How do we grow the mid-tier of rugby? We have this ARC discussion every couple of years. It’s dead and buried and best left where it lays, unfortunately.
I used to espouse the ‘build it and they will come’ idea, but now I think it is a lot simpler than that. It requires evolution. Or to put it another way, ‘back to the future.’
Take the existing structures and simplify them – as I have argued for years, let other countries worry about how they are going to get stronger. We can’t change the world, but we can change our patch.
The trouble with these grand ideas that we all have is that you need to have ten Clive Palmers to fund them, and that usually doesn’t last when they realise they’re getting nothing back for their investment. Look at football.
I’ve said it every year on this site. Cricket has the right structure – the Sheffield Shield with one team per state (every state without exception), one central body, everything filtering down from the top. Not a bunch of city- or state-based unions all trying to be the biggest gorilla in the zoo.
National competitions bring sponsors with a national focus, but it has to be a fair dinkum national competition.
There are just about enough quality players here and overseas, including recent schoolboys and under-20s , to form the requisite number of teams, even if you have to have a draft system.
OK, if Tassie doesn’t want to be in it, invite Australian Services in or an indigenous side, or have a President’s XV made up of promising players, or an Emerging XV or an AIS team, or a Barbarians side, coming from anywhere and everywhere (and I know that Johnno and the other Baa-Baa’s guys would love that concept).
State pride comes naturally to everyone, manufacturing teams with artificial names, doesn’t. So if you want Rams, have them as a sponsor.
Take the teams, give them novel names like New South Wales, The ACT, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania (OK, let them have their nicknames), then filter that down to the existing clubs, where there is ready-made loyalty.
Think about it, the Sydney clubs have names like Randwick and I bet that there are just as many people calling them Randwick as there are the Wicks or the Greens or the Galloping Greens.
Did someone manufacture the Rats for Warringah, or did it just kind of surface over time. Of course, West Harbour should really be called the Rats, after stealing the Pirates moniker from my beloved Norths, but that’s another story for the folklore archives. The Shoremen will do us for now.
So let’s make the Premier clubs pay for the privilege of being Premier clubs – force them to have academies, put the subbies structure under the Premier structure again, based on geographical lines. Top to bottom, no deviations.
Keep the schools rugby system apart from the junior clubs and give the kids a chance to play for their school on Saturday and their local club on a Sunday. I know that happens in some cities, but not all.
In my home town, Canberra, it’s rugby on Saturday and league on Sunday – lousy choice, if you ask me – and all the time, AFL is quietly making its inroads.
I don’t have a problem in keeping the clubs mostly amateur – intersperse the mid-tier (Sheffield Shield-like competition) throughout the regular club season.
The clubs should be happy to lose their rep players every now and then to the state team – just like it was in the good old days (and they were good old days).
We proudly went along to a State game, knowing that one or two of our club mates were running out for the New South Wales Waratahs (I don’t think we called them Tahs, back then). Then the next week we were having a beer with them back at the club, talking about the game.
Have ye weekends so that we can all go to the SCG (I know – I’m reminiscing) for a Saturday arvo like they used to be. Oh, those Moore Park pubs, arriving at the ground just in time for the kick off, back to the pub after the game, meeting your mates! Dinner in Paddo, pub crawl – The Clock, The Dolphin, et al (haven’t seen Al in years).
Every time we went to a Test you’d run into blokes from Brisbane that were mates of mates, and always lots of blokes in kilts with funny accents, probably lawyers from the eastern suburbs who didn’t get many chances to wear a dress outside the house.
Is there a better way to spend a Saturday in winter?
You could weight it so that many of the games were played after the Super Rugby season, so that you do have your non-Test stars playing – leave the Test level stuff to the elite guys and make sure that all games are able to be fitted in, together, in a co-ordinated way.
This is all about making the mid-tier stronger – we need to get used to the concept that this will be a tier that will produce a lot of good, but not good enough players – just like in the clubs, if you have depth right down through the grades, you make your top grades stronger.
Why did the Sydney clubs get rid of 5th and 6th grades – they weren’t hurting anyone, just adding to the fabric of the game, and the richness of the clubs’ figurative tapestries!
You would still have your Test Season. In Rugby World Cup years, dispense with the Tri-Nations and play invitational games (don’t like the term “friendlies”) and involve the Barbarians a lot more than they are. They’re being wasted!
The cricket clubs are used to the idea that they are not going to have their superstars around very much. Yes, admittedly a lot of Sheffield Shield Cricket is played mid-week in almost empty stadiums, but that doesn’t seem to bother anyone.
Wouldn’t happen in our game, anyway. Besides, if you play mid-week in an empty stadium the TV stations are bound to turn up, if only out of sheer curiousity.
Let’s try a few things, such as the odd mid-week game – I remember going to a mid-week Sydney versus All Blacks game at Penrith Panthers Stadium in the early 90s. Not a huge crowd, but a good game and a good night out, and a great venue.
The Sydney team was packed with future Wallabies, such as Tuynman, Farr-Jones and others (must have been a lead up to the ’91 World Cup, but my memory is hazy on that). Probably a valuable hit-out for both sides and if memory serves, it didn’t even make the late news.
So what?
It was a legitimate attempt to get rugby out into the western suburbs. These days we only pay lip service to that concept. I hope the re-birth of the SRU makes some more of those bold moves.
Professionalism is making our enjoyment of our game sterile. We go to games now as though it was a night out at the movies. The atmosphere is manufactured, you can’t have a beer with the players after the game like you used to.
There isn’t a rugby club within a bull’s roar of the bigger stadiums and the games are at night, when you can’t drive and drink, so by the time you get out of the stadium (we used to call it ‘the ground’) your only job is to get home without being breathalysed or getting mugged on the bus.
Even if we did half the things that I am espousing, it wouldn’t be a return to the bad old days, because they are, happily, behind us. TV does like us a lot more than it did twenty years ago.
Yes, of course professionalism has moved that along, but it has also moved so fast that it has left a vacuum for that mid-tier to flourish in.
So why not go back to the future?
gatesy
Roar Guru
artificial names, again!! what's the point - why not spread them around the country? Don't you Sydney blokes get it?
gatesy
Roar Guru
Agreed, and alll good stuff, but you don't concede my point about it being national and state-based, so I'm taking that as a no - my point is that any other model is artificial, and your point about greed (=mine about gorillas in the zoo) will always be the case, unless the ARU takes charge, adopts a top down approach, makes it a bit artificial to start with (ie enforcing drafts and salary caps) and gets it established, once and for all, with every state on an equal footing. Yes, it will take a while, but it will work.
Working Class Rugger
Guest
Originally it was supposed to include the 5 Aus SR Academies but now it appears to be two teams consisting of the best players from all 5 in two teams. I have to say I am rather disappointed about this as I would have preferred to see all 5 participate individually.
Matthew Skellett
Guest
Grass roots ARC type national competition rugby WILL NOT HAPPEN while Mr O'Neill is in charge . As to TRADITION -TRADITION is really just something that someone/entity did at some point in history (however silly or meaningless it might have seemed at the time) and thought that it should be done again and again and again etc. etc. etc.So hey knock yourselves out for the next coupla years !!
p.Tah
Guest
Kovana I'd heard it was the Australian super rugby academy sides not just Sydney and Brisbane joining this comp, but I'm not sure.
Denby
Guest
I have always thought, why not just split the all the Australian super rugby teams into two teams and have them all play each other in a national comp? If you add together the whole Waratahs squad plus accademeny players and then split the team so an even mix of both starting players and accademy players are in each team. The the coaching staff could be split the same way. This would kind of be like a possibles v probables each time they play. For the Waratahs, they could be the Sydney Goannas and the Western Sydney Funnel Webs. One based in North Sydney Oval and one in Parramatta (these are just examples). This would substancially reduce the overheads of running the whole comp and provide a very simple way to start the comp.
kovana
Guest
Perhaps a bit off topic.. But heard a rumor that 2 Sides (Brisbane and Sydney) from Oz and 5 Teams from NZ (Waikato, Otago, Auckland, Wellington and Canterbury) will join the 'A' sides of Tonga, Fiji and Samoa in a expended Pacific Rugby cup.... Just like they had this year in 2011. Any news?
Rough Conduct
Guest
By far the easiest and cheapest way to establish our own NPC is to develop NSW Country and QLD Country into semi-pro teams, creating a 7 team NPC played after Super Rugby. Both these teams already have their own union, catchment area, identity and reason to exist, they can play out of Central Coast and Sunshine Coasts respectively. NSW and QLD are both huge rugby provinces and neither of their teams play any games outside the metropolitan area (no, trial games don’t count), there is a fan-base and corporate support ready and waiting to support such teams, not to mention the ability to attract Super Rugby players that are from regional areas. It really is a no-brainer for me, 7 real teams, real ‘rugby’ grounds, real rivalries and the most talented non-wallaby SR, academy and club players in the country – this is a marketable product. Whatever money the ARU does have for developing a domestic competition – if any, should be spent this way, it will deliver the biggest bang for their buck. Start small, develop the teams, develop the market, by the time SR broadcast contract expires, the ARU will be ready to add an 8th team (SA or NSW Metro), Super Rugby can then evolve into the qualification championship we all want.
sheek
Guest
Gatesy, I do think one point I made above is quite relevant (& we're both agreed a national domestic comp of some type is required). That is, an 8-10 team APC/ARC (either professional or semi-professional, whatever the game can afford) is necessary to expand the professional player pool, which hopefully might take pressure off the premier rugby clubs going down the professional path. Premier rugby should remain amateur into the foreseeable future. The premier rugby clubs in Sydney & Brisbane are killing each other & themselves engaging in a financially destroying bind. Someone with authority should step in & shout, "Stop this now"! Because ultimately,it's affecting all other levels of the game. I also believe, as often happens in these situations, too much money is being paid to the administrators, marketeers, lobbyists, consultants & accountants at ARU HQ at North Sydney, & too little is making its way to the heartlands. As Mahatma Gandhi famously said, "The world has enough resources for everyone's need, but never enough resources for everyone's greed". I would think precisely the same argument applied to Australian rugby union.
gatesy
Roar Guru
It's a good point that you make about manufacturing tradition. Each of those teams started, though, from a base, where there was a need for a team, because there was a vacuum. However, last time I was in Perth, I got the distinct feeling that many people over there just don't know anything about the Force, because it is such an AFL-centric place (correct me if I am wrong) The Brumbies got traction early because they were winners (played their first S12 final in their second year), and Canberra is a town that gets behind their teams The Rebels have done it, because they have been fortunate to have a group like the Rebel Army out there pushing the cause and making a noise (thanks to modern day social networking). As to whether the Force and the Rebels can penetrate their tough markets remains to be seen, over the next few years. But my basic premise remains - give the fans an identifiable brand and give the administrators an identifiable pathway, and we could have a national second-tier competition as a reality in a short time frame.
sheek
Guest
Gatesy, A well presented, impassioned plea. I know from previous clinches we tend to disagree on some fundamentals, but reading your post, it's intriguing to note we start from the same base. We tend to disagree on the route we're going to take from the base of the mountain (juniors) to the summit (Wallabies)! Look, I love the provincial concept, & for the first 30 years I followed the game (1968-2000) it was what I saw as the future of a great Australian Provincial Championship. The coming of the Brumbies & then the Force suggested this would indeed be the future. I loved the concept of the Wallaby Trophy (1968-77). It failed miserably, coinciding with a mostly very weak period for the Wallabies. I believe to this day, the concept was sound, but the timing was poor. It was a concept ahead of its time. Fo example, the SA Currie Cup only became an annual exercise in 1968, while the NZ NPC would not be born until 1976. In the future I saw the APC/ARC & Australian Rugby Shield replicating the WT first & second division. But how long did the actual APC last? One season - 2006. And what did the Rebels call themselves - Victoria? No way - they are Melbourne! The Rebels at least have emphatically indicated that any future will be ARC, not APC. Australian rugby has the choice to stick with a SA/NZ style provincial comp, but it appears if such a national domestic comp is to appear in the future, it will be modeled on the AFL, NRL & A-League. Johnno above mentions the NEAFL, which has also been pushed by Ian Whitechurch. At first glance I don't like it. Adopting it to rugby would mean two conferences based around the Sydney Shute Shield premier rugby clubs & Brisbane Hospitals Cup premier rugby clubs. The 12 Sydney clubs would be joined by Waratahs reserves & Brumbies reserves, while the 10 Brisbane clubs would be joined by Reds reserves, Rebels reserves, Force reserves & perhaps Newcastle. Two x 14 team comps, with perhaps cross-over semis & finals. The idea of Waratahs reserves playing say Randwick, & Reds reserves playing say Brothers, & Brumbies reserves playing say Gordon & Rebels reserves playing say Sunnybank, just doesn't grab me. But this is what happens with the NEAFL, with Swans reserves & Lions reserves playing club sides. It just seems very odd to me. And what are we going to do about premier rugby? The clubs are destroying each other & themselves by engaging in a destructive professional spiral of ruin. The game of rugby can't afford to be professional below super rugby level. Certainly not right now. Maybe that is why we need an 8-10 national domestic comp to increase the pool of professional players,but keep premier rugby strictly amateur. The ARU can further help by ensuring no player at premier rugby, suburban rugby, regional rugby or junior rugby level has to put their hand in their pocket to pay for jerseys, shorts, sox, boots & mouthguard. Medical insurance covered as well ,of course. Surely, the ARU could do this? It would be a public relations master-stroke! Pay the talking suits, the bean counters & bright ideas boys less & give the saved money to the communities. Gatesy, right now I don't really know anymore. Instead of clarity, I see muddy waters ahead (& about a dozen blues numbers came into my head!). But I will say this - for those of you who say you can't manufacture tradition, I say "rubbish"! Just look at what the Brumbies, Force & now Rebels have achieved in a very short time. As long as its done thoughtfully & tastefully, new ideas will work. All history, tradition & tribalism started somewhere. It just didn't plonk itself down one day & say, "here I am". Then there's this gem from the Star Wars saga: "Every generation has a legend; Every journey has a first step; Every saga has a beginning".
Johnno
Guest
I love pro sport, but despite loveing pro sport people are still grassroots , when it come to club pro sport comps at least in Australia. In sydney you have so many different cultures and hearltands, and demographics and lifestlyes( rich, middle class,lower middle class), married with kids, married no kids, single parents, no married no kids), that to have 1 central team to represent the city usually doesn't work as the 1 club takes on 1 specific identity, and the rest can't relate , hence then that club becomes a minority to an even larger majority problem. We see tis problem with the Waratahs( i like to call them the Moore Park Waratahs), and sydney F.C who I also like to call Moore park F.C . Both these teams are ghosts in there own town, the largest city in oz with a population of 4.5 million and they are hardly noticable by the majority. I like the model of the AFL feeder comps, the SANFL, WAFL, and QAFL, and now there new comp which i like the best is cal the NEAFL i think. It is divided up into 2 conferences east and north. East is teams from ACT/NSW, and up north form teams in NT/QLD. It works great because you get heaps of local derbies, which is what rated on tv and crowds. That is why i would like a conference style system brought in to the AFL and NRL. Then the teams that place top go into a National finals comp to decide the national winner. And there has been a really good knockout comp in Aussie rules that has been on foxtel this year that i have been watching that has been really good to watch, as it based along the lines of a conference stlye champions league format, form teams outside the AFL. State league soccer in all states is big to in australia in some sections in each state. The Mirabella cup which was on in victoria was popular to, grass roots comp once again. I think that is how the GAA sports (of gaelic football and hurling work in Irleand but I don't no for sure). Plenty of rugby league fans in QLD miss the the QRL, and do not like the Brisbane Broncos, hence the push for the Ipswich jets, or a new south East QLD side. I have not watched a NRL match this season or for 5 years unless it has been an all sydney team only in the finals and grand final would i watch a team not from NSW. so have a conference style champions league for AFL, NRL, and rugby union works best for Australia in my opinion.