Before the World Cup, Paddy O’Brien was on record saying there will be changes to the laws pertaining to the scrum after the showcase international tournament. The subsequent silence does not look good.
What I believe most knowledgeable rugby fans, coaches and players want is to return to the days when the scrum feed started the contest.
The introduction of the ‘hit’, which has then gone on to require the crouch-touch-pause-engage call, has proven to be counter to the spirit of the game.
These two aimless changes have caused endless front row collapses and tedious resets and the most difficult part of the game to explain to casual watchers.
Requiring front rowers to make milli-second binds on tight guerseys is difficult, completely unnecessary and puts needless focus on this set piece which leaves many wondering who is actually running this particular asylum.
With the changing of the guard at the IRB board reducing the influence of the English, the opportunity to apply commonsense is upon us.
It is time to revert to the days when front rows combined when ready and smart halfbacks used whatever opportunity presented itself to secure an advantage.
In those days scrummaging was a contest run by the players and refs were only heard when somebody screwed up or threatened to… as is every other phase of the game.
I better add that this only applies at senior level, scrum protection is of course vital for the juniors but the important issue is that the even there the ref must be mostly silent and let the players compete.
fort wayne shane
Guest
How can we have the hooker in support of his props instead of being a weight baring pressure point(battering ram) ? How can we disperse that undue pressure across the front row ? How can we give the hooker the option to operate freely underneath his locks or raise his rear bumper to engage them if he prefers ? How can we take some pressure off the tight heads ? Answer: All hookers take the under bind
mitzter
Guest
But if you can push over a try from 10 out why can't you from 11??
Crashy
Guest
Thanks Jeznez - will have a look at what you have sent me. The amateur era still haunts me clearly......
jeznez
Roar Guru
Weekes did look good against Daley - given my opinion of Daley that isn't saying a lot. My recording of the match broke down at the 60 minute mark so I didn't see the last twenty but it looked like things were evening up once Holmes came on in his rightful LHP position. The biggest worry seems to be Slipper who doesn't appear to be as strong as he was two years ago, he had a sub-par international season last year and doesn't look to be finding form. If he wants to be an international tighthead then he needs to be destroying players of the calibre of Henderson - just wasn't happening.
sixo_clock
Roar Guru
Good points all Jez, however we have to strive to achieve scrummaging which is brief, safe, a contest and a pleasure to watch for even the uninitiated. Resets allowable only when footing is slippery even though it is not beyond comprehension to ask of the forwards to acknowledge the ground conditions and react accordingly. That doesn't imply 'no contest' scrummaging in the wet but it does mean that their mindset is to get the scrum working in any conditions 'without preconditions'. P.Tah mentioned above an upcoming announcement from the IRB so fingers crossed. PS: did you see the (Mighty) Rebels scrummaging last night, awesome turnaround.
jeznez
Roar Guru
Where you and I disagree is that you think the hit "has escalated to a point that it is devaluing the game". I do not believe that the laws or the hit are dramatically different today compared to 1999, which is a point in time we did not have the current issues. I think scrums can be as good under the current laws as they used to be. The key is for Aussie front rows to step up to the mark and be competitive again. This is an Australian problem. Go watch the Chiefs v Crusaders match from last night, with the steps the Chiefs have taken this year with the inclusion of their new young tighthead Tameifuna - we had a great contest between a scrum that has historically been a whipping boy of Super rugby and the scrum that was rated last year as the best. I suspect if you poll SA on the scrums in their local derbies and check with NH fans on the state of scrums in the 6Ns that you won't find complaints either. The laws do not need to change - we just need more competitive efforts from Australia. The Force despite their loss last night were the dominant scrum, The Waratahs with their first choice available are strong, I expect the Brumbies to improve this year if Palmer can stay fit. For the Reds and Rebels they have some work to do. To look at your last point although my playing days started at tighthead and are finishing there, most of my rugby from 17-26 yrs of age was as an openside. So I feel very well equipped to talk about front rowers and the breakdown. I played the game completely differently between 7 and 3 conserving energy in general play so I could exert it at the set piece and vice versa in the other role. I like that rugby has both types of player and I expect very different things from my tight five compared to the back row. I certainly don't want more homogenisation of the pack. Daley is excellent in the loose but not at scrum, he is not my prototype prop - I much prefer Palmer who is a scrummaging rock even if that detracts from his general field play. Daley in my opinion should convert to hooker where his efforts around the park can still occur and his scrummaging flaws will be less exposed.
sixo_clock
Roar Guru
Which has probably brought us back to the beginning Jez. Players are given free reign to compete within the Laws. If they fail in some aspect the cause must be deliberate and penalties will flow. Particularly so in the case of scrums which deteriorate before the ball is fed. The intent of both front rows has to be to bind, get their heads into the right spots, take the pressure, establish their stance and wait for the feed. The 'hit' is not in any way a vital part of that process and it has escalated to a point where it is devaluing the game. The call is to rein in the bulls but only until the feed and then you are free to drive your opponents skulls through as many of their sphincters as can be managed. To gild the lily could I offer something in return. A front rowers build is ideal for ruck pilfering, pick and drives etc. Their Rugby energy/focus would be more usefully spent scoring close tries and making life very very difficult for opposing halfbacks.
matthew
Guest
Paddy O'Brien has been an absolute horror in his postion. He quickly switched the implantation of the superb offensively inclined "daylight" law in 2008 Super Rugby. Every season there seems to be a pointless law change with interprations varying at a referees whim. He hasn't got a clue what works- and when it does work (2008) he switches it the very next year. Infuriating. Yes, the scrum is a complete farce at the moment, but the achiles heel of rugby is the interpration of the breakdown. Paddy Out!
AJ
Guest
When was the last time a team was penalised for pushing early,before the ball had been put in?I think that's still a rule.
Atawhai Drive
Guest
That was the dark side of good old-fashioned rucking, CW . . . Good old-fashioned bleeding. And that's why we won't see rucking again any time soon.
jeznez
Guest
Crashy, I tried writing you a detailed reply explaining why I think what you have been taught is wrong with a web-link to a technical scrummaging site backing me up. The mods have the post awaiting moderation. I suggest you talk to a few more coaches, other props and seek more advice.
King of the Gorgonites
Roar Guru
allows push over tries............ which i love.
jeznez
Guest
Crashy, what you have been taught is putting you in danger mate. I've overstated a little above by saying head back, the official line is head in a good neutral position and chin up. You are aiming to keep your spine straight. If your head comes forward and chin down then your whole spine is in danger of bending forward. In a collapse if the top of your head hits the deck, your chin hits your chest and the weight from behind comes through then that is where you are in danger of snapping your neck. Have a look at at picture 4 on this link - if that is what you have been taught to do then you'll see that it is being quoted here as a dangerous position. http://www.smacrugby.com/coaches/scrumformation.pdf
Avid rugby fan
Roar Rookie
I agree that the scrums this season are much better, but I think Paddy O'Brien needs to work on the scrums, because if we could speed them up it would help the game alot.
Crashy
Guest
I'm a loosehead and was taught in a collapse to point your chin hard into your chest. Now I'm confused....
jeznez
Roar Guru
On a serious note the key to safety is training. Minimising collapses and ensuring your players have learnt that in a collapse they have to stick their head back and chin out and be prepared to get a mouthful of dirt. The natural instinct is to curl up in danger which is the worst thing you can do. You need to practice safety drills until they replace your natural instinct and you automatically put your head/neck into the safer position.
jeznez
Roar Guru
because evil looseheads use it to gain unfair advantage over us poor innocent tightheads
Atawhai Drive
Roar Guru
Jeznez, it's great to read your despatches from the coalface of the front-row. Only those who've been there know what it's really like, I'm sure. And unlike me, you've been there.
Campbell Watts
Guest
I watched that Brumbies-Hurricanes replay the other day also AD What a cracker! Certainly the scrums were less of a stoppage of play in those days - they just got there and got on with it. Was good to see the "use of the boots" again too - when Kaf was turned the wrong way and wouldn't let it go he got some none-to-gentle encouragement! Not sure about targeting the head though! That would be a red card these days not just a penalty!
mitzter
Guest
AndySm - I don't quite have the same interpretation of those laws as you do. The law says 'remains stationary' NOT 'as soon as it is stationary''. It also states that a scrum CAN begin to move again if done so immediately. I would expect referees would take a similar interpretation as mauls in this situation.