There have been few players throughout the history of the AFL with a list of accolades and a playing reputation to match Adam Goodes.
For over a decade he has been Sydney’s bona fide superstar, with the ability to turn games with a touch of magic, and none exerts more influence on a game than he does.
At 31, and after more than 290 games and 330 goals, Adam Goodes may run the risk of being the forgotten man when debates about “all-time greats” and “best ofs” come around.
He was a rising star in 1999, a three time All-Australian, dual best and fairest winner, premiership player, international rules captain, Sydney Swans co-captain, member of the Indigenous Team of the Century, and to top it off, dual Brownlow medallist.
This is undeniably an amazing list of achievements that are not fully appreciated by the footballing fraternity.
Melbourne legend Gary Lyon said last year that if Goodes was playing in Melbourne he would receive much more praise and plaudits for the way he plays, and have his career even more celebrated.
This was in relation to a discussion about who the best players in the league were at the time, and Lyon was vehemently convinced that Goodes is in the Judd, Ablett and Swan bracket.
Being able to watch him play every week and having done so for 10 years, I’m in a pretty good position to judge where he stands among his contemporaries and from the past.
As a pure footballer, if you could choose one player and duplicate them into 22 to build a team, Goodes would be the one most would choose. In essence he is a ruckman who can win the ball, dispose of it beautifully, kick goals, mark, spoil, tackle and exhibit flair.
Nobody can comfortably say they can tag Adam Goodes successfully because his versatility and footballing prowess is astounding.
Having won a Brownlow as a ruckman and then as a midfielder and almost again as a forward, Goodes’ last five seasons have seen him poll 97 votes, averaging a tick under 20 votes per season.
This is not to say votes are what separates the greats from the rest but an indication of his consistency of performance even up to his 30s.
Yet again this year he has shown his match-winning and best-on-ground qualities in games against the Eagles, Lions, Pies, Bombers and Demons. A few more votes one suspects.
He rules the roost at the Swans and continues to do so in the AFL and he does not seem like slowing down.
It is perhaps unfair to be comparing the champions of our game like Judd, Swan and Ablett at their prime with a player who is well past his halycon days.
Goodes has been among the game’s elite for a long time rubbing shoulders with the likes of Buckley, Hird, Voss, Ricciuto, Bell and Crawford, and has made his mark on the game.
Do people forget how good he was and still is because they don’t bother to watch him live? The way he brings other players into the game and puts the team on his shoulders is remarkable.
With age he has become more well-rounded and impressed a lot as a forward. Being able to roam around centre-half forward and go onto the ball when the swans are being beaten in the middle and seeing him spark the team and ignite has been one of the great sights.
Not every player can do that, and having been there from when Plugger kicked his 1300th goal till Lewis Jetta kicked his first, Goodes has stood the test of time.
If the body holds up and the hunger is still there he could no doubt play for a very long time yet and reach magical milestones. Then he would be considered one of the greatest, not because of achievements but because of what he has provided for the Swans, and an influence that extends far and wide.
For those who like to get into the whole argument about who is better, Goodes versus Judd, it is important that the two most decorated modern day players are given their due respect. They should not be devalued by numbers, but we should delve into the cultural and spiritual impact that the players have had on the side.
Brett Kirk for instance may not have had the best stats record but his influence through leadership, grit and sheer will has left an eternal mark on the swans. Goodes likewise has left a mark and the young Swans team are learning a lot from one of the greatest Swans to play the game.
What do you think? Has Goodes been underrated for not playing in Melbourne, and should he be considered an all time great?
amazonfan
Roar Guru
Yes, you do. :D
Oh yes ........ I fondly remember seeing that number 6 bob up and me screaming "SILLLLLLLLLviooooooooooo" at the top of my lungs like a loon. Moving to the Saints was tragic for him; I never felt his heart was in it.
Hi Amazon, and you're right - he more than justifies selection. It was more his defection to the Bears and his 'colourful' life post-retirement which coloured my comment but that was unfair of me. I don't think I've seen a better around-the-ground mark; he would take more hangers in a season than most clubs would manage in a decade and certainly excited us all. I stand corrected :)
Redb
Roar Guru
I just liked hearing Foschini again. :)
amazonfan
Roar Guru
Great post. One question; why insert '(have to include him)' after Capper? He was a terrific player whom in 1986/87 was among the best full-forwards in the competition. Surely you don't feel any shame in including him?
I saw my first South Melbourne game in 1961 at the ripe age of five days (funnily enough, I remember little of the game LOL) and have supported them literally all my life, through the darkest days of the seventies, the turmoil of the move, the wilderness years of the late 80's and early 90's and through to today. I have been blessed to see some of the finest Bloods ever to pull on a guernsey - Skilton unquestionably at the top of the list for me - and there have been some wonderful players. Papley, Rantall, Quade, Brice, Gull, McLeish, Hoffman, Hounsell, Rhys-Jones, Foschini, Teasdale, Murphy and Bedford before the move and then the likes of Round, Bayes, Browning, Healy, Greg Williams, Capper (have to include him), Murphy, Dunkley, Mickey O, the so-unlucky Jamie Lawson, Tony Morwood, Wright, Roos, Lockett, Kelly, Schwass, Maxfield, Paul Williams and so many others since. Greg Williams is the best player I ever saw play the game (with all apologies to Bobby Skilton) and Lockett the most imposing forward there has ever been but I would put Adam Goodes in their bracket with no hesitation. He has done more, given more and achieved more for this club than any player since Skilton and his loyalty and one-team commitment makes a player of his calibre a true rarity these days. Don't be surprised if he wins a 3rd Brownlow before hanging up the boots and joins the ranks of the immortals. For me, he's already there.
Subrasub
Roar Guru
oh crap read the other blue text with mrs kussy max
Subrasub
Roar Guru
mrs kussy i agree with u that he is not there right at the top with ur locketts and what not but the pav and mcleod as u say have played for clubs in was and sa afl is life and death in those regions so of course its not gona hurt their status its an afl state. Brown is a special case as a triple p player his gona be remembered no matter what and he pav, mcleod with all due respect have never been the best 2 or 3 players in the comp at any time, as forwards yes and mcleod although very good his been overshadowed by roo mostly throughout his career so its sorta hard but goodes is totally different. There is no doubt him playing for syd has made him a peripheral figure, to what extent is up for debate.
Subrasub
Roar Guru
look this piece is just something off the top of my head and was not articulated as well as i would have liked. The main issue im trying to bring to the fore is whether playing outside of melbourne in a non afl orientated city such as sydney has sort of taken away the gloss on a stellar career. Good players are good players and will be universally hailed. However when talking about the absolute best today, he is not in the spotlight making press conferences everyday and thus people forget adam goodes even still exists to be frank. His lack of exposure in sydney where the media blowtorch is not as candescent is exacerbated by the fact that he has been part of a team percieved as blue collar and dour,thus his impact is not amplified or recognised as much. He obiviously belies that perception personally but i also think the whole issue about his worst and best being too big a gap is not fair bast on b and f finishes. With him and with most players its not all about the numbers. His duel brownlows is not a true indication or a tool of elevation to greatness because it is not a totally accurate measure of how great a player is but rather a demonstration of good ones peak is. Longevity wise he has to be now considered a great who is still playing good footy not a superstar mixing it with the best because as people have already stated the game has changed and he is passed the point where he has to prove things and should be celebrated and admired for what he has done for the club. A time of retrospective examination. Simon black is a veteran playing great footy but he does not have all this pressure to continue to mix it with the best but is rather saluted for his career. Scotty west lastly in 06 was within a whisker of winning the brownlow but at 32 he had nothing to prove and nobody was comparing him to stars of that period such as judd, goodes,cousins etc so its important now people begin to appreciate just how much he has done for syd and start pencilling him in for how he should be remembered.
Subrasub
Roar Guru
wow this is exactly how i feel personally. He is greatly underated considering the variety of roles he plays . If he plays on the ball and rests forward it would make sydney so much better but playing more forward would prolong his career. His greatest attribute is his ability to bring others into the game. Giving spangher his first goal on debut against gc with a handball over the top is something minor but it does wonders for the confidence of others. Truly spectacular and i do believe he will eventually be in that echelon of voss,hirs,buckley,ricciuto but not ur matthews,abletts etc. I think in terms of completeness he would have to be one of the most complete players of all time. Matthew pavlich is a classic example someone who is extraordinary up forward and effective in the middle put despite the physical similarities he cannot play ruck or be as effective on the ball. Once again i reiterate he is a nightmare matchup. Rotation of several opponents is necessary. The fact that a michael jamison plays on him when he plays forward and bryce gibbs tags him when he isin the middle attests to his influence wherever he plays and the impossibility of having just one opponent. Just imagine if he still played in the ruck
jc
Guest
Wholeheartedly agree. Cannot realistically compare them due to evolving game, but goodes certainly has the measure due to his versatility.
Nick
Guest
Goodes has finished in the top 3 of the Bob Skilton medal only twice as Roos and co. always marked him harshly when it came to giving out B&F votes. IMO, he was deserving of winning the award in 2007 and 2009 (meaning he would have 4 Skilton's) but lost out due to Roosy continuing to mark him relative to his absolute best. Roosy has admitted to marking him harshly numerous times by the way. Kirk got high votes every week as the gap between his best and worst was so small and he was so good at playing his role for the side (the main definition of what Roos and the coaches use when they gave out their votes - how well you played the role asked of you). If there is any justice, Horse and co. will not follow the way Goodes has been marked and Adam will win it this year or at least go top 3. He should be fighting it out with Jude and ROK. He struggles to play at the best he is capable of every week as it is so astoundingly sublime but he plays at a high level every week. He is not as inconsistent as his knockers like to claim he is. It genuinely is a myth that he inconsistent. They point to his last 2 years of averaging about 20 touches a game but fail to mention that he spends over half of each game stood in the forward 50 rather than being given license to float wherever he pleases (a role which I wish Horse would allow him to revert to). In reference to the original question, he isn't in the Carey, Lockett, Mathews category but I think he is well and truly deserving of being in the Voss, Buckley, Hird category when talking about the best players to have played the game. Will be capable of another 3 years at least playing in the AFL, I'm quite sure of that and by the end of his career, there will be no doubt that he was one of the best players to play the game.
Johnno
Guest
Well i am sure he is better than Warrick Capper.
amazonfan
Roar Guru
Edit: While I was already aware of the statistics, it is fresh, extremely informative, and a superb post. :D
amazonfan
Roar Guru
Brilliant post. :D While I was already aware of the statistics, I personally have no doubt that Farmer was the greatest Aboriginal footballer of all time. In fact, as I commented above, I mightn't even have Goodes in the top 5. For after Farmer, I would be Barry Cable. He won three Sandovers, five Simpson Medals (including three in a row for BOG in the WAFL GF), 8 B&Fs including North Melbourne's with whom he played over 100 games and came fourth in the Brownlow, played over 380 games during his entire career, and played 21 state of origin games. Kevin Sheedy has often said that should a 22nd player be added to the League Team of the Century, it should be Cable. Then I would have, Gavin Wanganeen, Andrew McLeod, & Peter Matera. Wanganeen won a Brownlow, was named an All-Australian five times, played 300 games, and could play either forward or back. McLeod won two Norm Smiths and was one of the very greatest big game players of all time. Matera won a Norm Smith, was an All-Australian five times, and was possibly the greatest wingman of all time.
Subrasub
Roar Guru
i totally agree with you right on the ball
Bayman
Guest
Goodes is certainly up there but I reckon you might get an argument for Polly Farmer as the best aboriginal footballer of all time. The problem, of course, is the passage of time and the different eras in which the two played. Personally, I have no doubt that if Farmer played today, given his physical attributes, then Goodes would be considered the better player. Goodes is quicker, better skilled on both sides of the body and he's taller than Farmer. Both had/have a great leap. In his era, though, Farmer was probably a more consistent performer than Goodes. And he revolutionised ruck play and the game with his outstanding handball. Most remember him from his days at Geelong (101 games in six seasons, 1962-67) where he captained the club and played in the 1963 premiership team. He twice won the club B&F and was runner-up in the Brownlow. The fact is, though, that Farmer played his entire career for Geelong following a severe knee injury in his first game. He missed all but the first few minutes of the 1962 season. He was never quite as mobile from then on. The Polly Farmer that played in Perth, however, before coming to Geelong was even more sensational. Two Sandover Medals, three premierships and 176 games in nine seasons with East Perth. He also won the club B&F a mere seven times in those years. In addition, he won Simpson Medals for being BOG in the 1959 GF and for being WAs best against both SA and Victoria. In the 1990s the WAFL awarded him a retrospective Sandover (his third) after he had originally lost on a count-back in 1957. After leaving Geelong he returned to Perth and joined West Perth and played in two more premierships in 1969 and 1971 (both, ironically, against East Perth). It is a massive record of achievement and his duels in Victoria with Carlton's "Big Nick" were the stuff of legend despite his physical handicap of the dodgy knee. He revolutionised ruck work in his time but it would be interesting to see him in today's game. I suspect he'd still hold his own, might even dominate, at the boundary throw-ins but they seem a bit bigger at the centre bounces these days. Farmer did, of course, have a massive leap, timed to perfection to get lift from the opposition and it would be fascinating to see the pre-Geelong Farmer, when he was at his physical peak, playing today. Come to think of it, Farmer may still have the edge on Goodes - but it sure would be worth watching.
jjjjj
Guest
I don't believe it is fair to compare goodes to ablett jnr or judd. The majority of goodes' spectacular career was played in a different era of football. The game has changed undoubtedly and is much more modern. Judd and ablett started and are still playing their careers in this new way but goodes has had to change and develop. take it back 10 years with goodes as he is now, and judd and ablett as they are now and the game played then would prove goodes to be superior. Therefore thay can never really be compared accurately or fairly based on talent and the evolution of the game. In terms of an all rounded player, now or then, goodes has the measure as he can play forward, ruck, and midfield while the judd and abletts talents are more limited. Goodes is the best player I have ever had the pleasure or honour of witnessing and I am a Carlton supporter so I can say this with no bias.
amazonfan
Roar Guru
Sorry, should have written The fact that he has finished in the top 3 of Sydney’s Best & Fairest (in both seasons he won the Brownlow) just twice is surely no coincidence.
amazonfan
Roar Guru
One of the top 5 Indigenous players of all time? I think even that is questionable. The greatest would have to be Farmer, followed by perhaps Barry Cable.You would also have Wanganeen, McLeod, & Peter Matera. As such, I'm not sure if he is one of the top 5 Indenous players of all time. Goodes is a brilliant player, and is among the most talented players of his generation. My problem with him is that he is too inconsistent. In most seasons, he struggles playing great football over the entire season. He's a classic example of a brilliant talent who may produce a match-winning performance, but then will go enter into a slump. The fact that he has finished in the top 3 of Sydney's Best & Fairest (in both seasons he won the Brownlow) is surely no coincidence. BTW, I think Pavlich has been hurt by several factors, not the least of which he plays for Fremantle.