Training the Wallabies in forward play

Uh-oh, how come there's no 'reply' link? Stillmissit, agree Nobody's comments are right. As for Gatland following Dingo, ;) ahh, :) think that would cause a serious bout of uncontrollable nausea right across the country, not meaning to be disrespectful, but considering we've got the coaching talent to fill the position/s, the home-nurtured product is preferred for mine. Looking forward to seeing how M.Foley goes with NSW in 2012. (Michael Cheka, the Randwick fellow, who seemed quite promising at one stage, whatever happened to him?) As for the ABs taking the game more seriously than us, their provincial rugby was and probably still remains better run than ours, i guess, but we're fast catching up, and at the national level thinking back to the early 1980s when Dwyer was coach, followed by A.Jones, then Macqueen, Steady Eddie, Connolly, all these coaches took it very dead seriously, and the results prove it. Jeznez: "Now if we can get Farr-Jones or Poido to take over the Waratahs board then we’d be getting the game in shape." It would be good to see these two you've mentioned more involved. Certainly gets my vote. Off topic, to you both, what a relief to see the 3N expanded to 4N, regardless what they're calling it... just hope the Argies don't squander the opportunity.

Macqueen and Link as chairman and coach sits very well with me. Now if we can get Farr-Jones or Poido to take over the Waratahs board then we'd be getting the game in shape.

I am surprised that you have not seen this idea. The genius whose idea it is mentions it on every 'wallaby forwards are the problem' thread he reads. You are the first to respond to the suggestion at all. Have not yet had a response at all let alone a positive one. The logic is this. Australia have a point of weakness - forward dominance in scrum, breakdown, maul, ruck, counter ruck Australian fans (like myself years ago) often don't even know the names of our forwards The way to strengthen a chronic weakness is not with band aids and guesses. The way to do it is with massive action, with a decision and an investment that reduces the chance of failure. Tight five play needs to be Prioritised Populated (with as many suitable body types in the country as possible) Promoted (with media exposure) Televised (glamourised AMAP) We have to make this part of rugby which is ironically the part that is non league, non afl and non soccer : -Visible - Intelligible to an audience - Desirable to participants and fans. A televised comp similar to 'OZ greatest athlete' or 'gladiators'where any kid or club tight five in the country can take on the S15 and wallaby stars could discover and develop a lot of talent. And create a point of difference with other codes, whilst making piggies sexy. Okay maybe that's pushing it but this 'forward' problem could be helped with a bit of 'old traveling wrestling tent' exposure.

"They’d be seriously shooting themselves in the foot if Sharpe isn’t included in the touring squad." I agree 100%

Mike: "Stillmissit’s article was focused more on the training of our forwards, rather than on selection. I agree with him – even the best selection policy will not be enough to fix the problems. 'We need to rethink our attitude to training of forwards at all levels'." Spot on. It's a huge issue that needs to be addressed because without the platform our backs are totally neutralised. Re Vicks, i don't know, i've always appreciated Sharpe more, even in the 'controlled aggression' stakes. Let's see what happens on this Spring Tour, who gets the nod to start, who's on the bench. They'd be seriously shooting themselves in the foot if Sharpe isn't included in the touring squad. Cheers. jeznez: "Kanaar was the Waratah we lost to injury." That's him. He had the goods, the ticker. ----------------- The reason this is posted up here is the two replies below have no 'reply' link... must be my PC, bit off colour lately. tighthead_mm: "Personally i thought the decision to drop Sharpe for Simmons on the grounds that he was more ‘mobile’ were a bit short sighted. Sharpe's leadership, aggressiveness and experience could very well have given the push needed." Yep, agreed. My choice though would've been Sharpe starting, with Vicks on the bench, or Simmons. Cheers.

:) Yes conceded, initially i was in the ‘McQueen fell into the greatest bunch of rugby players this country has ever seen’ category, but after reading Greeg's auto-b, that all changed; he lives and breathes for the Wallabies so would be ideal. That said, so probably would be Connolly, though the screams of disapproval are audible already, though truly i'm not sure why. :( No, i'd go Macqueen. He could do wonders for us at the helm for 4 years, if not 6, or even 8. Let's put it to a referendum, as Papandreou is about to, though now he's differing because of that Commie goose Barroso, who's never done an honest day's work in his life. ----------------------- The other critical part to the equation is who inherits the coaching reins at the conclusion of 2013, should Deans last the distance that is. I know you're not a McKenzie fan, but for mine with the right people around him, as he has at the Qld Reds, he has to get the gig, and he'll certainly do a decent job, but i know we beg to differ. Cheers.

Kanaar was the Waratah we lost to injury

I've got a mate who is a talent scout/trainer for an Australian Super Rugby Academy. His job is to go around and look at youngsters, assess them, invite them to join the academy if they are suitable and then physically train them to get their bodies up to super rugby level. I do not believe he does any actual rugby coaching just physical training. His selection criteria when picking kids is not neccessarily to get the best rugby player in the team but instead looking for the kid who has the right body - looking for size, skill, athleticism, fitness, pace and above all durability. Beyond all the biometric tests he does on the kids he has a whole lot of questions for the parents on family history and a set of tests he puts them through trying to find guys who genetically have an edge. I believe this is fairly standard in how most juniors are scouted with the belief that if they have the attributes they can be taught to play rugby later. May give a little insight into why the Wallabies are so poor at rugby basics....

;)

Reaelly sorry about the preceding post, somehow its been doubled. Feel free to delete.

Joeb, "Vickerman’s strength for mine seems to be his lineout jumping, but it ends there" I doubt you will find many observers who are prepared to agree with you on that. Still, as I wrote above, we can agree to disagree. We will also have to disagree about Simmons and whether he has shown he "has the goods" to play at test level. Whatever, Stillmissit's article was focused more on the training of our forwards, rather than on selection. I agree with him – even the best selection policy will not be enough to fix the problems. We need to rethink our attitude to training of forwards at all levels. "When you mention Bakkies, crikey, he was rightly banned for throwing his dead weight into rucks with the sole intention of injuring/maiming opponents." Yes, what does that have to do with my point?Joeb, "Vickerman’s strength for mine seems to be his lineout jumping, but it ends there" I doubt you will find many observers who are prepared to agree with you on that. Still, as I wrote above, we can agree to disagree. We will also have to disagree about Simmons and whether he has shown he "has the goods" to play at test level. Whatever, Stillmissit's article was focused more on the training of our forwards, rather than on selection. I agree with that – even the best selection policy will not be enough to fix the problems. We need to rethink our attitude to training of forwards at all levels. "When you mention Bakkies, crikey, he was rightly banned for throwing his dead weight into rucks with the sole intention of injuring/maiming opponents." Yes, something Vickerman has not been accused of. So how is it relevant?

Agree 100%. And yes, the Bled should be contested over 3 games each year. It'll be interesting when J O'Neill steps aside after the Lions 2013 tour. I'd like to see Macqueen take his place.

Vickerman's strength for mine seems to be his lineout jumping, but it ends there. When you mention Bakkies, crikey, he was rightly banned for throwing his dead weight into rucks with the sole intention of injuring/maiming opponents. Anyway, Sharpe is nearing retirement age, so Simmons now needs to step up to the plate, and he's got the goods, but needs a decent back-up. In recent years we've lost quite a few promising second rowers, one from the Western Force who had to return to Brissie to run the family business, then there was the Sydney Uni/Waratah who's knees gave out, Al, forget his surname. These players would've had an impact in the Gold jumper for us.

I largely agree. Sharpe's workload and the ground he made proved that he should be in the side. Vickermans performance against the springboks also earned his place in the side. Horwill was one of the 3 players that made more than 20 tackles in the game against SA. Personally i thought the decision to drop Sharpe for Simmons on the grounds that he was more 'mobile' were a bit short sighted. Sharpes leadership, aggressiveness and experience could very well have given the push needed

We will have to agree to disagree on that one, joeb. I see it in the reverse (but I still have a lot of respect for Sharpe, let me add). I agree that Sharpe may be more correct in his carry technique (as he is in a lot of areas), but not markedly so. Vickerman by contrast brings top-level controlled aggression and determination to the side. He brings what Brad Thorn brings to the All Blacks, or Bakkies Botha to the Boks. He is an enforcer and we sorely need him. Sharpe is pretty aggressive too, but not to the Bakkies/Thorn level. That doesn't mean Sharpe should be out of the side – its madness to drop a player of his skill and experience imo. But Vickerman is essential to start, as is Horwill (for different reasons). So if everyone is fully fit my selection would be Horwill and Vickerman at 4 and 5, and Sharpe on the bench. I see no need to bring in anyone new while these three are still fit and committed. If Horwill or Vicks are injured, I would replace them with Sharpe, and only then bring in a young gun like Dennis or Timani to take the bench spot. Experience and aggression rule.

"In the same way, you rightly praise Brad Thorne’s and Jerome Kaino’s pride in their scrummaging, but those chaps are also very good at the breakdown, in defence, and 'taking the ball up'." This is why Sharpe should've been picked ahead of Vicks. Sharpe carries the ball up far superiorly to the prodigal son, umm, meaning the Cambridge grad, imho. ;)

Great article here Stillmissit. Right on the money! Back it 110%. In the semi vs the ABs we were outmuscled, marginally, but that's all it takes. But then look at how we went in the Bronze decider vs Wales with a completely new front row, second row, (apart from Horwill), and Higginbotham playing something like 2/3rds or 3/4ers of the game for us, even though it's obvious he's tremendous value off the bench for us as an impact player, particularly in the second half. Yes I was surprised we dominated a usually very strong, powerful and dominant Wales pack in the 3rd-place game, even though their prop Johnson and captain weren't on the paddock, so the return encounter in Cardiff this Nov should be an absolute beauty. (We now need to concentrate on going through this upcoming British Isles tour undefeated. We have to demand consistency from the Wallabies from here to 2015. Fitzpatrick, Sean, was right; too much emphasis on RWCs. Time now to defend the TN, and reclaim the Bledisloe.) In the final vs the ABs must say the French forwards impressed something awesome. If we had've been in the final it's doubtful to my mind we could've contained them, considering it's rare to see - in the first part of the 2nd half particularly - an All Blacks forward pack out-muscled, dominated and marched backwards as Les Bleus brilliantly managed, and if the ABs had've been pinged for some obvious infringements that Joubert was incredibly lenient with, the outcome may well have been different and there would have been pandemonium on the Avenue des Champs-Élysées, considering their long history in rugby union, quote: Rugby was introduced to France in 1872 by English merchants and students.[1] On 26 February 1890, a French rugby team recruited from the Janson Desailly Lyceum defeated an international team at the Bois de Boulogne. [2] Although France were represented at the 1900 Summer Olympics,[3] their first official test match did not take place till New Year's Day, 1906 against the New Zealand All Blacks in Paris.[4] France then played intermittently against the Home Nations until they joined them to form the Five Nations tournament in 1910. In 1913 France faced South Africa's Springboks for the first time; losing 38–5.[5] France also competed at the 1920 and 1924 Summer Olympics, and on both occasions lost to the United States in the gold medal match, Vicky LeDonne scored the winning goal.[3] France were ejected from the Five Nations in 1932 after being accused of professionalism in the French leagues at a time when rugby union was strictly amateur.[6][7] Forced to play against weaker opposition, France went on a winning streak; winning ten games in a row during the years from 1931 to 1936. This is still a record even today.[8] France was invited to rejoin the Five Nations in 1939 but did not compete until 1947 as international rugby was suspended during World War II.[7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_rugby_union_team