USA Rugby’s 64,102 reasons to celebrate plus a few more.

Cheers wcr. Great news. You got some links for us. I note that is more then the a league franchises!

WCR put this on one of the more recent articles like some of the rugby one's today it will get more deserved feedback. This is greatness for rugby in the USA.

Rugby is played at a different time in the year to NFL so many people may choose rugby as their second sport. The US sporting public is fairly mature and often support more than one sport at a time. I'm sure no expects Rugby to be anywhere near as popular as Football.

With out the NZRU, many P.I people would have the opportunity to have the lives they live

@ Terry.Sevens will never over take over the 15s game due to the fact that its not a full game. Meaning that the only way to give fans the critical mass that they require for them to fork out the money to come to the game is to have a circuit type competition. This means that in a season there is only the potential really for one "home" game a year. This means that there is very little opportunity for fans to truly engage with any team. The only way sevens comps get support is as a secondary support from people who enjoy rugby in general, support a15s team that has an associate sevens side or an institution that is associated with team like the US colleges. There will never be die hard 7's supporters Personally I don't like sevens, I feel it lacks the variety that is offered by a 15s game. But because I am a loyal Springbok supporter I will watch the boks 7s. 7's however is important to the development of rugby globally but will reach a critical mass where it is popularity will plateau. You seem bitter towards NZRU and that's your agenda but the only way forward for Rugby union to be a truly global sport is through 15's

..without the pacific islanders the all blacks would be no better than Scotland..

nz has five fully professional super rugby franchises and a semi-pro npc..none of the p.is have that..the cards are always in favour of nz, nzru and sanza..

Rob9 - We don't care about baseball in Japan, Hockey in Russia or Basketball in Europe because we believe we have the best competition in the world for those sports right here in the U.S. The same can be said for soccer. Sure soccer fans watch the MLS but they watch European soccer leagues with just as much passion if not more so. I know tons of people here who watch that European stuff religiously. Now I'm not syaing I think a US based SR team would work here because I think unless we would play in a conference with other American, Japanese and Canadian teams, the travel would be way too much and hard for fans to follow for away games. And if we played in a North American/Japanese only conference it wouldnt bring in as many fans. But we are creating a domestic professional rugby union from what I've heard. They are supposed to be announcing something in the next couple of months. From what I hear it will have the core of its teams based on the western half of the U.S. with a few teams up in Canada as well. Its not much, but its a start. The more guys we can get playing the game full-time the better the Eagles will get.

Mate i really like where you are going with this. There are a number countries on teh precipice of rugby going big. USA, Russia, Georgia, Romania. But these countries need the support of Tier 1 nations. I agree 2025 (note 10 years earlier) i reckon at least Russia and or Georgia will be right up there. The most important thing to note is the culture of these countries and that will indicate their appitite for rugby. Russia, USA, Georgia all aggressive and therefore strong rugby candidates. Where i am going is look at some (not all) of the leading soccer (and i wil NEVER calll it footbal) nations. France Italy, Brazil, all what do you call them, flamboutant? nations. So i reckon Rugby could get further traction, as you have stated especially with 7s rugby....

Yeah a statement like .... ' Remember the RWC 2011 game of NZ vs Tonga. Coach Henry packed his team especially with Samoans and a few Fijians and a Tongan (and only a few Europeans and Maoris) and instructed them to physically batter our Tongan brothers. Remember that game? Yes it was the flesh, bones and blood of our P.Is who rescued NZRU and their precious All Blacks and saved them from the traditionally fearsome physical onslaught of the Tongan team. The Tongans no doubt, were further incensed by the higher than usual Islander content of the All Black team that day.' .... Is a measured well thought out analysis - give me a break

Thanks for the debate p.tah. Regardless of the path US rugby administrators take lets just hope it leads to the game reaching it's full potential there. It'd be great to see another superpower enter the fray.

Anopinion, You mention the American Rugby public at the outset but then go on to suggest that 'Yanks love rugby'... I didnt know that a 'Yank' is now only confind to an American rugby fan. Bud all I can do is respond to the words you type and by the way you're carrying on in you're original post you're making out as is if rugby in the US is bigger than Ben Hur. But thanks for all your helpful clarifications along the way. The fact remains that the American rugby public is not huge. They represent a fraction of the entire population at the moment. They may actually match the numbers of Rugby fans in Australia but instead of being concerntrated in 2 states in a country on 23 million people they're disperssed across a country of over 300 million people. Yes im aware of the heartlands in Colorado, Utah and Nth Cali but these still wouldnt stack up to 4 of the 5 oz franchise areas and certainly wouldnt justify being a base for their own franchise. It sounds as if you've spent some time in the land of the free as a rugby fan so Id expect you to understand that it's a real niche sport that operates a fair way from the sporting spotlight. My experience is that US rugby fans are just as passionate about their rugby as those from every other place on earth that has been touched by rugby. For them it wouldnt matter if it were the Utah Warriors v San Fran Golden Gate or the 'LA Earthquakes' v the QLD Reds, the current rugby fans are going to get involved. It's the 300 odd million people that havent caught the rugby bug yet that we need to be speaking to. For the reasons ive listed above, an American based SR franchise would have a limited impact in achieving the goal of reaching more Americans. In short, it's hard to engage new fans in a competition based half a world away and these funds are better served creating a fully professional domestic league that's created and maintained only to meet USA rugby's best interests.

Rob you make some very good points but we'll have to disagree. Who knows what rugby USA will do?

So three separate pacific islanders write on the roar saying pretty much the same thing about the influence of NZ rugby and your response is 'rubbish'. I don't live in the Samoa, Tonga or Fiji so have no opinion on this, but when someone from one of those countries writes about the problems they face, I think they deserve to heard. So don't ask me to ask about the ARU policy, ask the guys who are directly affected what they think.

Hi Rob 9, Good of you to reply without reading my post using a literate mind. I did not say every bar in the USA, I was referring to the Irish, English bars and sports bars. Many a time I have met up with large groups in packed pubs at 8am to watch games. Aspen, New York, New Jersey, Atlanta and Chicago to name a few. I clearly state that I am referring to the American Rugby Public, I never mentioned the "Average American". Super Rugby is the arguably the best tournament in the World that does not involve international sides. If the Yanks get a team in this competition, (careful not to make you think I mean every single one of them including the President) they will support it to a degree that is, as I said before, huge.

That's great and all mandrinislnd but that's up to the players isn't it? You could point out that it's unfair 'pillaging' since the PI are not as 'rich' as NZ but really NZ in turn is PI compared to the rest of the world. Jonah Lomu commented on the Tonga vs NZ game and what did he say? That he rooted for NZ despite being of Tongan descent, maybe he's biased because he was an All Black but the way I see it is that NZ helps PI's in every non-rugby thing so ranting that NZRFU are evil etc is so unfair. PI's aren't a super race... those who are playing for the All Blacks got there not by just their god-given genes but because of their own committment AND due to the help of the NZRFU so they can help them achieve THEIR own dreams, Just think if NZ didn't recruit any PI's....which people will probably cry about too.... where would Nonu, Kaino be now? There's only so much they can do...but if you think Samoa is so great.... I'm just so annoyed by these rants and that twitter idiot supoulu whatever saying shit about NZ when it's totally mutually beneficial. Like really? It's not like NZ gets ships and force islanders to join the All Blacks at gunpoint. These boys lived in NZ most of their lives or at least equal parts and they were taught and helped and have had their talent nurtured... I'm not sure what some of you want??? I feel it's for everyone to know that Samoa is the best so you can feel superior?? Like maybe rename the NZ all blacks to the Somoan All blacks and basically take all the fame but none of the work to get there??? And what about the work of non-Islanders? Dan Carter? Richie Mccaw? They did nothing?? I was born elsewhere but at five moved to NZ and consider myself a kiwi.... are you really gonna deprived those who are playing for the All Blacks of that after the better chance of life NZ gave them and their families??? Like seriously? Oh and this is funny "They are easier to coach to be aggressive because they have a warrior attitude" I'm not trying to be racist--this from personal experience--but...that's a really great euphemism there. All and all...just....don't be so prideful of something an individual/race hasn't achieved yet.... I know this will come off as ranty and probably unfair/gibberish but I'm too tired and lazy to clean it up.

Rubbish it's a rant that makes very little, if any, sense .... If you want to delve into a policy of attempting to lure players to play for a different country - why not make make a comment on the ARU foreign legibility clause for their SR sides

Agree with Terry “we’re happy given all the crap sanza and the nzru dishes out to the pacific islands.” and disagree with Mace 22 there. NZRU never gives details of how for the last 18 years, a growing number of P.Is students from Tonga, Fiji and Samoa are actively recruited through rugby or “sports” scholarships by NZ colleges and High Schools to bolster their First 15 teams. They started grabbing P.Is players in the late 1970s and 1980s onwards when high school rugby teams from the islands toured and played Auckland school teams. That’s the story of earlier Samoan All Black stars like John Schuster. It now totals over 60 students annually. Its greatly unfair to the Pacific Islands because they are essentially the cream of high school student rugby. Our Samoan Under 20 rugby teams for years are selected from a pool of less than a thousand players - those who are not selected to NZ schools – and who are students and young farmers from rural villages. Question is why don’t NZ high schools particularly in Auckland, go to Wairarapa Bush or somewhere in rural NZ and recruit European and Maori kids for their rugby programs? The answer became obvious when NZRU and their All Black coach Mitchell selected his team from only European and Maori players. Remember that debacle? What happened? The All Blacks got beaten! Coach Mitchell then had to eat humble pie and bring in the obvious stand out P.Is and Samoan players of that time – Tana Umaga, Jerry Collins, Mils Muliaina, etc. Then the All Blacks started winning! Succeeding coach Graham Henry already knew P.Is players very well. He was in the middle of that Auckland high school rugby system that actively sought and recruited P.Is players resident in Auckland suburbs and particularly from the Islands. Look closely at any of Henry’s All Black teams that ran onto the field. They all had a healthy mix of Pacific Islanders and always anywhere from 4 to 8 players of Samoan descent. Under pressure earlier in his career from NZRU he selected P.Is players for one or few games just to brand them as “All Blacks” and make them unavailable to Pacific Island teams of Tonga, Samoa and Fiji. Story of Samoan All Blacks Waikato’s Sosene Anesi, Canterbury’s Casey Laulala, and other Tongan All Black such as Sione Lauaki and Fijian Waikato All Black, etc. That Gordon Tietjens NZ 7s squad you just saw in the IRB Vegas USA 7s comprised 96% Polynesian Islanders – Fijians, Samoans, Tongans, Cook Islanders, etc. Probably only Tim Mickelson and one other are European. Sure P.Is immigrant population in NZ should contribute to NZ rugby - that’s fine because they are living there now and Aotearoa NZ is their adopted country. The trouble is that the proud NZRU continually refuses to fully and officially acknowledge P.Is contribution to NZ rugby. Also their 7s and All Blacks program cynically bolsters their team with Pacific Islanders as if they are Uncle Toms, whenever they play against the national teams of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga. This is why when the national Fijian and Samoa 7s teams play NZ, they aggressively rip into them because Tietjens will deliberately pack his team up with 96% Samoans, Tongans and Fijians as if to taunt them. For the last 3 years the Australia RU’s 7s team seem to be getting into the act and many P.Is have been selected into their 7s program and recently comprised about 70% of their Vegas squad. Remember the RWC 2011 game of NZ vs Tonga. Coach Henry packed his team especially with Samoans and a few Fijians and a Tongan (and only a few Europeans and Maoris) and instructed them to physically batter our Tongan brothers. Remember that game? Yes it was the flesh, bones and blood of our P.Is who rescued NZRU and their precious All Blacks and saved them from the traditionally fearsome physical onslaught of the Tongan team. The Tongans no doubt, were further incensed by the higher than usual Islander content of the All Black team that day. When the Island rugby unions particularly the Samoa RU calls for national player trials, the NZRU are aghast at how extremely patriotic Samoan New Zealanders are though they maybe second or third generation immigrant New Zealanders. So the SANZAR would never agree to have a Samoan or Pacific Island team in Super 14 or 15 because it will attract NZ’s resident P.Is population to Samoan, Fijian and Tongan national teams. Instead SANZAR had to agree to NZRU and bring in NZ colts or Aussie colts to play in the Pacific Nations Cup to keep the P.Is going into their adopted country’s (NZ) rugby programs. Manu Samoa capped players resident in NZ always have to go overseas to Europe to find clubs to play for because NZRU makes it extremely difficult for Super 14 and NPC coaches to pick them for their teams over “other” New Zealand players eligible for the All Blacks. On the other hand also the NZRU will encourage their provinces and Super sides to use all economic means to entice and commit P.Is players to play for them. Mind you NZRU officials annually visits the Islands, makes great media statements about how - from the goodness of its heart (sic) - NZRU wants to develop Island rugby, gives a few rugby balls and some token equipment then leaves their shores with smug looks. Incredibly the All Blacks have never played in Samoa and Tonga and never had a test against Fiji! Yet the Lions toured Fiji and Wales, Ireland, France all toured Tonga, Samoa and Fiji. What does NZRU and All Black coaches Mitchell, Henry and 7s coach Tietjens know that not many sports people know? That Polynesians from Tonga, Samoa and Fiji are ideally suited to play the contact sport of rugby and rugby league. They also physically mature at an early age. It is not racism. It is just reality. For each year of rugby and league recruitment in NZ, the NZRU sees that Polynesian kids are coming in bigger, faster and stronger. They are easier to coach to be aggressive because they have a warrior attitude. Mind you the NFL already know all of that with the large number of Samoans and Tongans in their ranks. So the NZRU has a lot to thank their NZ immigrant population from the Pacific Islands and also the players from the isle of Samoa, Tonga and Fiji. When the Pacific Islander hand stops giving the NZ All Blacks and 7s team goes to the dogs and would never be No.1 anymore. Now that’s anathema to NZRU and they will use any means fair and foul to get the P.Is.

I don't get the full point here? It's quite clear, even from your own post, that the NZRU and the Auckland high schools pay the Pacific Island players who move to NZ. They also pay more for players that are eligible for the All Blacks and try to ensure that of the 150 pro players in NZ Super Rugby that most are NZers. As for some of the other comments, a lot comes across as a rant. Especially when specifics like the AB's team who faced Tonga in the World Cup only contained 5 players of Pacific Island heritage in the entire 22. That is SBW, Nonu, Toeava, Vito and Kaino. Either way it all comes back to merit and mutual benefit. If you're good, regardless of whether it's as a schoolboy or a pro, then people with money will want your signature. The NZRU faces the same issue losing players like Thomas Waldrom or Jared Payne to the UK. Players are always trying to earn more and play at the highest level. And the clubs and unions who pay them want the best players they can afford. If that is Pacific Island boys them good on them for using their god given talent to earn a career.