Cold War Rugby: USA versus Russia

"Brazil are an interesting proposition. Two years ago there really wasn’t an organised Union as such. More a loose committee, but with the Olympic inclusion that has all changed with the game benefitting greatly from more promotion and exposure. It’s growing rapidly not only in participation (has more than doubled in 2 years) but in standard as they pushed both Ururguay and Chile in this year CONSUR A Championship." Not sure where your information about no organised union in Brazil before two years ago comes from. Brazil played their first test in the 1950´s, there has been a Brazillian National Rugby Championship since 1964, and the Brazil Rugby Union (ABR) was founded un 1972 .. which was the same time as other national unions here started to get organised. As with Brazillian Football Clubs, rugby clubs play in regional, state based competitions for the right to then play the Super 8, as the national championship in now called. The real strides in Brazillian Rugby were made in the 2000´s. In 2005 the South American B championship (Peru, Venezuela, Ecuador) was held in Sao Paolo ... and Paraguay won the championship beating Brazil by 50 points. In response the ARB asked the government for funding, and managed to get it, contracting Pierre .... cant remember his name, but I met him a few times when Playing for Paraguay and Paraguayan clubs. He was a Frenchaman who was a club player in france and whose father was a French Test Player. Under his coaching, they managed to win the South American B championship (minus Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina en these years) in 2006 and 2007. In 2008 they managed to beat Paraguay for the first time in 15 years. Both Brazil and Paraguay were promoted to the Sudamericano A championship for 2009. For 2009 they hired the brother of ex French Player Emile Ntamack as their new coach. Like Paraguay they lost to Uruguay and Chile, but beat Paraguay for 4th place in South America. They repeated the same in the 2010 and 2011 Sudamercianos. They tend to compete with Chile and Uruguay in the first half of games but then run out of steam a little. The biggest strides in Brazillian rugby have been in 7´s. They are now the second best team in South America, better than Uruguay or Chile, and they shocked everybody by beating Argentina in this years Sudamericano 7 ... the was the first time that Argentina had been beaten in by a fellow South American country about 20 years. Their women´s team has been the strongest in South America for several years, and they went to the last Seven´s World Cup. The Brazillian government has seen huge potential in rugby, and with a guaranteed spot in the 2016 Olympics they have been pouring money into rugby. Apart from Argentina, the Brazillian national team players are the only other South American players that are paid money to represent their country. Brazillians in the national squad are paid a stipend of about US $1000 a month... it mightnt seem much but it is about 2 and a half times the average wage, and it means they can train full time, which Chilean, Uruguayan and Paraguayan players playing in their countries can not do. Before the 2009, 2010 and 2011 Sudamericano Brazil also spent 1 month training in Buenos Aires against Buenos Aires club teams, which is unheard of for South American Unions except for Argentina. A Scottish Amateur´s team recently toured Brazil (all expenses paid by the ARB) and a Brazillian team was present in several of the pre-season 7´s tournaments in England. There was a profile of Brazil on the IRBs World Rugby Program which you can probably find on you tube. Brazil are making big strides, they have a lot of money, and a lot of gifted athletes. Their real challenge, like that of the US, and unlike other South American Countries is that people dont tend to take up the game until they are 18 or older. The other challenge is that apart from 1 or 2 Brazillians playing in England and France, all Brazillians play at home. Brazillians speak Portuguese, not Spanish, for this or other reasons, Brazillians havn´t tried to play in Argentinian club rugby which would probably be the best way for them to improve their skill levels. They are definately a team to watch though ... By the way ... Chile also managed to beat Uruguay for the first time in a long time this year, in the Sudamericano, to gain second place in the CONSUR Championship.

It wasnt a full New zealand universities side. If you look on the New Zealand Universities website it says they are a development or under 20 side or something like that.

Either way they are not a dud team

that's not the point. If the NZ university side was as weak as some suggest then a decent team should be able to flog them If the Americans had either lost to them or struggled to beat them then the US would have been woeful indeed. But they .flogged the visitors; promising signs is all I'm saying!

One of the originally selected players was unavailable due to being in the Canterbury ITM Cup squad, so presumably that has precedence and none of the players are current NPC level.

I still am not convinced by the NZ universities side. i think most of the best 18-21 rugby talent in NZ is in super 15 academy squads and NPC academy squads not at university, but still if some had played nPC and lsoe like that it is encouraging. I really think in 20 years the USA will be a team like Italy is today, but in 40 years will rival the All blacks style as now the no1 team in the world. I think nZ will still be strong just look at how competitive Fiji, Samoa, Tonga is despite often loosing the top corp to Aus,NZ, and England now. but there sis till so much, Tuilagi the older one in samoa team im sure would go very close to being a wallaby he surely would be competitive with Ioane and JOC, AND ROD DAVIES FOR A SPOT he is massive, and his younger bother is in england world cup squad, so may make final squad.

The New Zealand Universities team in training for their tour of USA played Australian Universities two months ago at Sydney University Oval. They won by over 40 points. Most of the NZU players in the side had played NPC and a couple had played Super Rugby. So for an American University team to beat them by 50 points is something, especially as we all know that any team wearing the black of NZ will fight to the end for victory.

Not to go down this path once again but the USA Rugby League (a splinter from the AMNRL) is not professional regardless of what they may wish to call it. How do I know this, because I have had some contact with guys who play League in the summer between Rugby seasons and they are not paid in any way, shape or form. Reports of a new 'franchise' in Atlanta for the AMNRL called the Atlanta Legion is complete bunkum. As is the use of the facilities they had touted using and any funding. I know this as the head coach and one of the senior club officials from the Atlanta Renegades (the team in which they were trying to use to establish it and use of their facilities) has come out and pretty much put an end to the specualtion. He has said in no uncertain terms that they do ont and will not support the move or allow access to facilities due to previous bad blood. To quote him the supposed organsier of the Legion is "talking out of his bum (edited of course)". What is true is that at the Colegiate level Rugby is re-organising itself toward self determination and will see rapid development in the coming seasons as programs align with traditional rivalries. An exciting development is the move toward traditional American Football conferences establishing their own sports networks to broadcast their football games. A present outside of the season they lack content and Rugby in those conference alignments will be looking to capitalise on that.

Nigel Melville had alluded to a movement toward establishing a domestic pro setup. That is indeed interesting as I haven't actually heard anything about that. I do know there are rumbling of a West Coast league establishing that could do it. I'll try to find out. Tim may know something I don't.

20 years the usa will be very stron strong if a country like Georgia can progress in the time it has had to develop it is scary to think what the USA will achieve in Rugby league and rugby union in 40 years in time. They'll be a powerhouse, like the ALL blacks are today. they will win the rugby WOlrd cup by the year 2050 i think. maybe earlier. A new pro USA RUGBY EAGUE COMP HAS GOT GOING, and the colleges are playing rugby and what Rugby union and Rugby league have over gridiron is it is an international sport. Russia will be a powerhouse to by 2050 i imagine. So well maybe Brazil,a and even mexico, and diefinatly japan.

WCR, Tim Horan said on triple Ms the ruck that the US would soon become a big player in poaching talent for their pro comp. I understood that the US was semi-pro. Is there movement towards a fully pro comp?

I'm in regular contact with several key figures in the USA Rugby landscape meaning I have their personal email addresses which I am not able to divulge for obvious reasons.

@ Uncle Bob - many of the the Yanks still called the game rugby into the early 20th century, but even by late 1870s they had begun to digress from the RFU laws they began with. In Canada until deep into the 20th century what they called "rugby" was what we would call Canadian football - they too began with the RFU laws, and while over time (as with the USA) they changed rules to evolve a new code, it kept the original name i.e. rugby - by the 1930s in Canada they were using "English rugger" to describe/differentiate local clubs playing to the RFU/IRB laws. There's also more than a few instances of "Australian rugby" being used in Nth American texts thru the 20th century in reference to what we call Aust rules football.

Note to the uninitiated - the Eagles team you'll see at the RWC is not reflective of the great things going on in rugby development in the States. For several reasons it's hard to put a really talented national side together. They'll give up 50 points to Ireland and the Wallabies which is a great shame as they don't deserve a drubbing, but until US rugby gets into full swing they have to play with the pros and take their lumps.

Once knew this old lady, who married this wealthy British chap. She was originally from New York, growing up there and moving to London before the 2nd world war. Anyhow, she mentioned to me her dad was a 'footballer' at university at Yale in the late 19th century and the 'football' played in those times was rugby.

The fact that the USA universities beat the NZ Universities is really not a good augment. because most of the top young talent in NZ 18-21 are in the super 15 squads, or super 15 academy squads, so it is not an accurate reflection of who is doing better at a colts level of rugby.

Great footage Sean. Thanks for posting.

Adam Byrnes is in the Russia squad?

WCR What website's / Resources do you visit to obtain your information? Thanks

KOG, you forget the total rugby experience that will be NZ. For the visiting teams, it won't be confined to just their game but to also training, sight-seeing in their host venue, etc. I think the smaller teams will enjoy the experience more than the biggest teams who habitually visit NZ. A benefit of having a small country host a tournament like this is that you can't avoid it.Friends of mine who've just been back from NZ say the country is already to show the first early signs of RWC fever. Perhaps the slow uptake is due to other reasons