Wallabies fans have very short memories

Sam I can't agree the Wallabies defence slided immediately after MacQueen. The Wallabies had a ton of problems from 2005-2007 but defence was never one of them. The Wallabies defensive effort in South Africa in 2007 remains one of the finest displays of defence ever. It's no coincidence South Africa won that game off penalties and two drop-goals. They weren't going to get through the Wallabies. Really Australia's defence only slided when Deans came on board. Who's the Wallabies defence coach anyway?

Guys, Australia has always had to punch above its' weight in International rugby. We don't have the player numbers, depth, experience or traditions of NZ and SA (or England & France for that matter). Wallabies have, however, won 2 world cups selecting squads from mainly 2 - 3 states/ territories, ie a smaller player pool. And produced two world cup-winning coaches who marshaled those players and oversaw the campaigns - take a bow Bob Dwyer and Rod MacQueen. Not a bad record. O'Neill wanted Deans in '07 and he probably was the best applicant for the job at that time. I think most supported the appointment - some were shocked to see a non-Aussie appointed. Perhaps for that reason, he was over-hyped (deified!) to counter any nationalist backlashes.Hype and deification is always ridiculous in Pro sport or business cause it is a very tough job dependent upon many variables. KPIs must always be in play. Accountability. Dean's record of performance with the Wallabies is currently not good. The next 2 Tri-Nations games and this RWC tournament provide an opportunity for him to improve his record. 1. It is ridiculous to even consider renewing his contract right now. The obvious time for performance review is post RWC 2.The performence of Williams and Nucifora deserve thorough review 3. Kicking coaching with Van Straaten via Skype should be reviewed (or drop-kicked) No need for this to become an emotional, irrational argument - let's keep it professional (listening ARU) and get rid of the deification & hype. Meanwhile, I wish Robbie Deans and the Wallabies the best and will support them every time they turn out. Go Wallabies!

in regards to the old line of that the wallabies dont have the cattle to compete. when has this ever been different? australia has always had a strong squad of 30 players and not much more. there are now 2 extra teams in oz to groom players, they may not have the same purpose as kiwi players in the same situation but still enough to select a top full strength side. how come the old lack of cattle line is never never trotted out after a win?? deans is in a lot of ways the problem because he is the one who puts the team together and has the control on who to develop. his fans claim that he is solely responsible for developing certain players but is not responsible for not putting the right cattle on the field?? not much of a contradiction is it there fellas!! great coach with the saders but damn, how good were those teams? when you have an allblack front row and AM/DC running the show, how can they not be successful? the chest beating is laughable and pretty understandable considering the lack of success, so any result is a god send to the average fan. it may be sport and for our enjoyment, but it is the players/coaches etc paying jobs. the fun factor lie is used to get kids to play, not for grown men and women to excuse what is a very high paid profession from losses or poor performance. i certainly dont invest my time, money and energy into the my sporting teams to just excuse poor performance because it is supposed to be a release from something in my daily life. i play sport for enjoyment and to win, but if it was my JOB, then it becomes a job like any other, and i have the responsibility to perform. on any legitimate criteria deans should not hold his position, but if its all about the WC, then his contract isnt up now is it? if the results dont follow then how can his contract be renewed. his fans cant claim he is the messiah, if he forgets to bring the bread and wine to the table. being a cantab myself, it annoys me now that i have to see the real robbie as opposed to the god we saw when he was at home. point is the wallabies have sufficient players to put in a strong team, deans just has too much love for pop gun attack as opposed to a strong team dynamic. all we ever hear about from the media and hence the average punter is what the backs are going to do, and how they will do it. unfortunately there seems to be either too much blind faith or absolute rage from supporters and detractors alike and hence both sets of opinions lose value. u should be like us kiwis, brag because our team wins, but understand that we can get done in any game and have to earn our results and keep working hard. have a bit of middle ground, we need to think like this because we have you sniping ozzies reminding us about bill all the damn time!!

Moaman Not sure what you are trying to say but Australia has far fewer players to choose from than the 4 other major unions- New Zealand, South Africa, France and England. For example: England has 2.5 million registered players, a 14 team fully professional competition and a fully professional second tier... South Africa has 630,000 odd players and 14 professional provincial teams... France has 315,000 registered players and full Top 14 professional comp... New Zealand has 137,000 registered players and 5 professional provincial teams... Australia has 87,000 and 5 professional provinces... As a matter of fact, Australia has fewer grass roots registered players than the United States. .

Union recruits from Private Schools. If they actually recruited from amongst the peasants they might go a lot better,

Isn't the BIG question---given that Australia actually have MORE players per se-why is the "playing-pool" or Top 40 so much weaker? <-------Doesn't this mean that remedial work must be done at a structural level immediately?

A note from the author- thanks everyone for your comments. A few observations below: I’m not from Canterbury or Robbie Deans in disguise. I am, however, sitting in London away from the Australian media hype that inevitably whips up a frenzy of coach hate to sell papers. What is it about Aussie sporting fans that makes them jump on bandwagons, good and bad? I am shocked to be honest by the level of anti-Deans sentiment going around Australia. He is probably the most respected coach by the French and English. The Welsh had Graham Henry, now have Gatland and can't stand either. The fact of the matter is that Deans has, from the ashes of 2007, taken the youngest side in Wallaby history and put 31 points on the Boks in Bloemfontein in 40 minutes before going on to snap a 40 year hoodoo. He’s beaten the AB’s once and taken them very close on several other occasions. What they did to France in Paris caused a huge swell of admiration for how they played the game of rugby in the northern hemisphere (something unheard of before under Connolly, Jones and even McQueen). That the side is currently second best in the world is no shame especially when the average age of the Wallabies is 24 and the average age of the All Blacks is 29. Fair enough McKenzie did a great job at the Reds. But even the Reds went through a heap of pain before he was able to sort them out. Remember the 93 v 3 scoreline- James Horwill, James Slipper, Quade Cooper and GDigby Ioane were all on the field that night. Young sides need to get belted before they get better. They are inconsistent almost always. All this nonsense about Deans being lost because he picks players out of position is ridiculious too- McQueen picked Larkham who considered himself a genuine 15 as a 10. Cockbain was a lock and got moved to 6. Eddie Jones used to play Waugh and Smith in tandem. I'm pretty sure he even played Little on the wing and Horan at 10 for a few tests. The posts above remind me of when everyone was giving it to Mick Malthouse when Collingwood used to just miss the eight or drop out in the semis or preliminary finals. Great teams take time to build and Deans is a master at building them. Anybody who wants to say that Deans wasn't the key figure in the Crusaders resurgence is quite simply an idiot. It's like saying Wayne Bennett didn't do much at the Broncos. Carter, McCaw and Thorn all say the same thing. They have huge respect for him. The point of this article was that it is obvious the players, when they put the coacking staff’s plans into practice, can be world beaters but it is up to Elsom and Cooper to pull their fingers out and steady the ship. If you, Mr Red Rooster, are close to the players and understand “what is and isn’t going on” please enlighten us? From where I stand, I see a bunch of talented kids that are mentally soft and distracted by the feminisation of society- tv adds, high profile girlfriends, hair styles and contract negotiantions where a man’s word doesn’t mean anything anymore…

Red Rooster/ MOC I'm not from Canterbury or Robbie Deans in disguise. I am, however, sitting in London away from the Australian media hype that inevitably whips up a frenzy of coach hate to sell papers without taking an objective look at things. It's pretty easy to sell papers to arm chair critics with little knowledge of the game. The fact of the matter is that Deans has, from the ashes of 2007, taken the youngest side in Wallaby history and put 31 points on the Boks in Bloemfontein in 40 minutes. He's beaten the AB's once and taken them very close on several other occasions. What they did to France in Paris caused a huge swell of admiration for how they played the game of rugby in the northern hemisphere (something unheard of before under Connolly, Jones and even McQueen). The point of this article was that it is obvious the players, when they put the coacking staff's plans into practice, can be world beaters but it is up to Elsom and Cooper to pull their fingers out and steady the ship. If you, Mr Red Rooster, are close to the players and understand "what is and isn't going on" please enlighten us? From where I stand, I see a bunch of talented kids that are mentally soft and distracted by the feminisation of society- tv adds, high profile girlfriends, hair styles and contract negotiantions where a man's word doesn't mean anything anymore...

John Muggleton would have been a hell of a lot better than Deans. A hell of a lot better. And in reference to DS below - I suspect Nucifora is part of the problem as well. He went really great as a foreign coach at Auckland, not.

Agree OJ. Mitchell was the Head-Honcho and in charge of the forwards but most in NZ suspected Robbie was pulling Mitchells strings much of the time. He's often credited for the 'discovery' of Carter which is ridiculous. Carter played age-groups, he was already a known talent. Through Deans he was given an early opportunity and Dan did good. With the talent Dan had then and the potential he showed, he was always going to do well just as Anscombe, Barrett and Blayendaal are likely to do. 2003 WC selections stretched the loyalty of every AB fan (outside of Canterbury/Crusaders) as established AB's missed selection, replaced by Crusaders. I have never forgiven him for Christian Cullen's non-selection to be replaced by BEN BLAIR FFS! And Reuben Thorne???? Its interesting watching similar scenarios unfolding in Oz. Agreed he's more suited to development and SR (he's not a total loss) but as far as international coaching goes...I don't trust him. Glad he's your problem and not ours.

that argument really only has legs if it's the 2nd 15's that fight out the world cup

I agree with all that you've said - it was a no-brainer back in '08 - if JON hadn't gone after him there would have been an uproar ... but I do think that he's been painted as being something he wasn't or expected to deliver what was out of his reach .... the fault really lies with the ARU - it looks as though they set the boat afloat with any sort of rudder - I'm not even going to try to say I know the workings of Aust rugby (and esp not more than yourself) - but I've always felt that Aust rugby coaches have been between a rock and a hard place esp when it comes to the whole player power scenario ... Deans wouldn't have had any experience of such an environment and really hasn't been able to manage it ... that is one reason why I reckon Henry would have been a far better option (if the roles were reversed) he succeeded in Wales where there appears a player power element I agree with OJ that once it was apparent Deans wasn't succeeding then something needed to be done - perhaps there wasn't an alternative - but a better support structure was needed .... Williams, Nucifora appear totally hopeless .. one of Deans' failings has been not to identify decent support staff and also not been big enough to acknowledge his faults

OJ, The world cup hasn't been played & won yet. So perhaps we should wait until that's over. For me, if Deans gets the Wallabies to the final, he's doen the best he could do. yes, Deans has had plenty of opportunities, & the results have been disappointing. But unlike you, I can't see this is straight black & white.....

Who cares how many Super rugby titles he's won? How many test matches has he won? How many has he lost? Quade Cooper just won a Super rugby title, does that excuse his performance at Eden Park? Nobody's saying he wasn't the right choice in 2008. I was arguing just the other day that things started off much better for him in 2008 and grew progressively worse, but by the end of 2009 it was obvious it wasn't working. The Wallabies had a 42.9% winning record that year. Anyway, this isn't getting us anywhere. Every time you say he was a multiple-time Super Rugby winning coach, there was no better alternative, he doesn't the cattle, none of which has anything to do with his match to match failures. You can't say he hasn't had chances. Has any coach in the history of test match rugby had more chances than Robbie Deans in his current tenure?

Daley is a little older than Slipper. Rather than Slipper being on the bench for Saturday fortnight, he may well partner Daley for the Ba Ba's on the Friday night. Will be an interesting game, I think.

No, we're quite happy that the Wallabies are leaderless and disorganised. I am with KPM on this - how many Wallabies would make it into the current All Black squad? Or draw up a Trans-Tasmna v Rest of World team? How many Wallabies would be playing?

The pool is bigger than ever, its a lazy argument.

FOS, That's a fair point - Robinson is the cover for Pocock, & I guess on that score he will be selected in the world cup squad, or should be. And yes, perhaps his inclusion to this point should have been handled better. i also agree Gill is a real beauty, & it's a shame that the 2011 world cup is too soon for him.

Darwin Stubby, My apologies for suggesting you hated Deans. It was convenient to lump you in with OJ, which wasn't fair to you. However, I know both you & OJ have riled against this perception that Deans was some kind of messiah. I never bought it either. I have simply argued he was the best candidate for the job in 2008, irrespective of where he came from. I'm also disappointed he hasn't achieved more with the Wallabies, but I also ask the question - in all seriousness, who else could have done a better job in the same time-frame? Ewen McKenzie is ready to coach the Wallabies in 2012, but he wasn't ready in 2008-10. Alan Jones was too old, & has been out of coaching for 20 years. He's no longer a young man, & he would still have been distracted by his radio commitments. Laurie Fisher & John Muggleton simply weren't good enough, & David Nucifora was seen as too divisive. There simply wasn't anyone else in the 2008-11 timeframe who could have taken the gig. Except maybe John Connolly, but his relationship with John O'Neill is poisonous, so that wouldn't have worked either. And why is it the players aren't held accountable? At the end of the day, to use a common expression, a drover's dog could coach the Wallabies, providing they're sufficiently motivated themselves to succeed.....

You dont need medium term, you needed 5-8 Tests until the RWC final out of him, and that was that. Look, I think - and hope - that Beau Robinson will be overtaken by Gill next season for the Reds, but that does not change the fact he is presently the second best openside option in the country. If Pocock goes down at the RWC in round one, what happens? If we sub him out, he cant come back. So you'd think it would have handled better.