England's World Cup training squad: the second row

By Ben S / Roar Guru

Continuing my brief examination of the England World Cup training squad prior to the final squad selection, with a look at the second row.

It is fair to say that injuries aside Courtney Lawes and Tom Palmer are the starting 4 and 5 locks.

Both are probably better rugby players than they are locks which, depending on the opposition, is either a huge bonus or a huge problem.

Lawes could potentially be the next Simon Shaw. He is taller (if only marginally) than most other 4 locks playing Test rugby and has a huge wingspan.

He is fit, aggressive, mobile, has good hands, and plays like an enthusiastic teenager rather than a ruck donkey.

The main difference between them is that Lawes is far more physically callow than Shaw was at the same age, and subsequently he has taken some huge hits in certain Tests. Shaw was also far more adept in the tight.

Regardless, Lawes seeks confrontation in every match he plays, much more than Shaw ever did.

It was informative to see him search out Bakkies Botha during the November Test versus the Springboks. Despite the Springbok forward dominance that day Botha looked noticeably reluctant to engage.

Problematically, in a pack that doesn’t have any really punishing carriers, Lawes is another weak carrier, but he has started to use lateral movement rather than trying to truck over the top of opponents. This is a positive, and he is very quick to look for the pass.

Lawes does tend to give away more penalties than Palmer or Shaw, but I think that is more to do with his huge work rate rather than any underlying cynical motives. He simply covers a huge amount of ground, and is involved in multiple phases of play.

His type of aggression has been missing in the England pack for too long now, perhaps since Johnson and Grewcock laced their boots in anger.

Lawes’ partner Tom Palmer was considered the next big thing a good few years ago, but his career never kicked off. The friend of Richie McCaw won the Heineken Cup with Wasps, but he never really developed as a 5 lock there.

He played well, but Wasps have a history of not remedying the technical shortcomings of their forwards.

Having been catapulted into the side versus France in the 2010 Six Nations due to injury, Palmer staked his claim, and is now arguably one of the best 5 locks in Europe.

He is not a natural middle jumper, and has struggled running the lineout, specifically against the Springboks in November 2010. However, his general play is superb.

Palmer has the softest hands, but also has the capacity to make a crushing tackle out of nowhere, much like Lawes. On form he really has been quite excellent for England recently.

The main problem with playing Lawes and Palmer, however, is that they are both comparatively slight.

The English rolling maul has generally been very, very poor under John Wells, and neither Lawes or Palmer are natural maulers so that area of English forward play is still a concern. I wonder if their size affects the scrummage too?

Conversely, the athleticism of Lawes and Palmer allow the English pack to play a specific style of rugby, and with Sheridan, Cole and Nick Easter, England have three players able to undertake extra tight work at the breakdown so a balance is struck.

Lawes and Palmer complement each other, but sometimes their similarities are a negative.

Simon Shaw has generally performed very, very well under Martin Johnson, either when starting or coming off of the bench. He will never repeat his Lions heroics at this stage in his career, but as a substitute Shaw has made some serious impact without grabbing many headlines.

As a man of extreme experience he knows the shortest ways to most rucks, is an excellent defender of the maul, and has great defensive anticipation. Shaw is also adept at sucking in defenders as a carrier. He has this method of sticking out his right arm, collecting defenders, thereby allowing a mismatch wider out.

Apparently though, Shaw is struggling physically, and due to various shoulder injuries can only lock on one side of the scrum.

I am a huge fan of his, especially with all the experience he could bring off the bench, but goodness knows what sort of condition he is in. I’ve even read that he might not be able to make the World Cup squad.

In Shaw’s absence, Louis Deacon would likely travel to New Zealand. I have always perceived Deacon as being of typical English yeoman stock from a few decades ago. One of those forwards who will lead with his head, but doesn’t know what to do with his hands if given the ball.

He is reliable, and a solid tight forward, hitting his rucks, doing his core duties at the lineout and restart area, but without making any noticeable physical impression.

Significantly, Deacon isn’t particularly big nor that athletic in comparison to other 4 locks i.e. Botha, Nallet, Davies etc.

Basically Deacon is the lock version of Tim Payne. He will only start due to injury, and he will not let you down, but neither will he shake the world.

Although England won the most recent Six Nations, they did not do so in the same style they attempted to exercise in the Autumn. I think that’s because they missed Lawes (and also Tom Croft) in the pack.

Deacon just does not have the same athleticism as Lawes, and so when he started in the Six Nations England had one less ball player and support player in the pack which looked inward rather than outward to the wider channels.

Deacon is also comparatively injury prone.

Mouritz Botha was a surprise call-up, especially ahead of Dave Attwood, but to be fair to him he played well for Saracens, and when given an opportunity for the Saxons he took it.

Interestingly, Botha was dismissed in South African as being too skinny. He does put himself about with vigour, but if you look at him physically he does have that skinny (ish) frame of slim forearms and legs.

Botha is mobile and aggressive, like most South African locks, and is competent without being a threat in the air. His work ethic around the pitch is impressive, and he really hits his rucks hard and would form an awesome defensive locking partnership with Lawes.

I think he has a great attitude, and the sort of bite that you need in your tight five. I’d wager that Johnson will stick with Deacon on the basis of his experience and connection with the other Leicester forwards, but I think it would be worth taking a risk and bringing Botha depending on how he performs in the warm-up games.

In conclusion, England has Lawes, Shaw, Deacon and Botha competing for the 4 spot, and only Palmer the genuine 5 lock.

England do have an absence of top-line 5s, which means that they tend to rely a little heavily on Palmer and Croft in certain facets of play.

I suppose given how England struggled at the breakdown against South Africa and Ireland, Johnson might be considering playing two 4 locks in certain Tests against forward orientated sides like Georgia or Argentina.

I would start with Lawes and Palmer, as I feel they bring a different dimension to the way England play, with Shaw, if fit, coming off the bench. Not only does Shaw offer considerable size, but also experience and he can play a much tighter game than any of the other locks can.

England may well bring rely on Tom Croft to cover that 4th lock position like Sir Clive Woodward did with Martin Corry, but given Shaw’s physical ailments I’d bring Botha along. England are in a physical pool with some granite packs, and to that extent a player like Botha with everything to prove could be a real fillip.

World Cup Squad tight five:
Sheridan, Cole, Wilson, Stevens
Thompson, Hartley, Mears
Lawes, Palmer, Shaw, Botha

The Crowd Says:

AUTHOR

2011-07-29T09:32:11+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


Robson is a shorty, Colin. Post-WC we'll lose (I'm assuming) Thompson, Shaw, Worsley, Moody, Easter and Tindall. To that extent I'd chuck in some older players like Botha and Fourie for a season or two if they are playing well. If Botha plays well in the warm-up games I'd chuck him in the WC squad. I don't think England could win a WC with a player like Deacon. Although it's unlikely either would start. Launchbury and Matthews were excellent, weren't they. Some very impressive performers in that side.

2011-07-28T19:43:06+00:00

Colin N

Guest


Agree about Attwood, it seems like he has suffered from that stupid act of petulance which cost him several weeks on the sidelines. Botha has had a great season but at the age of 29, can he realistically force himself into the England first team? Shaw and Deacon have that experience which Botha doesn't. At least we seem to be building a relative amount of strength in depth in that area with Kitchener, Attwood and Gaskell all performing extremely well last season, and the likes of Joe Launchbury and Charlie Matthews performing outstandingly well for the under-20s. Even someone like George Robson shouldn't be discounted.

AUTHOR

2011-07-28T15:53:46+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


I'm a huge fan of Gray but I'm less than convinced about Kellock. Should be a good match-up though, both sides have comparatively mobile tight fives.

2011-07-28T12:46:55+00:00

CizzyRascal

Roar Guru


It will be interesting to see how they fare against the other lock combinations in this group. Argentina have one of the finest second row forwards in world rugby in Albacete but outside of him there is a massive drop down in quality. Scotland probably possess the strongest group of locks outside of South Africa. They'll most likely go with Kellock and Gray, who will cause England a lot of problems at the line out. And imagine they can then spring Hines from the bench? Georgia will most likely have Gorgodze in at second row who is an incredibly physical player and will relish any confrontation that is brought anywhere close to his direction.

AUTHOR

2011-07-28T10:35:32+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


I don't know, Chris. I think Shaw could still bring a lot to the table. I know it was a good few months ago now, but as soon as he came on against Wales, for example, he did two or three things that Deacon would struggle to do in an entire season. I wish Attwood had been selected, tbh. Agree re: Botha & Croft.

AUTHOR

2011-07-28T10:32:22+00:00

Ben S

Roar Guru


I agree re: locks carrying, although there are some good carrying locks like Richie Gray and Brad Davies.

2011-07-28T09:08:42+00:00

Johnno

Guest


I think at full fitnness the old warhorse Simon Shaw will go down as one of the great locks of all time. Seam Fitzpatrick was a huge fan of his. Anyone who wants to watch a lesson n how to be top class Rugby lock watch the British and Irish lions game 2 Loftus Pretoria. He got the better of botha and martfield in a hard fought contest, in fact all 3 were impressive that day as was Paul O'connell. But yep he was great but martin johnson kept him out of the team alot of the time in his career. But still an awsome player. and he had that great Lions match at 35 and half years of age. Not bad for a man that age and 6'8 a giant. But now 2 years on maybe the old warhorse has 1 more big tournamant left iin him the next month will tell fitness wise the Eng team will no if he is ready or not. I hope he is as him and Wilkinson provided some sparks and calm experience of the bench at the clutch in some of those 6 nations matches over the last year. Have a feeling wilkinson may start form the quarter finals onwards over Toby Flood, but who knows, he got england to the finals last time in 2007 almost on his own. I think butch james gets under his skin though, he probably got the better of wilkinson in the 2007 RWC final. I think butch james is underrated, he is a quality 5/8. PDV likes him to so i think he is a better option for South Africa to start over Steyn. , More agressive, and better running game.

2011-07-28T03:55:55+00:00

Gumboot

Roar Rookie


Great article Ben, I don't have much to add but thanks for the info because I don't get to hear much about the English rugby team apart from the usual irrelevant crap about Englands 'all black' away strip blah blah blah (I'm a kiwi BTW) and I for one rate the English side high come the WC (hope I'm wrong though). Keep the articles coming mate, great research. Cheers

2011-07-28T03:54:16+00:00

stuff happens

Guest


Interesting piece. The tight five is the one area where England must have superiority over the opposition if they are to have a chance of taking the RWC.These guys will have a huge responsibility for the campaign.In other areas England may prove to be very good but are unlikely to have superiority over the better teams over 80 mins. I'd imagine they're having an interesting RWC training programme with Martin J!

2011-07-28T00:52:58+00:00

ChrisT

Guest


Unfortunately Ben I reckon Shaw is shot as the bench option. Performances have tailed and this tournament is one too far. We’re living on memories. Having said that I’m almost certain Johnson will pick him there – part due to the other options available. Deacon can do a job but adds nothing (not even the promise), Botha looks promising but unless given significant warn up game time will remain an unknown at test level and playing Croft at lock subtracts half of what he brings to the side. Still, forgetting the bench, a quality starting 4 and 5 in Lawes and Palmer isn’t exactly bad news and they probably represent a style of play required to be successful outside of the group stages.

2011-07-27T23:12:17+00:00

sixo_clock

Roar Guru


Another well researched piece. Well done. One point. I do not like the practice of using locks in planned hit-ups, they just cannot get low enough and are lost to the subsequent ruck defense so using them as carriers is wasteful. Better to have those long arms and legs free to harry, grabbing and stepping over the midgets.

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