While there are lower divisions in several areas, such as the bush groups, New South Wales Cup, Queensland Cup or Jim Beam Cup, none of these competitions truly gather together the best player depth possible outside the NRL.
Some of their clubs are able to maintain their viability either through die-hard fans from first division (Newtown, North Sydney) or the old BRL fans.
But including all or a majority of these teams in a second division would be a mistake, diluting quality in an effort to please everyone, many of whom have local NRL teams.
Emphasis should be placed on rural areas, to give a kick start to bush footy.
In many areas, providing a semi-elite competition would not only give something tangible to support, but provide pathways for players who are not at a higher standard of playing until they are of an older age.
The New South Wales Cup could not provide any significant number of teams, both due to the amount of NRL teams based in Sydney and the higher level of play required when facing Queensland Cup teams.
With the NRL announcing the end of City versus Country Origin (a debate for another page) and replacing it with a Bush Round, playing games as curtain raisers for this round could provide some level of exposure for fans from the town who attend these games.
First of all, you would need to conference the competition. There is no way you could hold a flat tournament without losing large amounts of money and ostracising fans who cannot travel the huge distances.
If a second division were possible, I would consider the following areas for inclusion in the following manner.
NSW Conference
NSW Southern Division
Newtown
Nowra
Bathurst or Orange (or a merged team)
NSW Northern Division
Coffs Harbour
Tamworth
Dubbo
Central Coast
Queensland Conference
Queensland Southern Division
Ipswich
Sunshine Coast
Towoomba
Logan
Queensland Northern Division
Cairns
Mackay
Bundaberg or Rockhampton
There would most likely be a need to allow more Queensland teams, dependent on the level of support. Conferences would play for the New South Wales or Queensland Cup, and then the winners would play each other.
Cross-conference matches would happen during the regular season, but mainly teams would operate inside their conferences, and face division opponents more often.
With two possible omissions, this would allow pathways for outside teams to enter the competition, who have an eye on entering the NRL.
Of course, there are teams included within the list which are seeking inclusion, however I have based the list on my assumption that a second Brisbane team is the most likely inclusion (arguments on this aside).
In order for this to work I would suggest the following.
Number one and most important is that all travel costs are subsidised, especially for the New South Wales and Northern Queensland Divisions.
Funding travel is difficult, especially with the hardships experienced due to income levels in rural areas. If possible, semi-professionalism would be optimum.
Number two, that the competition should be kept away from broadcasters until it is a viable proposition to broadcast on its own merits, most likely via a match of the round.
With an NBN roll-out going into rural areas before metropolitan areas, it is entirely feasible (given the amount of time that it would take to set up such a competition) that a system could be set up to broadcast these games via the net, as per US-based professional sports.
If it was me (and without the benefit of serious professional research) I would make it free for people who are signed on members of a club in the competition, and a minimal cost for people who wish to watch the game live.
Free with larger advertising breaks after a set number of days to anyone who has not paid, which would be good for people with nothing to do during the week.
If you allow people to watch these games at their leisure, you can only assume that people would tune in later in the week with nothing better to do.
Number three would be to separate all of these clubs from NRL teams. NRL players under a set age could be loaned out for a season at the expense of the club which holds their contract, and the player would not be included in any salary cap (not allowed to be recalled under normal circumstances).
This would allow NRL clubs to retain juniors on lengthy contracts in situations where they are having to cut older yet worthy players from their books due to the fear of losing up-and-coming talent.
Transfer fees might be a good idea for players coming off contract or within a set time, or player swaps to stop blatant poaching from NRL clubs.
I believe this system could not only provide pathways for players (especially young forwards and halves who rarely mature until their early to mid twenties) but coaching staff, referees and rural fans.
I am under no illusion about this not operating on a loss for any foreseeable future, but believe it would be of great benefit to the game as a whole, and would basically be paid for by the Independent Commission.
A salary cap would be good, but given the limited payments available, it is unlikely players would move too far chasing payment.
Perhaps it is feasible, perhaps not, but I believe it is definitely worth looking at.
Albert.Watego
Guest
What about NTRL???
Rob9
Guest
I love this idea phil! I just wrote an article on a concept very similar to what you've outlined here. Hasnt gone up yet but id like to get your thoughts when it does. The NRL cant go on maintaining what is for the most part a suburban Sydney league that structured for the 1940s. We must get with the times and some smart business decisions need to be made in order to carve out a future for the game where all clubs are self sufficient and able to stand on their own two feet. The current structure of the league doesnt allow that opportunity for any sydney clubs.
Patrick Angel
Roar Guru
No, what I'm thinking about is a second division, sitting on top of everything but the NRL, almost acting as a "Rural First Grade". I'd like to retain as much of the old rivalries as possible, but stick another level on top.
League_Coach101
Guest
So just to clarify - are we talking about destroying the existing Group club competition that exists in country NSW? In Tamworth for instance there is very strong rivalry between the North Tamworth Bears (100 years old this year) and the West Lions Rugby League Clubs. If only ONE club is based in Tamworth then local competition (and of course all the junior leagues afiliated with those clubs) would just be erased? Not sure if this is what you meant?
Patrick Angel
Roar Guru
Was the Union one rurally based? I think people would turn up purely as there is little entertainment in a lot of rural areas during the day (passive entertainment anyway).
Patrick Angel
Roar Guru
Bathurst and Orange are west along the GWH, but I picked them due to their high population (and future projections) and their close proximity to Sydney and the CC. Picked on economical terms mist of all, and Bathurst generally gets good crowds to watch pub footy.
oikee
Guest
Phil, i read your post and if you get rid of teams, you had better have a city ready to support and follow any new teams, because the game is still recovering from past teams that were left out. The NRL are on the right track, keeping Sydney teams healthy is a must in this day and age, 20 years ago you might have got away with your plan, but now, if any team folds you lose support, not gain support. Unless a team can move, and no new expansion area wants a relocated team, and why should they. Also the brands of our league teams are all good, West Tigers, Cronulla Sunderland Sharks, Parramatta Eels, Penrith Panthers, Sydney Roosters,Manly Warringah Sea Eagles, Brisbane Broncos, North Queensland Cowboys, Canberra Raiders, New Zealand Warriors, Melbourne Storm, St George Illawarra Dragons, Gold Coast Titans, South Sydney Bunnies, Newcastle Knights and Canterbury Bulldogs, all wonderful brands and lets say you added another 2 to that, it is recognisable to fans and a very strong product to league fans, and a growing international audience. So these teams represent our country and names that get recognised around the world when our game gets shown around the world. This is the main reason i was disappointed with the Manly final crowd, people around the world are watching believe it or not. Another reason why i dont like Mnaly's attitude, they are that dinosaurarised that they marketing has no idea what all this bad publicity is not only doing to their brand, but their international outlook. Thank goodness they still have Beaver Menzies flying the flag for them in France.
Phil
Guest
Did you even read my post? I don't know if you followed rugby league before the ARL/NRL came along? The Brisbane Rugby League was basically destroyed by the advent of our so-called "national" competition. Now I'm from NSW (although living in Qld now), but I in no way consider that a desirable outcome. Now we have more and more teams trying to be top-level teams, even though they clearly don't have what it takes to succeed in a professional national football competition. I want to be able to watch my Western Suburbs Magpies who I've followed since the age of 7 versus North Sydney Bears at Campbelltown Stadium live on TV again. I want Cronulla to be able to be competitive in a high level football competition without feeling the pressure to compete with a professional outfit like Brisbane Broncos. I want people in Brisbane to pack grounds to watch games in the local competition again. That is restoring the history of the game to its rightful place, not destroying it. I don't know about you, but I consider it a disgrace that we have only 2 NRL club (Brisbane Broncos & Parramatta Eels) in the top 10 football clubs in Australia. All of the clubs in our highest level competition should be pushing to be in that upper echelon of football clubs.
Will Sinclair
Guest
"NSW Southern Division Newtown Nowra Bathurst or Orange (or a merged team)" Bathurst and Orange are both north west of Sydney. Why are they in the Southern Division? And where is Mudgee? The Dragons are a powerhouse of that region.
Will Sinclair
Guest
So you're proposing destroying all the existing clubs, together with the entire history of the game, and create a whole new set of clubs to compete in a whole new NRL??? Honestly... I have heard some crazy ideas on here, but this one really takes the cake. Truly, world class madness.
Peter T
Guest
Phil, This is one of the best posts I have read on the roar! To me it sounds like a great blueprint for the future.
Johnno
Guest
What about Armidale there right next to Tamowrth but what about Armidale they have produced some great talent up there. There is a university of new england, and Narwan Eels. Good players form up in Armidale some superstars of the game. Dean Widders, Justin Doyle, and another bloke who played for parra but then spent long time in english super league was a half back utility type player, Dennis moran. But NEW england Armidale great talent up there and big indigenous populations and the university of NEW ENGLAND, francis fanifo , and damien smith the bloke who knocked out campo went there to.
Phil
Guest
The biggest mistake in the development of rugby league was the idolisation of the Sydney club premiership (NSW Rugby League) as the premier rugby league football competition. Instead of striving to maintain a strong Qld competition and build strong interstate and South Pacific competitions, franchises from Queensland, New Zealand and Perth strived for the "privilege" of competing in the NSWRL. Changing the name to ARL & then NRL has not changed the fact that the so-called national competition still remains the NSWRL with some interstate (and 1 international) team competing. So now we have strong, professional franchises in Brisbane, Melbourne, New Zealand etc propping up struggling "traditional" clubs in the Sydney "heartland." The Independent Commission, those charged with directing the game forward, need to carefully evaluate their vision for the future. Is our vision to have a top-level competition that is considered THE premier football competition of any code in Australia, that sportspeople of all levels from juniors to professional athletes aspire to play in, that attracts the biggest crowds, draws the most TV viewers, gains the highest sponsorships, attracts the best athletes and pays the highest salaries of any football code in Australia? For that to happen, the top level RL competition needs a fresh start, to establish itself as a separate identity to the old NSWRL. Begin by establishing a strong second-division system with 4 separate competitions. Set in place an equal salary cap and salary floor at a level that allows a good standard of play for all 4 competitions, and include broadcasting of these competitions within their regions in any TV rights deal. Teams in the current Qld Cup that could meet the minimum requirements would be joined by a PNG & NT club. The top regional NSW clubs would be joined by a regional Victoria, ACT, SA & WA team in a country rugby league competition. The old NSWRL would return as a second-division Sydney club comp, with Melbourne and Canberra second-division teams joining. NZ's club competition would be joined by 1 or 2 teams from the South Pacific region. Once this structure is in place, invite applications for12 franchises to participate in the premier football competition in Australia and the South Pacific, the National Rugby League. This competition would have a much higher salary cap, and entrance requirements would include the ability to remain financially viable, meet minimum membership numbers, have a home ground with top level facilities and a minimum capacity of 20,000 etc. Applications for a franchise would need to show direct relationships established with clubs in the second division competition. Traditional clubs would be free to apply for a franchise if they met the eligibility criteria, and could demonstrate that they were able to sustain a club in both the NRL & the NSWRL/CRL/QRL/NZRL. I would see the locations of the initial 12 franchises as looking like: North Qld Brisbane Gold Coast Second Brisbane/South Qld team Northern Regional NSW Southern Regional NSW/ACT Vic WA NZ Sydney Metro Western Sydney 1 Western Sydney 2 Have each team play each other twice throughout the year, and re-jig the representative calendar to include representative opportunities for all regions and countries represented in both the top level and second division. Over time, once the league is ready for it, gradually introduce expansion teams. Each week, this would yield multiple high-drawing matches at the top level, like a Western Sydney derby, Sydney vs either Western Sydney side, Sydney vs Brisbane, Sydney vs either regional NSW team, Sydney vs Melbourne, Melbourne vs Brisbane, Brisbane vs North Qld, Brisbane vs Gold Coast, Perth vs Melbourne, Perth vs Sydney and so on. Having more teams in the second division competing against their traditional rivals would also increase the appeal to both TV audiences and those attending the games. Imagine Friday and Saturday night doubleheaders of a NSWRL game between Sydney Roosters & Western Suburbs Magpies (my team) at 6.30, followed by a NRL game between the Western Sydney & Sydney City NRL teams; or Newcastle vs Illawarra in the NSWRL at Ausgrid Stadium, followed by Newcastle vs Sydney City in the NRL etc etc. While this may not yield a TV rights deal bigger overall than the AFL's, it will produce a deal with more per club than the AFL and with far greater potential for long-term growth than a pointlessly growing top level competition with more and more professional franchises propping up unviable football clubs.
Nathan of Perth
Guest
Any room for the WARL?
oikee
Guest
I already talked about this in a few posts a couple of days ago. This is a brilliant idea, no dought about it, i will explain why, and many would knock the idea down, but the points are, Firstly, it only comes into play at finals time, so during the year we still have all teams playing the normal roster, so nothing changes. Ok, we all got this, nothing changes during the year, tigers play Warriors, Broncos play Roosters, etc. Come finals the top 5 teams in each conference, which when we expand to 18 teams, means 5 teams from 9 in each conference play finals. So only 4 teams in each miss out,.So we have a total of 10 teams playing finals, 5 from each Conference, The conference teams are Sydney based clubs, the other conference is outside Sydney clubs, so nine from each. What this means is 5 Sydnet teams will make the finals, no matter what, and 5 outside Sydney teams. Now this alone would create a buzz, because you could be sitting last at the end of the season, just below 4 other teams who might all be in your conference, not saying it would happen every year, but at least a team at the bottom like we seen this year (Roosters) would still be in with a chance of making the top 5 in that confererence. Anyhow, moving on, so then with each conference, you treat it like a top 5 playoff, after you find the winner of each conference, these 2 teams play the final. Look, it is just a formula to make sure our crowds get bigger, nothing more, their is nothing more embaressing than seeing only 13 thousand turn up to a final. The outside Sydney teams would pack their stadiums anyhow, if they had home advantage, this is a given, and the Sydney conference would always have 2 Sydney teams playing each other during the finals, until the Grand Fianl when the outside winner comes in, you still see the big games all year between every team. Anyhow, most dont like the idea so it would only work if i was running the comp, i would bring it in and not give them a choice, for the good of the game. But our leaders wont do this, they just have not got the guts, it is that simple. The other beauty of this system is 10 teams in the finals is not to many, because it will be 5 teams from outside Sydney, and 5 teams from inside,(it would keep more interested) only during playoffs, anyhow, i waste my time even talking about it, throw it in the bin.
Ksi
Guest
I don't like Guss' conference system at all. It's just his way of making sure a Sydney team makes the grand final. It will also be even more cheaper and less tiring for Sydney teams due to no travel. Who is to say that the top 4 of any of the conferences would even be as good as teams that missed put in the other. No thanks. Better off having 2 divisions with promotion and regulation. -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.
oikee
Guest
With relegation, this would not be a bad idea. Toowoomba has gone back to its roots and now runs the old darling downs comp. The Clydesdales only could survive by being dripfeed as a feeder club. I come through the darling downs comp myself as a kid and loved every minute of it. Then i moved to the big city(Brisbane) and lost interest. This is why we need to protect bush comps.
oikee
Guest
The qld comp Sheek also has programs in place at under 16 and 18. It is relitively new and it covers young guys at the age of 13 up. Plus they have the Foley sheild which has been reborn, (just needs a injection of cash) and they also now have a great bush comp which includes all the schools out west where this year i think Millmerren won the comp against a Bundaburg team. Dont quote me on that, i read it in a mag, but it has made a huge difference for allowing small schools to compete, by joining with other schools in their area. Brilliant idea. Some good ideas getting around now in QLD, we just need nsw to pick up their act on looking after bush teams. Even finding 1 bush player is a bonus to any club, the Broncos found 2 at Blackall, Dave Taylor and Ben Hunt,. So their is players out their, going to waste.
sheek
Guest
I went to my local barber this morning for a shearing, & he mentioned an article by Phil Gould in last Sunday's Sun-Herald. Usually I get both Sunday papers but last weekend just went with the Sunday Telegraph. Anyway, did anyone else read the article about two national conferences I believe - one Sydney based & the other rest of Australia/NZ, each with 9-10 teams? It's obviously based in part on the NFL, & from what my barber was telling me, sounds quite plausible. (Except of course, the rest of Australia/NZ teams would have to do much more traveling. Perhaps the NZ teams can go into the Sydney conference?).
Patrick Angel
Roar Guru
Purely for money saving purposes.