies are the goody two shoes of the game. The Wallabies should be ashamed! At Test level, there should be no Richard Loe's, but something pretty close to keep control is always handy ;-) As for Quade Cooper being dirty. F' crying out loud, he's a back! They're all pussies! Yes, and bring back rucking!

Not sure which game it was in, but in one of the Rebels games Nick Phipps deliberately stomped on the hand of one of the opposition players for absolutely no reason other than to be nasty and at the time I thought it was disgusting and hoped he got sighted. Really poor behaviour. Mind you, knowing his Dad, it doesn't surprise me at all. I dont think Sidey should have got a red either. It was not deliberate, and Ndungane didn't land on his head at all, it was his back and I honestly think Ndungane took a dive. Which would explain his miraculous recovery this week against the Rebels. I also think Justin Harrison was a nasty character, although can't think of anything really 'dirty' he did.