Stay or go? Preferred destinations of NRL players

@grandmaster, dont think jamal left for the (clown who probably never played football in his life)who had a few choice words to say......he left to be closer to the beach life and to get out the rat race of city life by the sounds of it.The money , this sport is a business to some whether we like it or not.Its there lively hood for the short life span it has.

so jamal comes out with this he was threatend by a over zealous fan to stay with the dogs thats why he left the dogs not the $550k that the titans threw at him thats just a load of BS thats it a lot of players do his like peter wallace who plays for brisbane now wrote in a rugby league magazine that in his last year with penrith was taxing & a waste of time seeing that he was headed to the broncos next yr & admitted to not giving 100% when he could not get plays his way these players are duds as people & are bitter towards there previous clubs for some reason but they wont admit they left for more $$$$$$ but in the case of jamal idris he is noting but a sook.

You know your stuff Rob9. What rugby league needs more than anything else right now is money. Without money it cannot fund grassroots development. The AFL is throwings is money at children who cannot afford to play rugby league. Only way to counter this is by evening the playing field so that disadvantaged children born in rugby league heartland areas can play the game they truly love. A stronger NSW Cup would probably gain some money from broadcast rights. If it did then that money could go towards grassroots football. The NRL and QLD Cup/NSW Cup could work out a deal so that Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night and Monday night belong to the NRL teams, with no QLD Cup/NSW Cup games played at those times. The Queensland Cup and NSW Cup could schedule all of their games on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. The networks only want the NRL to be played at prime time, so I think they'd be happy with this deal. To rationalise costs, I'd suggest scheduling a few double headers in the QLD Cup and NSW Cup so that fans get good value for money if they choose to go to the games. This will also cut back the costs that come with broadcasting a match on television. This leaves enough room for the smaller networks and Foxtel to invest in the QLD Cup and NSW Cup. I'd imagine Foxtel would be keen to get exclusive rights to the QLD Cup and NSW Cup. Especially the NSW Cup. Ten needs content to make OneHD profitable. The Queensland Cup and NSW Cup could provide them the content they need-- and at a low cost -- to help the network improve is multichannels' ratings. If there is no NRL on when the state competitions are in action then I can see fans tuning in to watch both of them. The Queensland Cup rates pretty well up here each Saturday afternoon. There are days when the Queensland Cup outrates the AFL in Brisbane. A good way of holding the AFL at bay is by building up strong second-tier competitions that can more than match the AFL's best product in Brisbane and Sydney. If the NRL can go to the networks and say "our second-tier competitions can provide you better value for money in Brisbane and Sydney than the AFL can" then I'd imagine some of the poorer networks might give the AFL a wide berth. The less networks that are competing for the AFL rights means the less money the AFL will get. All of this matters when it comes to funding the grassroots game.

Ken, Souths and Saints might have a lot of casual supporters, but tthey don't have enough dedicated supporters to keep the team in the black. Neither team can grow their respective fanbases in Sydney. Their gate keepings will always be below par as long as they're only gettting 12,000 to 18,000 fans to their games. I think history needs to be taken into consideration before we make blanket statements such as "culling all 9 times is suicide". Rugby league in Queensland became stronger when the Broncos were introduced into the NSWRL. The BRL was no longer a viable business for top-flight sporting teams, but it strengthened rugby league in QLD because it set up a link between grassroots football and the elite competition. Queensland is head and shoulders above NSW when it comes to producing talent because it has a good grassroots system that allows juniors to progress to the top flight. The Queensland Cup is infinitely stronger than the NSW Cup. The Queensland Cup has produced more NRL stars than any other second-tier competition in Australia. If something isn't done at the grassroots level in NSW then I cannot see NSW bridging the gap between itself and Queensland at the elite level. You cannot produce a regular supply of quality halfbacks, five-eighthes and hookers when they're coming through a second-rate grassroots system that doesn't prime them for first-grade. Do as you like. If you want NSW's best rugby league years to remain behind them then keep the competition the way it is. seeing a NSW club like Manly win when their best players are from QLD and NZ might make you happy, but it doesn't do anything for NSW rugby league at the grassroots level and elite level. Queensland will continue to flog NSW to the point that origin will no longer be the money-making machine that it is today. Can the game survive without origin?

Danny(and actually a union man) is also a good mate of Mundine, Khoder Nasser,SBW and the entourage,which says little.Unless Willie can get an NRL contract which appears highly unlikely,he will be picking tomatoes in nthn NSW.Probably about the only time,he would get to put in a full hearted effort.

One final thing regarding the placement of teams in the Gong and on the CC. As I alluded to before, the growth in these places alone should ensure they have significant roles in Rugby League’s elite competition regardless of the structure.

Toulon? Im loving Willie's latest escapades. he just gets more and more pathetic. His old mate danny weilder gives him a good run on sun-herald.

Have to agree to disagree on this one Ken. Completely agree a dual competition is the last thing we’d want to see but I don’t think it’d come to this. With the bulk of the money from sponsorship, telecast deals etc lying with the NRL (as the national competition), the best players that everyone wants to see and that are involved in origin would still come out of the clubs involved in the National League. A revamped state league involving the Sydney suburban clubs would operate on the second tier alongside the Q-Cup and act as a feeder competition to the NRL. The QRL has been happy to assume this position in Rugby League without its clubs competing against the Broncos or the Titans as alternatives. In Rob’s perfect world, I’d picture Sydney RL fans getting on board with one of the new franchises depending on their location while still maintaining a keen interest in their suburban team at the NSW Cup level. Re: the clubs on the north and south coasts, I do see your point. I’m at the other end of the city and time considered I’d probably just be able to get to a game in the Gong in as much time as it would take me to get to the SFS. At the end of the day it would come down to personal preferences and it would be up to the CC and Gong based clubs to make moves into those areas so people could feel more affiliated towards them. Personally if such a proposal were ever to see the light of day, despite the time it would take to get to the SFS I’d feel more aligned to a team based in coastal Sydney than one based in Wollongong. That said I know plenty of people down here in ‘God’s country’ who are pretty anti anything over the Captain Cook Bridge and would feel more comfortable with a team based on the South Coast. I’d imagine the great harbour divide might see a few northerners go the other way too.

Thanks for the reply Rob9, you've obviously put a lot of thought into this. Personally I still don't see it, I think you're more likely to get a boycott of the NRL with fans going to the NSWRL. We'd have to be very careful that we didn't create a new dual comp scenario - that wouldn't benefit anyone. The only other area I'd comment on is the idea that Northern and Southern Sydney fans will identify with CC and Gong teams. I'm keen to see the Bears back in the comp via CC but, as someone who lives 5 mins from the start of the F3, I've never been able to buy the idea that Northern Sydney people will flock to Gosford (unless they were previous Bears fans). Distance is a factor, it doesn't take more than 20mins to get to ANZ from almost all the big population centres in the North apart from the beaches, and they've already got Manly - so 40mins out of town on a 6 lane freeway (+the infamous F3 traffic snarl = no Friday night games for Sydney fans) makes it an altogether different proposition.

Sorry, just noticed an error- that hypothetical Dragons v Eels game would be played a Kogarah of course...

Thanks for your comment Ken. It’s a real pickle and the solution to the problem is the biggest catch 22 going around in sport. But make no mistake the health of the 9 Sydney based clubs is in real strife. 9 out of 9 bleeding money with the majority of them just hanging on by the skin of their teeth. Why do you think the noise from the clubs was so great when there was talk of an increased grant coming down from the NRL? Take for example Manly, Sydney’s most successful club in recent years including a GF win in 11’. They have a monopoly on the north side of the harbour yet still posted a $1 million loss this year. It doesn’t paint a good picture for the rest of the Sydney based clubs if even Manly can’t get it right under the current conditions. All in all some changes to the effect that I’ve suggested above need to be made. I admit with change comes risk and if DG happened to read my post today and decided to take it on board it might not work. But the biggest risk the NRL could take is sitting on their hands and doing nothing at all. Dropping one or two clubs isn’t going to have the desired effect either. I know many people who were fans of the Bears. The real sort who went to games and bought merchandise. Money they spent went directly to the club. Now their interest in Rugby League extends to watching the odd Friday night or Sunday arvo game while still getting involved in the Origin hype. Why is this? Because they don’t have a team to support. Why don’t they have a team to support? Because there is no club playing in the NRL that represents them anymore. They grew up hating Manly and all other Sydney based clubs (but especially their neighbours Manly) so why on earth would they suddenly attach themselves to another club. The same would go for me if my Sharks were moved or dropped. I have no interest in supporting a team based on the other side of the continent and I’m not going to suddenly become a Dragons, Roosters or Rabbitohs fan. I love Rugby League so I’d still follow it, but not one club would get me in their colours, get my membership or take my money at the gate because none of the remaining teams represent me. Relocating or dropping clubs isolates fans completely. It doesn’t provide these fans with a viable option for them to attach their allegiances’ to. A new team that they haven’t grown up hating and that represents them geographically is a different storey. In your post you have stated that I’ve suggested ‘wiping out’ these Sydney based clubs. Unless you’re talking about the ‘patch work’ merges from the late 90’s, this is simply not the case. Try telling the Redcliffe Dolphins and Ipswich Jets that they were ‘wiped out’ when the Broncos were created. What I’m simply suggesting is that NSW mirrors the successful structure that has been created in QLD. A very important part of my proposal is these clubs living on and carrying on their proud traditions in a stronger NSW Cup. It was from within such a structure that they built these traditions until the late 80’s when the League started to look beyond the state borders. It was back then that a true NATIONAL league should have been created to avoid the mess of a situation that we’re left with now. With the considerably lower costs these clubs would have, the Leagues clubs would come back to the fold again, these clubs could become more connected with their communities and most importantly their lower expenditures ensures that they all have a realistic chance of survival. Our National League being born out of the NSWRL has meant that the Q-Cup has become recognised as Australian Rugby League’s second tier because NSW’s ‘suburban’ clubs are still operating at the National level which is an unsustainable situation. If the NRL can get serious about moving away from a structure that lends itself to the 1950’s then the Sharks, Roosters, Bulldogs etc do still have an important place in Rugby League. Just not at the National level. And if the idea was a complete flop after giving it adequate time to catch on with the public then these Sydney clubs would still be there with their stadiums to be re-inserted back into the League and we can all sit down and scratch our noodles about what to do next. I still argue it won’t come to this but the point is the clubs won’t vanish. With regards to the ‘credibility’ of two new franchises. I think this line is a cop out from the traditionalists who are afraid to think outside the box. You have to start somewhere to build traditions and bringing in the clubs I’ve suggested provides a model that has the potential to succeed at this while actually generating income. Creating the north, south, east, west divides means people can actually get attached to a club that represents them geographically and they can still remain part of a tribe, just a bigger (and more profitable- remember this is professional sport we’re talking about) tribe than before. From this, new traditions can be born and great rivalries can develop. Instead of 15,000 watching the Rabbitohs v Roosters at a cavernous ANZ, when the west and east franchises meet we can expect to pack out the entire stadium over time. Even if each club could secure 10,000 spectators from each of the clubs that were represented in the NRL before, there’d be at least 40,000 attending each Sydney home game creating a far superior product for fans and the networks (again remember professional sport). Obviously the draw would be structured to ensure one of the two Sydney based teams would be playing at home each week to maximise attendances. Another key element to the proposal would be the suburban clubs affiliating with one of the new teams to help strengthen the fans bonds to their National franchise. It may involve just simple initiatives such as ferrying passengers from a local game (Dragons vs Eels in the new NSWRL at Brookvale on a Saturday arvo) or the Leagues club to ANZ or the SFS to watch their national franchise play. With regards to the CC and Illawarra teams, as I said these clubs could taken in more than just the population from the immediate surroundings. The Central Coast has a population of around 300,000 but up to another 500,000 in Sydney’s northern reaches may find it easier support and travel to a location just north of the cities metro limits. For Illawarra I’d suggest their fan base could come from a pool of around 600,000 people. You can take their position in the Dragons merger with a grain of salt, you don’t have to be Einstein to work out who’s getting the spiky end of the pineapple under that arrangement. Currently with 9 teams representing 4.5 million people, in a perfect world you’re looking at 1 team per 500,000. Although 600,000 and 800,000 aren’t huge increases on the current team to people ratio in Sydney, they’re far enough away from the SFS and ANZ and located in big enough Rugby League heartlands to warrant their own teams. And even more importantly, Gosford and the Gong are booming as more people check out of the madness of Sydney and look for a quieter lifestyle on the coast. A presence in these areas is vital moving forward. Looking at the big picture there would be a lot of work involved with such a move. No doubt such a restructure wouldn’t please everyone. There isn’t a single option on the table that has a realistic goal of achieving financial success for all clubs that is going to keep everyone happy. I understand for some people if their club isn’t there they don’t want to be a part of it. But at least under this model they can still follow their club in a strong state league (as many Brisbane RL fans have done for over 2 decades) and should they choose to support the game at the elite level a team exists in the NRL that represents them geographically that their team hasn’t previously gone into battle against. I wouldn’t expect to win over every single Sydney NRL fan initially. But in a city of 4.5 million people (with a greater population of just over 5 million), I think it’s reasonable to suggest that two clubs within the metropolitan boundaries and one to the immediate north and south respectively can gain good support and become financially secure and eventually successful (a prime goal for all professional sporting organisations).

You've obviously thought about the problem but your solution seems haphazard. You're going to wipe out 9 clubs, some of which are the best supported in the comp, and replace them with 2 manufactured Sydney 'franchises' that will have serious credibility problems - it's suicide. It doesn't really imply huge security shoring up that move by reinstating a dedicated Wollongong side (which currently exists as the perennially broke half of the Dragons merger) and a new CC team, which has a good business plan but is always going to fight against a small population (far less than 1/9 of Sydney's by the way). Everything isn't sweet and rosy right now but I suspect your solution would end up worse than the problem

Feel better? Was that the chip from the left or right shoulder? There is no argument that the club representation is skewed towards Sydney beyond the ideal - you ruin your argument though with paranoia and exaggeration. Sydney is the Australian birthplace of the game, the city that the NRL grew out of and the city where majority of the money that that keeps the game going and growing comes from - it's not exactly as irrelevant as you make out. Also some of those 'tiny' Sydney clubs, like Souths and Saints, have more members and sell more merchandise than your mighty Broncos - not to mention a depth of history that they (despite an undeniably impressive first 20 years) simply can't match. Your suggestions for culling all current Sydney teams and starting again would, with no exaggeration, be the end of Rugby League as one of the 2 big boppers of Australian sport. It would decimate the supporters and not just in Sydney, I'm up in your fair state quite often having married a Queenslander and I know a number of diehard supporters of teams other than the Broncos. RL would go from competing with the AFL for top billing to just being happy to have a professional league a la the A-League and whatever the they've done with the Big Bash this year. Maybe there's a case for dropping 1 or 2 teams from Sydney over the next decade, although it's complex and still a huge call. It took a decade for the medicine (loss of Norths, Souths and the mergers) taken over the first SL attempt to be overcome - surely we can try to learn some lessons.

Spot on QGIRL. The broncos model is what all teams should be aspiring towards and with Sydney's pie being divided up 9 times none of these teams could ever dream of achieving Brisbane's level of off field success ie. being in the black would be a good start. The situation in Sydney isn't sustainable and something has to change. My idea, de-merge the merged clubs and put these 11 suburban teams in the NSW Cup where they should be (like the Brisbane Q-Cup sides are). Not being burdened with the costs of being involved at the elite NATIONAL level will ensure the long term survival of all of these clubs. A stronger NSW Cup is much needed and provides these clubs with a relevent platform to exist from. People can harp on about tradition but how are merges, relocations and dropping teams altogether supporting tradition. Putting these suburban teams in a more localised league (which is what they were concieved into in 1908) ensures that thier (own) traditions live on. I would much prefer to see my beloved sharks play in a strong state league rather than being moved, merged or wiped off the rl map. Then at the elite level in and around Sydney- a team in the east playing out of the SFS, a team in the west playing out of ANZ, a Central Coast side that can also attract fans from outter north Sydney and an Illawarra side doing the same for those fans in Sydney's southern reaches. Being north, south, east and west they're relevent to fans by building strong geographic links to their region (important for Sydney fans). Best of all, all fans get to see their suburban team in a strong state league with a new team (that they havent previously loathed) to represent them at the national level, leaving no fan isolated. This is a much more sustainable model with 4 NRL teams as opposed to 9 operating within greater Sydney. Qld did it in the late 80's when the Broncos came in and they're now the benchmark for sporting clubs in Australia. Its now time for NSW to catch up and give league fans the healthy and financially stable clubs that we deserve.

The issue is most of the Sydney clubs believe that first grade in their suburban game should be the national comp. With the clubs involved with the IC it there will be plenty of pro Sydney decisions though it's only a matter of time before they turn on each other and we see another super league. -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.

Reading this article gave me the impression that the author thinks that Sydney is the capital of rugby league and that the Sydney clubs are victims of the big bad Broncos and Storm. Sydney is not the home of rugby league. The sport was played in Auckland before it reached Sydney. Huddersfield is the real home of rugby league. Brisbane and Ipswich are the home of Australian rugby league. Rugby league is infinitely more popular in Queensland than it is in NSW. On a per capita basis, Queensland has a higher participation rate. The problems the Sydney clubs are experiencing are a result of them refusing to embrace an everchanging world. There's no way a truly professional sporting league can support 9 clubs that are located in a city that has only 5 million people. The 9 clubs are tiny and have no room to grow because each one of them is limited to having no more than 1, 2 or 3 small LGAs to themselves. How on Earth can they compete against an interstate team that represents the largest LGA in Australia and 3 other LGAs that are bigger than most of the ones in Sydney? The Sydney clubs and their fans are holding the game back. Their clubs will always be basketcases and the sport will never dominate the Australian landscape as long as their Sydney-centric demands are given priority over the good of the game. Their Sydney-centric demands are the reason the super league concept failed. If they had have accepted Murdoch's plan back in 1995 then the game's profile in Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth would be far larger than it is today. Rugby league would have overtaken the AFL years ago and there would be no GWS or GC Suns. Getting rid of the 9 Sydney teams and replacing them with 3 or 4 brand new teams -- geographically positioned to represent the entire Sydney area -- would boost the game in Sydney. Older fans from rival clubs would be able to co-exist supporting the one club because there's no history between it and the old clubs. The game would grow because the people from the Sydney LGAs that aren't repsrented by the 9 Sydney teams in the NRL would finally have a team to support. The older fans who still wish to support their old NSWRFL team can go watch them play in the NSW Cup -- just like the fans of the old BRL teams do each weekend in the Queensland Cup. The Broncos have been successful since day one because they were smart enough to change with the times. They knew the old suburban BRL was never going to turn over a huge profit in a truly professional era. They knew the answer was to hold a monopoly over a large rugby league heartland. Being the biggest team in town allowed them to succeed on and off the field.

Bennett is a canny bugger. He knows that there is decent season or two left in Tahu and "Bennett" is the man restore Tahu to the form we were accustomed to when he was last in rep colours. Tahu will be a crowd favourite by mid-season.

Nice article. Hopefully Jamal Idris can help the Titans do well next year. The NRL needs a strong GC team "As Sydney is the home of rugby league that is where most players stay or return to." Yes, in terms of the number of clubs.But if there was another Brisbane or Central QLD team I think there would be alot of talented QLD players putting there hand up to return to the sunshine state.