NRL expansion battle between Brisbane and rest

That's the trouble with the whole game.It revolves all around Sydney and that's why it hasn't expanded as it should of done.Until that mentality all changes RL will always remain a cinderalla sport.

"Sydney is by far the league capital of Australia. No. The world. More people watch it. More people play it. More people go to games than anywhere else." In absolute numbers, yes. Relative numbers, no. That's what makes Brisbane the global home of rugby league. Gather up 1,000 people from Brisbane and Sydney and you'll find there's a higher percentage of rugby league players/spectators in Brisbane. That's why Brisbane is the rugby league capital of the world. "Its not the NSWRL’s fault that the BRL allowed itself to get taken over." I think you're being disingenuous. If not then you don't know much about the era. The NSW Government allowed clubs to collect revenue from gambling. Sir Joh's Government in Queensland prohibited clubs from collecting money from gambling. This meant the Leagues clubs in NSW could collect revenue from sponsors, TV deals, gate-keepings AND gambling. The poor old BRL clubs only have the top three options available. The NSWRL milked this for all it was worth and used it to plunder the BRL. Remove the salary cap and see what happens. The Leagues clubs in Queensland are no longer prohibited from using pokie machines to make money. The NSW Government is phasing pokie machines out of Leagues clbus.What do you think would happen to Syndey's NRL clubs. Take away the salary cap and the Queensland Leagues clubs will be in a posistion to do the same thing to the Sydney clubs that the NSWRL did to the BRL. But we both know the NRL wouldn't allow that to happen because it always protects Sydney's best interests. Pity no one cared about the BRL's best interest back in the day. Are you starting to understand why Queenslanders hate NSWRL? It's the same reason Queenslanders chose Super League over the ARL. "The Bears bid failed last time because the bid was weak… and Queensland got the team they deserved it. Now the situations reversed. The Brisbane bid is weak, the Bears bid is strong and we deserve the team." The Bears bid is always going to be weak because there are too many teams in Sydney. As long as there are 8 or 9 clubs in Sydney then it's in the game's best interest to choose Brisbane over Gosford-Wyong. That's the thing you Bears supporters don't understand. If the game wants to go forward then it has to expand into Queensland before it puts another team in NSW. The only other option is to cut a Sydney team so the Central Coast can have their team. If that is done then I'll support the Bears bid.

Sydney is by far the league capital of Australia. No. The world. More people watch it. More people play it. More people go to games than anywhere else. Its not the NSWRL's fault that the BRL allowed itself to get taken over. Now you have a solid, sustainable league strategy. The Bears bid failed last time because the bid was weak... and Queensland got the team they deserved it. Now the situations reversed. The Brisbane bid is weak, the Bears bid is strong and we deserve the team. Arguing with someone who is clutching at straws is getting very boring!

"This may be a little bit obvious but doesn’t Brisbane 2 need people to support it to be worth giving it a license? Otherwise lets give a license to Kalgoorlie or somewhere like that…" Did the Brisbane Broncos go about signing up members before they were admitted into the NSWRL in 1988? Look at them now. More successful than any NSW club that has ever existed. I'm sick of hearing this crap about Brisbane 2 not having supporters. What on Earth do you call the thousands of people who went onto the bid's website to design a jersey for the team? Brisbane 2 hasn't gone out of its way to buy up members and sell merchandise. Yet. That doesn't mean there isn't support for it. "One of the country’s largest junior bases." It's tiny compared to Brisbane's junior base, yet there's only one team for Brisbane's juniors to aspire to playing for. That needs to be fixed. "A modern stadium close to parking and public transport with a reputation for solid crowds." Lang Park beats Bluetongue Stadium in all aspects of comparison. It needs a game every week. "State of the art training facilities" So does Brisbane. "Sponsors" So does Brisbane 2. "community engagement" So? This is all your bid has. "Tradition" Not that crap again. Rhetoric about tradition was used by ailing Sydney clubs during the 1990's because they couldn't justify their existence in the ARL. You want to talk about tradition? Think BRL. Look at what those vultures from Sydney did to that. They used revenue from gambling to kill the BRL. That was the biggest tragedy in the history of Australian rugby league. No one from the NSWRL has tried to right the wrong they created. The North Sydney Bears are trying to stuff Queensland over again by denying us our right to have our fair share of teams in the NRL. And so what about the Bears' history? Their history isn't great. "Potential for annual grudge match with more animosity than any other in the nrl against Manly." You a mean a regular season match that might help Manly get more than 18,000 to a game at Brookvale? Wow! Bring in the Bears then! "Secures a void in Australia’s league capital under threat from other codes." Gosford and Wyong are not the league capital of Australia. Neither is Sydney. Brisbane is under a greater threat at the moment. Only 1 NRL team in Brisbane fighting against 1 RU team, 1 AFL team and 1 soccer team. If there's a region that needs another NRL team to fight off other codes then it is Brisbane. "no risk from a business perspective." I wouldn't be too sure about that. How viable with the Bears be when all of the nostalgia is gone? "You say having 7000 members is meaningless. I bet the NRL will place alot more confidence in that than people saying “Yes we have a team already but some people don’t like them…” which is what I’m hearing alot of up north." Did the Bears' community engagement win them a spot in the NRL when the last expansion plans were unveiled?

This may be a little bit obvious but doesn't Brisbane 2 need people to support it to be worth giving it a license? Otherwise lets give a license to Kalgoorlie or somewhere like that... I guess people are lining up to buy Bears memberships because, as you said, we don't have much else to offer, except for. -One of the country's largest junior bases. -A modern stadium close to parking and public transport with a reputation for solid crowds. -State of the art training facilities -Sponsors -community engagement -Tradition -Potential for annual grudge match with more animosity than any other in the nrl against Manly. -Secures a void in Australia's league capital under threat from other codes. -closes the book on the super league war. -no risk from a business perspective. Please help me out other bears supporters if i forgot anything. It sounds like you're clutching at straws now mate. You say having 7000 members is meaningless. I bet the NRL will place alot more confidence in that than people saying "Yes we have a team already but some people don't like them..." which is what I'm hearing alot of up north.

This may be a little bit obvious but doesn't Brisbane 2 need people to support it to be worth giving it a license? Otherwise lets give a license to Kalgoorlie or somewhere like that... I guess people are lining up to buy Bears memberships because, as you said, we don't have much else to offer, except for. -One of the country's largest junior bases. -A modern stadium close to parking and public transport with a reputation for solid crowds. -State of the art training facilities -Sponsors -community engagement -Tradition -Potential for annual grudge match with more animosity than any other in the nrl against Manly. -Secures a void in Australia's league capital under threat from other codes. -closes the book on the super league war. -no risk from a business perspective. Please help me out other bears supporters if i forgot anything. It sounds like you're clutching at straws now mate. You say having 7000 members is meaningless. I bet the NRL will place alot more confidence in that than people saying "Yes we have a team already but some people don't like them..."

You think Brisbane 2 needs 2,000 people to support it right now because... (your answer here)? Most bids don't start signing up members until they're given a licence. The CC Bears are pretty much the only bid I've ever heard of that has done it. The only reason the Bears have spent so much time on signing members is because they're desperate and have nothing else to offer. So stop going on about how many members you have, it's meaningless. The NRL won't care about the 7,000 members you have when they make a decision.

What I would be asking is "Where are 2000 people who have joined the Brisbane 2 bid?" I think 2000 people (out of around 7000) to buy memberships for a team that doesnt even play yet is pretty fantastic. I bet you wish Brisbane 2 had that kind of support, instead of a few malcontents saying "If the bid meets my needs i may support it."

SBF Not what I said. Tell me has GWS played in Western Sydney before this year,if so enlighten the gathered throng ,as to when. The Reds have a playing precedent ,they were part of the ARL and then SL comp from 1995,before getting the chop as part of the peace deal. So on one hand we have a team that played in Perth before ,and on the other we have a completely new team that was only put together in the last 18 months or so.Club's history compared to club's non history. The Searle comment came out before the Suns entry,you I trust are not calling him a bearer of falsehoods.He would soon be found out.The story was also in Big League. Spin!!!! The Age and Caroline Wilson and the Offsiders are over themselves with so called 8 players from ru and rl ,wanting to play AFL.Nothing to do whatsoever with managers either upping the ante,or leaving all options open as any good manager would.Absolutely nothin to do with gold at the end of the rainbow.Come in spinner.

What !!, are you saying there is no history of Australian football in Sydney ?, because there is a far longer history of Australian football in Sydney than RL in Perth. Have you ever considered that the titans execs are creating spin to combat the GC suns, ever heard of Micheal Seale !!. I never said you criticised the auskick program, i just think you dont understand it.

At least they have a monorail plan,and not something lobbed in from a great height.They have been working on it for years.They have also a history of playing in that city,GWS does not in its new environs.Maybe they could design a monorail or bicycle lanes. I have already stated that surveys have a margin for error.Never suggested they would be 100% correct.Even a small percentage of those figure,is still a good base from which to work. Based on your description,we can therefore treat the surveys done for G17 and GWS,with a grain of salt.Or is it good enough for two but not good for one. Yep shooting the messenger ,when someone doesn't like results of surveys or stats,is the way to go.The response was just as I predicted ,you could put your house on it. At no stage did I criticise the auskick program.My point was simply,and it is very hard to get the message over,these figures were included in official playing numbers,whereas the 50,000 contacts in WA for rl are not.The sons of the Titans execs had their sons included,when they don't play the code.

Excellent plan, every city needs a monorail !!. Every one knows that 53% of all statistics are incorrect !. I still dont understand what your concern with auskick is, it's a great program and i believe about 32,000 kids are playing auskick on satursay mornings in WA this year, it is club based in WA and would be the equivalent of small sided soccer, or mod league, it has nothing to do with turning up to school with a sherrin-burley-faulkner for a one off afternoon participation session.

SBF And you don't live in southern NSW ,yet are quite happy to proclaim expertise.I live in NSW and spend time in the Southern areas:Griffith in particular.I have done so for decades. I am not an alcoholic, but based on statistics I am provided with numbers in this country. You have no access to Lek and the tv contract discussions,yet quite happy to come up with figures . You are not involved in junior rugby league in all of WA.You are not part of the WA bid team.You do not provide official figures for the NRL. You can argue the figures til hell freezes over, just as I can argue official figures provided by your code in NSW. Auskick numbers were brought up,simply to show ,they were included in official numbers.Ask the John Cartwrights and Michale Searles of this world.Thereby emphasising the 50,000 contacts by rugby league in the school system, are not included in registered numbers. What happens within your circle and contacts, does not represent the viewpoint of everyone within WA,unless you have the capacity to speak to 2 million Sandgropers FHS.I can use that very same argument within my daily contacts as to GWS. The people involved in the bid are not NSW residents but locals,and the fans that have attended the games in the past are overwhelmingly locals.The 19 players who came over from WA were locals. The WARL chairman is David Hobbs the WA chief exec of the professionals Real Estate group,and having served seven years as the Docker's inaugural mktg mgr,Hobbs is no stranger to both business success and the area.If you or your contacts have better credentials and contacts, than this guy,then by all means spin away to your heart's content. In addition you can add the other local WARL execs John Sackson and Bruce Havilah. Just to really stir the possum's nest here is a result of a commissioned survey conducted by Synovate ,as part of the bid team's argument for entry; The survey report stated:- 1) A new side would pump $22m a year into the WA economy. 2) 38% of the public support the NRL expansion into Perth. 3) 6% of the public state they are likely to become members. 4)31% of the 18-34 yr olds,would attend a home game. 5)15% of those surveyed follow the NRL. 6) 8% were strong and passionate rl supporters. 7) The report says rugby league trails rugby union by just 3% in terms of interest,support and appeal in the metro area. Now anyone knows there is a margin for error in any survey, but allowing for that the figures are still impressive.Just like surveys conducted for G17 and GWS. The key points of the Red's bid provided to the NRL:- A new appointed WARL with clear direction in expanding the code at junior level. The UNANIMOUS support of all NRL CEOS. The NRL will not be a truly national game until WA is included. . Broadcasting from WA back to the east coast will be a key plank in the NRL's bid to secure $1b. There is that figure again which you say no one mentions. The WA Reds would spend $8m in wages,including $4.2m in player salaries,$3.8m in support staff and $380,000 in payroll tax. Expansion of the local league clubs would follow with more than 1,000 new members,boosting interest and participation. Further utilisation of NIB stadium as the largest tenant and the WA Go'vt's $88m stage 1 redevelopment of the venue A new major sponsor was ready to inject between $1.5m and $2m. The state Govt would pledge its committment once the expansion had been confirmed by the NRL/ARL Commission. Now you can wriggle, squirm,bring on daily contacts,but that is just your side of the equation.I understand your concern,having an "intruder ' back to grab a small share of the sporting cake. If it happens it will be successful, if there is no expansion in 2013 (only because of a less than expected Tv deal), then it will still happen,but within a short time frame.

"because historically they never had any problems supporting them for 100years previously." The Bears weren't even in first-grade for 100 years. First season was 1908 and thrown out after the 1999 season, no? Do the math. And their support wasn't great! Have 100,000 people marched the streets in protest for the Bears to get back into the competition? Thought not. "You see, you like to make assumptions about the Central Coast Bears because it makes you feel better if they’re not doing all this great work. The truth is, they are doing this great work. it’s happening. How do I know? im a volunteer who gives up my weekend, every weekend for the last 14 months. Ive personally handed out 500 membership forms in the last 4 months alone. Thats just from me. There’s about 20 people who volunteer. Then there’s about another 100 who carry the Bears name via media streams and online. Thats before we get to the other 100 who are out in the public. Then we can start talking about fans and supporters. Like it or not, the Central Coast Bears have the support from North Sydney and the Central Coast." Yet you only have 2,000 to 3,000 members from the northern Sydney area? Sounds like there isn't much intertest in the bid at all. The Bears have been at this for years, yet they can only get 2,000 to 3,000 people its "heartland" area to support their bid. If any of the Queensland bids had been out and about doing this for years on end then they'd probably have two or three times as many members, possibly more. Accept it, only a few diehard fans want the Bears are interested. Everyone else has moved on. "So just swallow your ego and accept it mate." ROTFLMAO! All I ever hear from your lot is "we've done this, we've done that, no one else has this, we're the next team, blah". The minute anyone questions any of your claims you lot get angry, defensive and obnoxious. You lot just want the world to buy into all of your propaganda without questioning its validity. Last night there were some people from your side getting all crazy because I pointed out that Craig Davison told the media what his bid has for their first season. Like usual, the response consisted of them saying that it's all rubbish and that anyone who belives it is stupid, don't believe everything you read, blah. These are the same people who provide no evidence about THEIR bid yet expect everyone accept it without question. Don't expect to win supporters with such hypocrisy.

Yes they are... because historically they never had any problems supporting them for 100years previously. It all comes down to how much work the Bears put into the region. how much they give back to the community. how many initiatives they have for juniors, kids and schools. How many events they organize for locals and residents. And you know what mate? Everything is already being done. A lot of hardwork from many different people and groups to make this work. You see, you like to make assumptions about the Central Coast Bears because it makes you feel better if they're not doing all this great work. The truth is, they are doing this great work. it's happening. How do I know? im a volunteer who gives up my weekend, every weekend for the last 14 months. Ive personally handed out 500 membership forms in the last 4 months alone. Thats just from me. There's about 20 people who volunteer. Then there's about another 100 who carry the Bears name via media streams and online. Thats before we get to the other 100 who are out in the public. Then we can start talking about fans and supporters. Like it or not, the Central Coast Bears have the support from North Sydney and the Central Coast. So just swallow your ego and accept it mate.

How can you make that assurance?

So how come only 2,000 or so people from the area have joined the bid? Sounds like it's just the few diehard fans who are interested.

I live here, you dont, i am involved with junior sport, you are not, i speak to people daily from all backgrounds in WA, you dont. You are certainly passionate about a WA team ..... commendable no doubt, but as a lot of people from WA, who understand the grass roots, have posted, a RL team is not really viable. Your junior number are IMO very rubbery, and i dont know why you bring auskick numbers into this, it has no relevance, auskick in WA is club based.

Based on what? The people of Northern Sydney have no problem identifying with the central coast. This area serves as the feeder area for Central Coast Mariners and more people support them than Sydney FC. This has caused no friction whatsoever. You need to stop coming to false conclusions up there and start listening to the people who actually live here and see whats going down. People from North Sydney know there is no chance of getting another sydney team for obvious reasons and the bears brand is still as strong as ever in this region.

Absolutely!