Springbok prelim World Cup squad picked

1) Guthrow (Balance of power and high work rate) 2) Bismark (Simply the best) 3) Werner (Best tighthead/ consistent/ best THead tackle stats/ reliable) 4) Bakkies (clean out the rucks/ intimidation) 5) Victor (Line out master) 6) Juan (Solid/ great line out option/ does it all) 7) Brussow (pitbull) 8) Duane (Consistent/ work rate/ tackles well/ very quick)/ stormers struggled in semis without him 9) Fourie (master tactician) 10) Morne (Boring but reliable/ high tackle rate/ suits our defensive mentality/ we like to smash it up) 11) Habanna (Still the best wide defensive option/ works very hard)/ must reduce errors 12) Butch James (Organises the defence/ tough as nails/ can change the game from defence to attack in a heart beat)/ Changed the Lions game completely. 13) Fourie (High work rate/ will benefit from playing outside Butch/ runs good lines) 14) JP (Best Wing in South Africa/ tackles well and still has good pace for a big man) 15) Lambie (Can change the game/ reads the game well from the back/ solid in defence) 16) (HK/THP) John Smit (Versatility) 17) (LHP) Beast Mtawarira 18) (SR/BSF) Danie Roussouw (Power/ super sub/ versatile/ can bash it up) 19) (BSF/8) Willem Alberts (Power/ super sub/ versatile/ can bash it up) 20) (9/11/14) F Hougard (mongrel/ speed/ versatile) 21) (12/13/11/14) J de Villiers (intelligent play)/ Needs to get his confidence back) 22) (15/11/14/12/13/10) F Steyn (Power/ versatile/ opposition will not want to make) many mistakes when he comes on due to his long rate kicks) 23) (HK) A Strauss (Power/ work rate/ ball retention) 24) (THP) BJ Botha (Powerful scrums/ can easily replace Werner) 25) (L) A Bekker (Probably already better than Victor/ good rotation) 26) (OSF/BSF/8) S Burger (can play anywhere along the back equally well/ highest work rate/ needs to improve ball retention ability) 27) (9) Sarel Pretorius (Great attacking player/ Flair/ will give Fourie a chance to rest against the weaker Nations eg Namibia) 28) (12/13) J de Jongh (runs good lines/ quick turn of pace/ for the future) 29) (11/14/15) Riaan Viljoen (versatile/ great boot/ good defense) 30) (11/14/15) G Aplon (Steps well/ versatile/ not who you want as last line of defence) Some players that I wish I had space for Francois Louw (Great Line out option/ deserves to be at the world cup) Ashley Johnson (Great attacking ability/ needs to improve defence) Doppies le Grange (Probably better than Jean at the moment) Wynand Olivier (Hard working/ shows real mongrel) Ruan Pienaar (great potential/ was not a revelation in Ireland/ can’t handle pressure) Bjorn Basson (Pace/ good for chip and chase game/ work on defence and positional play) Lwazi Mvovo (Pace/ power/ great potential/ goes on walk about) Gerhaard van der Heerver (Good running/ pace/ defense/ offload/ deserves call up)

Great Points there Tubby bang on with PdV and reputations, my worst fear is that the boks performance is going to be an reinactment of 2007 RWC with not much spice added. True on Habana and Spies, dont care how hard Habana tries he is not as competitive. I think Lambie will warm the bench as he covers other positions, M Steyn will play 10. Brussow has come back from a severe knee injury and played well agaist the Crusaders in Bloem, but since has tweaked his hamstring i think but should be back for Tri nations. Concerns I have wiht Juan Smith is not playing under the new rules and being out of the game for so long with torn archillies. J de Villiers, he should start at 12 and not wing, as there are better wings around, Petersen is in incredible form. One thing i have picked up in these forums and the news is that Mujati is scrumming well in Europe, would include him in my front row as the boks front row doest look as intimidating as it used to. After the RWC de Villers is a gonner either way, If hiring coatches of colour is required that look no futher than Alister Coezee, the Stormers Coach who is head and shoulders better and doing a great job in cape town.

if PdV continues to select squads on reputations earnt 3 years ago as he has so far, the boks have very little chance. spies simply should not be in the squad. habana is border line as well, not been allthat impressive this year. fly half is another concern, lambie was way out of his depth last year int he northern tours. sure he's young and can grow into it, but grant has been well ahead of him, whilst matching steyne in kicks from hand and for goal, and being far more effective in both attack and defense. butch james has not done much more than fill in with the lions, he must have been pretty impressive in the north to get a recall. franscois steyne's biggest problem is his versatility,no-one knows just what position he plays so he cannot get a mortgage on any one spot. surely he's a better bet at 15 than kirchner. I'd rank kirchner easily the worst of all 5 super teams fullbacks. deniller or viljoen would be better, let alone aplon. what is the lastest on juan smith and brussuow? neither have had much time on the field this year, fortunatley they still have currie cup to et back into shape. it's a great problem to have in the centres though, how to pick 2 standouts from the list available. JdV may not be a genuine wing but I'd still be tempted to pick him there. but then you'd have to leave out basson or pietersen. same problem in the locks, some will play flanker just to get them in, but then you've got some standouts there too. pity we can't select the coach as easily as the players

People always seem to forget that super rugby is not test rugby not even close, hence all the nonsense about Sarel being the best no.9. Test rugby is all about intensity and execution you are not going to get all that space that he gets when in comes to super rugby and without it his game for me is limited. The team should be: 15. Steyn 14 JP 13. JF 12. JDV 11. Habana 10. Butch 9. FDP 8. Spies 7. Smith (if fit else Burger) 6. Burger (if playing 7 then Brussow) 5. Matfield 4. Bakkies 3. Mujati (although I hear they are having issues processing his passport so BJ) 2. Bizzy 1. Gunthro ( if fit else the beast) 16. Smit 17. Beast if Gunthro is fit, else Conie 18.BJ if Mujati comes through else the good doctor 19. Danie 20. Brussow if Smith is fit, else Alberts 21. Houggard 22. Lambie

Im with you on all that. The incoming tours and tri-Nations will be our last chance to see if something works or not and hence the experimentation in my lineup. I agree about Spies - he is closed down too often to get going and is often stripped of the ball because he runs too upright. My number 8 would be Vermuelen because he is more 80min than Alberts and offers a genuine lineout option at the back. Like Alberts he carries very well but offers more finesse than the power of Alberts and has excellent defense which is something we cant say about Spies. Alberts for mine makes a superb power sub. Unfrotunately it looks doubtful Duane will make the tri-nations and for that matter his RWC is pretty much out of the window. So realistically that leaves us with Alberts, Spies, Kanko, Danie and Johnson vying for the back of the scrum spot. Johnson would have to be on the outer and Danie is more utility/bench. So its Alberts, Spies and Kanko with the final decision I think being determined by Juan Smith. If he makes it back then it will concentrate the remaining loosie spots. Alberts I think will make it as he offers more utility. So straight shoot out between Kanko and Spies. Neither I think have delivered the goods this year, Kankos injury hasnt helped him and I think he will simply lose out for not getting enough game time/exposure and the fact Spies MIGHT suddenly deliver on his potential

@ Rusty and G R-S thats a pretty good team too Rusy and as Gary RS mentions it shows the depth in the squad at the moment - now it just depends on the tactics. I agree too you have to for Lambie as he is the future. The problem for him is that his last game for the Sharks was at full back and he played really really well but missed a few goal kicks. This will make the selectors pick M Steyn at 10 as he is a more reliable goal kicker and use Lambie on the bench to cover 10,12 and 15 if need be. You could also argue having Lambie at 15 instead of Aplon but I think Aplon has the upper hand on pace or stepping. Basson is a good option considering M Steyn will probably be the 10 and he does kick a lot of up and unders - Basson is excellent chasing the high ball. To be honest I havent been watching Frans Steyn in the french league so I dont know what his form is like at 12 but leaving Jean De Villers out will be a tough call, one could also argue that Juan de Jongh should have a go as he has had an excellent super 15. Interesting about Ruan Pienaar, I havent seen him either but I think he will be dropped when the squad slims down. If Zane Kirshner gets picked at 15, I might have a hernia, it amazes me he is a capped springbok, no speed and no step. With teams clearing defensive kicks from their goal lines, you need 15's who can attack the line very well. E,g Christien Cullen style. Spies for me doesnt derserve to be picked at 8 due to his utter lack of form th whole season, in the last game he had a couple of runs but I think Alberts and Kankoski have a better shout. Coenie is also a great shout, however I think he needs to watch his discipline around the park as he leaks plenty of penalties, but his mobility is awesome. I think P de Villiers should experiment a bit in the Tri Nations because to be honest no one cares about the Tri nations in a RWC year and most squads will be resting players. I think Burger, Matfield, Bekker and Bismark should be rested during the Trinations.

It is a great squad baring the obvious as mentioned above. It will be the tactics and coach, unfortunately, that will let down this team, arguably the strongest of all the nations. Lambie over Steyn at 5-8 will be a key. Lambie is better suited to unleashing some very elusive outside backs or picking the moments when the gain line needs to be broken first through JdV and Fourie.

I havent had the pleasure to see him play in the NH but from what I have heard he has been going well. Stand to be corrected of course. As for Danie - seriously underrated and under the radar player who has delivered all that is asked of him and more. Has often been our premier inform lock and found himself on the pine without a quibble. The Bulls and Boks are going to seriously miss him next year.

I hear what you say Rusty but IMO Pienaar has lost a little bit in recent times. I don't think he is the man he once was. How lucky is SA rugby to have a player like Rossouw to come off the bench when one of your back row get tired he would probably start in any other franchise team.

No argument there... Sarel may play a bit loose but he brings an extra edge with that unpredictability and we could do with a little of that. I suppose the other thing we are overlooking is if Ruan Pienaar is in the squad as a 9. In which case he brings alot of the elusive running that Sarel brings with the more educated boot and test experience. That would probably mean the pecking orders is du Preez, Hougaard, Pienaar, Januarie with the 2nd and 3rd bringing utility value

That's the thing Tommy Tucker and Rusty yuo both have picked great sides emphasizing what I say regarding the depth of SA rugby. Sarel Pretorius should be in the squad instead of January, this selection of January is a travesty of justice.

Would then rotate the starting lineup and bench to include Juan, Alberts, Bakkies, Flip, Elton, Mvovo, JdV, Strauss

Pretty decent lineup there TT.. I would make a few changes, some controversial for the first Tri-Nations but it is about balance and then go from there for the WC 15. Aplon - its his best position 14. JP - running into his best form 13. Fourie - nuff said 12. F Steyn - this is where he has been playing for almost 2 seasons in France. Lets see how he goes 11. Basson - speed to burn and x-factor 10. Lambie - The future. 9. Du Preez - he has been off his game quite a bit but forget the kicking and watch the Bulls/Sharks game for the short flat passing that he delivers. Magical 8. Spies - I would prefer Vermuelen but I surprise myself here and say he looked pretty good last week 7. Burger - workrate has been unbelievable and is hitting his straps at the right time 6. Brussouw - the guy is class but will need a few matches to wind up to speed 5. Matfield - the old dog still knows a few tricks 4. Bekker - Matfield v 2.0 3. Werner Kruger - best SA Super rugby tighthead 2. Bismarck - world class 1. Coenie Oosthuizen - been very very impressed but needs to get that massive frame a little lower in the scrums Bench: 16. Beast - LH cover 17. J Smit - TH/Hooker cover 18. F Louw - will need to replace Brussouw who will be short of match fitness. 19. D Rossouw - covers Lock/Blind/8 20. M Steyn - covers 10 21. Hougaard - covers 9/wing 22. de jongh - covers centre

What a hoot with John Smit being selected, as a saffa Im ashamed as he is the 3rd best hooker in the country and the 6-8th best prop. He has won a RWC, put your feet up and retire peacefully. While the Bulls and Sharks were knocking lumps out of each other, he was warming the bench - says volumes. Dont get me started on Ricky Januarie, i dont have enough time/space. Unbelievable that Sarel Pretorius doesnt get a squad call up, top try scorer in Super 15, total handful - what more do you have to do? Glad to see the Bulls go out, with thier relentless bloody kicking, box kicks and up and unders, its no wonder the Sharks beat them - Morne Steyn kicked all their possession away!! Starting line up for the Boks in my opinion 15. frans steyn 14. JP Petersen 11. Gio Aplon 13. Jaque Fourie 12. Jean d Villers 10 M Steyn (if he can stop kicking possession away) 9 Du Preez (should be Sarel Pretorius) 8 Willem Alberts Openside: Heinrich Brussow (if fit) otherwise S.Burger Blindside: Juan Smith or S.Burger (if brussow is fit then Burger) 5. V. Matfield 4. Adries Bekker 3. BJ Botha 2. Bismarck 1. The Beast

He'll probably play half of most games.In Sa we're feeling pretty optimtic.The depth is actually a little silly!

Agree with GRS. Especially after the incredible pace of the Bulls Stormers match where Smit was simply an observer. Smit somehow has managed to instill some level of discipline into the boks which, given the Bulls Stormers match, is slowly filtering through. Without Smit, the boks are a chance. With him, this is bad for the boks, but good for NZ (possible semi finals).

Try as I might I just can't see how John Smit can be chosen in the WC squad as the captain. His form is not good he has been usurped by Du Plessis and Chilli boy as a hooker and there are probably 6 props in front of him that play better than he does. I grant he is a great captain and inspirational leader but there comes a time where you just have to move on. The same can be said for Matfield but not as harshly. The SA's are brimming with talent and have huge numbers to choose from. Another example is the selection of Ricky January at HB instead of the in form other HBs playing super rugby. All three of these players are just over the hill. I am not criticizing these players as to their wonderful careers but only in the light of the level of competition that they are in. This is the pinnacle level of rugby and these players while they might have another year or so at Super level they have slipped down at the test level. Even at Super level they are now struggling. PDV must have some clout in top circle, these selections do seem to be very political rather than picked on form.

Just as well SA rugby doesn't have an administration like NZRU running the show for them. If they did, the Boks would be near unstoppable with the talent they could nurture and choose from. Just sheer numbers would blow most nations out of the water. The rest of the world can be very grateful that SA have "real" talents like PDivy running the show over there!

Some decent players in that mix