The same old mistakes, but why FFA have got it right

jb It's interesting to read how other countries are also having major issues with getting their young players to have adequate 1st team appearances. Football Italia writes: "Since taking over as Coach of the Italy Under-21 team, Ciro Ferrara has more than once lamented that most of his players are Serie B-based, whilst Napoli President Aurelio De Laurentiis has recently been critical of his own team’s lack of faith in its younger squad members." Napoli, who thrilled us with their football in this year's UCL, have not fielded a single player this season, who was born after 1990! Juventus, who are currently top of Serie A, and - barring a catastrophic collapse in the final rounds - will be playing UCL next season, have only fielded 1 player this, who was born after 1990. Lazio (currently 3rd in Serie A) also have only fielded 1 youngster all season! Source: http://www.football-italia.net/17547/serie-a%E2%80%99s-attitude-towards-youth

Fuss. Can't say no to anything in your formulae. Cheers jb

jb I think it would be very useful to stipulate a certain minimum u20 AUS players in every HAL match-day squad & on the park. Perhaps, increase the bench to 4 outfield players plus a GK and have a "2 plus 2 minimum" u20 requirement for HAL match-day squads - i.e. 2 x u20 AUS players must be on the pitch at all times (which means there must be 2 extra u20 on the bench) ? Immediately we'd have at least 20 up to a maximum of 40 Aussie teenagers getting HAL exposure every week.

Fuss, Funny to see these figures in print. Why???? Back in 1980, at a time when the NSL was just up and running, I was the director of football at an NSL club and ,believe this if you want ,we had an unwritten law at the club that stated,where possible, every team going on the field had to have at least 3 young local boys PLAYING,not in the squad,but actually on the field.. As an example, when the team won the national cup in Canberra the team consisted of 6 overseas born players,and 5 born locally, while every substitute used, (3), was an Australian under the age of 22. Nice to see these figures now mandatory but would like to see them taken a step further and not use the word "squad" but have it apply to the "playing" staff on match day.Cheers jb

*6,000 years ago was the belief but anyway.

@Mick Wilson, just saying but the earth is 4.6 billion years old, that is the world mate! not to mention indigenous australians have been dated as far back as 40,000 years ago. as far as that i would say you dont know your stuff and leave it to the pressionals.

Well. It was somewhere in that region. :D

jb 1. re: 23 man squad - refer to my reply to Nathan of Perth 2. Money talks - IF enough money were available - theoretically, a rational player would sell his/her goods/services to the highest purchaser. We see this with a player of Samuel Eto'o's reputation moving to unfashionable Anzhi Makhachkala. Additionally, we've seen Henry move to MLS, Treseguet to River Plate, Anelka to Shanghai Shenhua, Lucas & Bresc have moved to the UAE, etc. etc. Of course, the money is not there right now and that's why I said, we need to work on the demand side.

I'm pretty sure MVFC had 23 players in their squad - and that's the upper limit; I think GCU started the season with a smaller squad. The additional 8 players would be: a) 3 x u20 players, which is the current mandatory minimum; and b) 5 o/s plus 1 (Asian player), which is the current maximum quota

Fuss----after the demise of 3 HAL clubs I wouldn't believe anything that Frank Lowy had to say on anything that concerned Australian Football. I can now understand why the very talented John O'Neill left the FFA to go back to ARU..

Closer to seven/eight teams. After all, each of our teams has about 25~27 players on the roster.

Fuss. Just a few things to point out in your offering . Going back a few years,pre- HAL, there were over 300 young Australians plying their trade overseas but that figure,like yours, can be a little mis-leading for are you not assuming that many of these players,might I say playing in leagues no better than out HAL,could be co-erced into coming back to play in the HAL, or conversely would our top teams want them?. Let's look at the top of the talent standard,could Neill,Schwartzer,Grella,Bresciano,Herd ,Coe,and all those playing in the top two leagues in England,or Holland,or Germany, or Denmark (I won't go on for you will get my drift) be co-erced to come back,and then there is the other end of the scale where youngsters connected to promising academies in these countries may not want to come back until they finally exhaust their chances of making the "big time" wherever they are. By the way HAL squads usually consist of 23 players so Alistairs figure would supply 8 HAL squads and I think if you consider what I have just spelled out, that figure could almost be at least halved if not quartered, so the supply side is not as lucrative as Alistair's figures,or your thoughts would suggest, but I totally endorse your comment on the " demand side" jb

Alistair Edwards, who is the FFA's National Assistant Technical Director & u17 National Team Coach of Australia has just informed us that there are 189 Aussie pro-footballers working in 37 countries outside ANZ. That's the equivalent of another 13 HAL teams (15 players per match day squad) currently playing overseas. There's no problem with the supply side of the HAL market ... just need to work on the demand side.

No I have not suggested that you not believe every thing the FFA has said on this issue is not true, and I dont prefer that you accept my word. Rather I am saying the FFA are giving mixed messages and I dont believe what they say. You can believe what you like. Some believe the world was made 4000 years ago,That is their right. I believe the geology and science that there were various types of humanoid walking around 13000 years ago. I dont know what the FFA is forfeiting in $$ I wish I knew. However on television yesterday the A league chairman said that they had been offerred $$ but chose not to take them since they wanted to get it right. I believe it is more complicated. After all the papers were saying they were negotiating with Tony Sage and Clive Palmer says they were trying to tap him for $5M. Anyway I would not expect the FFA to reveal that sort of confidential information. Yes I do watch West Brom on Foxtel in the middle of the night. No I am not a season ticket holder, and I am not in England enought to see my team very often. Yes, Jeremy Price is a good chairman, Albion without middle east money has managed to run without debt. My financial investments are variable, I am a Nanotechnologist, thats where I use my brain. I am too old to marry your daughter so you dont need to have more detail. The FFA claim on TV yesterday they have a business model.I think it should be released, they are spending tax payers money. I certainly dont but I have done some crowd modelling based on UWS data which I got as an Executive Dean when I was an Academic. Its important to know if students will do courses if they are only on one site and whether they will travel round campuses. A bum on seat is money to a subject. The same applies if football supporters will go to a ground far from their home. Campbelltown to Penrith or Homebush or Parramata etc. There are no KPIs therefore but its pretty easy to think that its financial viability, and CCM and Wellington have said thats 8500-10000 crowd not withstanding a substantial sponsor or a sugar Daddy like Clive Palmer. You dont need to be a Professor to also work out that if the WS crowd is not just to be stolen from CCM or SFC it will need to come from Olympic, Eagles, Croatia and the other state clubs, so very important is to get these on side, and even then may of these supporters may also be involved already with S FC so its no certainty. Victory managed to get many teams like South Melbourne involved and Heart have done the same but the 6000 Heart crowds are not viable. I dont think WS can get more than this. So if I were starting this team I would make sure I have all these clubs in the bag, colours etc are important. Do the FFA - who knows but they would be really stupid if they had not done this. I would also model travel for it can be the movement that inhibits a Penrith supporter to go to the Sydney Football Ground, but also a Campelltown person to go to Parramatta. So all I can say is "Fussball ist unser leben" for some but not for me, its a hobby. I have not seen the German Movie of the same name but I can recommmend United b**y United on Leeds United. It also stars the great west brom manager Johnny Giles. Take care

You forgot to mention where the money was coming from so that each of these teams has around $6,000,000 per year to cover the cost of competing Australia/NZ wide. Otherwise go for it.

Good to see Footscray JUST mentioned. My father would take me down to play junior football at Schindler reserve - have some medals rattling around in the wardrobe gathering dust. Little did I know that it was preordained years ago that I would be a MHT member! :)

QsAF Having a drink at the Precinct Hotel, before the pre-Christmas Melbourne Derby, I met blokes - all wearing MVFC gear - who had previously been supporters of Hellas, Preston Makedonia, Brunswick Juventus; and even a bloke who said he used to attend Footscray JUST. Anecdotal evidence says that MHT has quite a few Melbourne Croatia & Hellas supporters.

Mick Wilson Let's see if I understand this correctly ... You suggest we should not believe anything the FFA has said on this issue and prefer that we accept your word as the truth? In previous posts - and again today - you've mentioned you will not provide financial support to the new HAL club, but (in several previous posts) will continue to provide financial support to EPL team, West Bromwich Albion. Since you raised the issue, I'd like to know - what sort of financial support is the FFA forfeiting? Is your current financial commitment to WBA a sponsorship deal? Or, are you a Season Ticket holder? Or, is your financial commitment to WBA simply an annual Foxtel subscription that allows you to watch The Baggies in the middle of the night, when you're living in Australia? Finally, since you're so keen on "Business modelling to validate the new team" will you kindly share the benchmarks/KPIs that your Business Model requires for a successful West Sydney team.

kostako - Your offering makes excellent reading and should encourage much debate. I would add slightly to one of your observations and that is your theoretical analysis as to why the HAL was started in the first place. While the obvious reasons were as you suggest I honestly believe Frank Lowy had a far bigger agenda than to just create a stable, well managed, organisation from the wreck left by Soccer Australia. I honestly believe Lowy's driving force was, while creating a truly full time professional football league,the organisation and management plan would be to lift the standards in our game,both on and off the field ,to a new level,somewhere approaching that of the major countries in the world with the exceptions of the top 5 or 6 countries where finance is needed to break the nexus. Has this been achieved? For a 7 year life span I think the HAL is well down the road in supplying raw talent from the field of play which,with continued good coaching and perhaps further injection of cash,whether through investment or media rights,will achieve the targets envisaged in Lowy's mind 7 years ago. Back to the the "off " field shenanigans.I cannot but believe there are forces behind the scenes that are twisting Lowy's arm to alter his master plan . Originally he foresaw an 8 team "super" league but after the 5 year moratorium suddenly the plan is altered with devastating results.That is the concerning factor worrying football thinkers all over the country at this point in time.Decisions that can only be described as "hasty" are being made and I for one refuse to believe a man who has overseen the building of super shopping centres all around the world, no doubt going through the normal management steps taking them from vacant land to super store completion, can honestly believe he can take such shortcuts in planning,organising and controlling a new franchise in 4 months. So although we hope with all our hearts that it will succeed ,Brendan Schwab's words "it cannot happen again" , take on a rather threatening warning to the progress already made.jb

Yes FFA have got it right-- 10 teams versus 9. Nine teams would kill the game. Dont expect big crowds though and really Campbelltown is closer alligned to Wollongong. The North West is relatively rich and sees through the FFA incompetence. I think they wont change support from S FC and CCM. Penrith Bankstown and wth Blacktown might produce additional fans not already sown up with the other teams SFC and CCM perhap 6000. I do my modelling on old UWS data. The FFA have to change their board and possibly senior staff to recapture the thinking public. A lot could be done by allowing Canberra NQL and GCU and Tas or Wool Wolves/South Coast in. However now the savings are spent on WS it is difficult and too big a finacial risk without making these teams semi prof.. I find the statement on TV that they had industrial sponsors for WS but chose against them so the WS job would be done right difficult to believe especially since they asked Palmer for $5M. They have said they have done the business modelling including crowds. Releasing this rather than hiding it would also help. However the FFA are as secretive as perhaps the KGB.I would also like to see the failed business models for NQF, NZK and GCU. Without evidence of otherwise Sydney regional support wont lift by enough, industrial potential partnners like myself would not touch the FFA and with the money now spent WS, S FC and CCM will struggle. No reason FFA now cant tap the Libs though once Ms Gillard has gone, especially in Qld.