Will Hunt, Folau be remembered as two of the best?

toa This is precisely my "angle". Three codes played professionally at the highest club standard in the space of 18 months - simply extraordinary - I don't believe it will ever be done again. I actually didn't know Hunt debuted at the age of 17 - for the NRL, that is quite unique, and says a fair bit about him (it's no longer possible to debut in the AFL at such an age, but it used to happen once upon a time). Reminds me of someone else who did extraordinary things at the age of 18. His name? One Izzy Folau. People are so quick to dismiss, as if it's all a walk in the park.

I firmly believe most have underestimated Hunts ability & the angle "Cattery" plays off certainly has substance. To shore up "The Cattery" argument and through my research Khunt age 17yrs & 3 months debut in a key position for the Broncos... hold onto that thought. Integrating and opposing some of the most fierce players let alone monstrous forward packs at a tender age of 17 is a walk in the park right? If that is true why haven't we encounter more of them? Anti Karmichael critics will tell you "k" was average player that got through multiple seasons behind a great number 6 fair enough, but how do achieve numerous best back awards and finish in the top 4 every year at club level ? How do claim man of the match awards in high pressure Heineken cup games? particularly against season veterans such as Ryan O Gara and countless rugby internationals in a game that he tampered with at school. Next the AFL commentators are screaming for his blood, the 2010 post mortem regarding his debut performance was excruciating, 5 games on claims a number of best on ground honours as a backman and two as a midfielder in 2011 {reserves}. At this stage he is holding his own.....stay tune,be patient. The "Cadel" comparison might be a tad over the top & weather you rate "K" or not blind freddy can see the achievement accomplish in a short time is outstanding. Unless your of the opinion the talent you possess outweighs karmichael's both physically & mentally, power to you.....what was your name again? Is Karmichael the best?.......No not yet apart from speculation and fantasy labels I cant find any facts that support other names....But hey have some fun and throw some out there.

My understanding is that the use of back passes introduces far too much risk for the potential reward, so it is used very sparingly, if ever.

Jvgo, Right here. "so I guess you admit that no one player can dominate a game tactically to the extent that point guards, *halfbacks*, fly halves and quarterbacks do in basketball and the other football codes, which is the only point I really made." Regarding laterals and so in the NFL, you might want to google 'Miami Wildcat' and 'Music City Miracle'. Essentially, they dont do it because the training time needed to teach various players how to pass and catch cuts into available time to train other skills, formations and so on - but, personally, if I had a Kordell Stewart/'Slash' type player, I'd certainly be using more of them.

Where did i say I want a quarterback in RL? League usually has at least 2 or 3 players charged with the major responsibility to make overrall tactical decisions and players within their roles have a far greater freedom than in American football. i'd say that is a strength not a weakness in RL. The lack of team play in American football is definitely a weakness. i can't for the life of me figure out why they don't run more rugby style plays in american football as they are allowed to throw as many back passes as they like yet never do. The HS team where I used to live threw a long back pass from the scrimmage to the wing where a second QB threw a forward pass or would run. They won a lot of games like that against bigger teams but it was pretty controversial. But I'd say the ability of say an Andrew Johns or Wally Lewis to dominate the direction of a game is one of the most impressive things you can see in league. The game really needs these players who can add unpredictabe elements into the overral structuresof the game which otherwise can become routine.

It is must be enormously embarassing for their bible to mentiion GWS all the time. Most probably aren't though. We know from the phone hacking scandal and the Govt/Police liaisions with News Ltd just how powerful and influential the media can be. Agenda much. :roll: Once News Ltd exits the game it will be interesting to see what happens to the war.

Yes, a League off-load in such circumstances is always worth the price of admission. Interestingly, the tactical advantage gained in the off-load has its parallels in the other football codes (for those who wish to step back and look for them). In Australian Football, if you are able to draw two defenders towards you, the opportunity arises to spot up a team mate running by in space, and the same can happen in rugby and soccer. Ultimately, there are a couple of principles that apply equally well to all football codes: 1. have the numerical advantage where and when the ball is to be won or is in your posession; and 2. force the opposition defence out of position to release your own player into space where either much territory will be won and/or a scoring opportunity will eventuate.

Jvgo, By wanting a quarterback as the sole skill position I think you under-rate the great game of rugby league. For me, the greatest thing about league is the ability of a great player, while tackled, to assess the tactical situation, see the open man and successfully execute the offload, while the target of a two- or three-man gang tackle.

JVGO Thing just aren't that simple or straightforward. There are designated "play makers" for different situations: there will rarely be one because the field is far too big to have just one. The play makers will be found in the centre-square bounce situation; rebounding off half-back; in forward structures around 50m arc. Teams will have designated "go to" players in different situations. But someone has to get the ball to the "go to" player in the first place - there will be structures around that. In terms of "generalship", which might be viewed differently to a "play maker" role, you need various leaders for different parts of the ground. There will nearly always be a defensive leader who makes sure correct match ups are occurring while players from both sides are rotating. The ruckman will often have a leadership role at centre bounces. The key forward will have a leadership role inside the 50m arc, calling players out of the space if it's starting to get too crowded, etc. Finally, you talk of a player "dominating", but that can be another role again. As redb pointed out, it's often the great centre-half forwards who are able to "take the game by the scruff of the neck", dominate the air, be the main route to goal coming out of defensive 50, take the big pack bursting mark to score himself or set up the full forward. All these various roles will exist at different points in a game - but I agree that there is very rarely a reliance on one player to be the "play maker" for the whole 120 minutes.

Have heard there may be a few more big name NRLers shifting to AFL. It appears the big cash injection from tv cannot come soon enough to save the sport.

So everything you just said is covered by my statement, 'AFL's strengths probably lie elsewhere', and so I guess you admit that no one player can dominate a game tactically to the extent that point guards, halfbacks, fly halves and quarterbacks do in basketball and the other football codes, which is the only point I really made. I made that point in response to your query as to why Hunt and Izzy are not really feted as irreplaceable rugby footballers (by RL followers such as myself), the reason for which seemed an utter mystery to you. I just pointed out that they are not playmakers famous for their tactical instincts but simply good athletes and therefore slightly lesser figures in the game. On field generalship (different to tactical awareness) seems to me not really such an important part of AFL, so unimportant that AFL officianados like Redb can barely recognise it and compared AFL to basketball which is curiously one of the most generaled games out there. The point is that we all know which code we prefer (to the extent that it is completely boring), but there might be other points that seem so obvious that we might even agree on them without needing to carry on like lunatics.

To back into a pack, cop the hit such that it rattles your bones, but hold onto the mark with a vice like grip, taking the misdirected spoil from your opponent to the back of your head, and then convert, is surely one of life's great achievements.

Redb I agree - slow news day with NRL writer (previously talking up the $1.4bn TV rights deal) trying to stir up controversy with back page headline...love to see the circulation figures although not mentioned on tel front page from memory...

I've played them all and I cant compare the joy of facing a Maori backrower the size (I swear) of Jonah Lomu and backing into a big pack to try and grab a mark. Just different....

That's correct about Hudson (as I've heard it). Interestingly, if you turn up to an amateur footy club, and try doing flat punts as part of training drills, you'll receive a tongue lashing from team mates and coaches alike, and you will not be a very popular player. However, anyone who has ever spent plenty of time in the forward line will have had opportunities to instinctively try a flat punt style of kick at goal, especially where there has been very little time to think about it. It's remarkable how accurate you can be when you fall back entirely on instinct, even if you've barely had a look at the goals. An old expression comes to mind: knowing where the goals are.

Australian Football is a team game, played with the most players on the biggest field of all (over three times the area of the playing surfaces of the rectangular codes). There are a number of key roles across such a large field: not just geographically, but for certain phases of play (of which there are many). Different leaders are required on different parts of the ground, and at different points of the game. If the 18 can't work together as a team, follow the game plan, play to instructions - they will lose. Australian Football is not as regimented as the other football codes, but the complexity you fail to see lies in the fact that coaches and players have to introduce structures to what would otherwise be absolute chaos. The failing is on your part if you only see chaos. Moreover, players have absolute freedom to go anywhere, and have the liberty to do much, much more than what other games allow. Tactical advantages are won by the constant moving of players, to different positions, and on and off the field. In contrast, 90% of the players of the other codes, play exactly in the position you expect them to play, and pretty much do what you expect them to do. You feel sastified in seeing precisely what you are expecting to see. You take satisfaction in the same patterns playing out precisely as you expect to see them. There is a very good reason why a dozen coaches are perched up high in the coaches box, surveying 42 players, all coming on and off every second, while an additional dozen statisticians assemble thousands of statistics in real time. In the meantime, Fergie sits in the dugout chewing gum. No disrespect intended to Fergie, but we are talking about different games with different needs.

Battle between News Ltd and Nine - fantastic...

I agree there is no comparison between Evans & Hunt. Cadel is on a different planet as an athlete. Endurance, strength & attitude - unstoppable. The stage 20 timetrial victory after a lazy 75 plus hours on competition was something to behold. Herculean peformance I havent seen anything in that stratosphere from Hunt but certainly respect his professionalism, attitude & courage to take on a new sport.

I think it's pretty self evident to anyone familiar with all the codes of football that tactical management and generalship doesn't reside in one or two players in AFL the same way that it does in the Rugby codes or American Football. I wouldn't see it as worth arguing about really. AFL's strengths probably lie elsewhere. But you may be able to explain to me how one player can control the game in AFL. Basketball by the way is point guarded to at least the extent of the rugby codes, there is no equivalent to the point guard in AFL as far as I can see. So that leaves AFL to be compared with soccer, no wonder I'm not keen on it. What i did enjoy in AFL (VFL?) was the ensemble running handball game that Carlton used to play from the back in the 80's. That was quite like what the rugby codes were meant to be.

Maybe its about News Ltd trying to keep the value of their Broncos ( I think they have to shed ownership of One NRL team and the Storm is a bit awkward at the mo) while Nine wants the second brisbane NRL team which is why the Broncos are supporting the PNG bid this weekend by wearing their colours or are they trying to build artificial Vince Mcmahon style rivalry like Roy masters Fibros vrs Silvertails