Blues hurt by 'low life' comments

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/our-experts/6760632/Chiefs-proving-the-Blues-race-theory-wrong

http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/05/30/are-the-crusaders-selective-about-recruiting-islanders/

Wait just a second, I speak under correction but in the article spiro infers that the guy who suggested this was some sort of visionary and that those who refered to the policy as rascist were morons. If I am wrong I will gladly apologise, but I don't think I am. Please may one of you post a link if you can?

Thanks for clearing that up. It did sound unlikely that Spiro would write something like that.

True that - I once had a highly educated asian engineer tell me that only white people can be racist. But isn't smaller a synonym for inferior in that context? Interesting one on Ali calling Frazier a gorilla. You could make a very good case for that being a physical comparison for a big man with a reach that exceeded his height, especially when any racist overtone would equally apply to the person making the comment. Similar to a comment I heard suggested during the Symonds row - when a bloke with dreads who paints his mouth white is called a monkey, anyone interpreting it as racist might be better served by examining the connections and generalisations being made in their heads. Unless the statement is that all people of that race share that characteristic, it is abuse rather than racism. Calling someone a c*** is not racist, but saying that is a racial characteristic or attaching it to a colour is. It would be racist to say that all white people are racist.

'Physically inferior' wasn't what the coach was saying. He simply meant that they were physically smaller. The Japanese rugby team would probably lose by alot more if they didn't have a few non-Japanese in the team. In the case of what people have said about Pat Lam and his team, it has to be taken in the context of historical racism towards Maoris and Islanders in NZ.... About 'positive racism', it's like Aboriginal players in Aussie Rules, people say they have 'magic' skills and don't train hard, or don't need to train hard. This, I think, is what you are referring to as 'positive racism', but it seems to me to be just racist mystical mumbo-jumbo, and Aboriginal players such as Adam Goodes have said as much.... But, before someone labels me 'politically correct', it's not only whites who are racist, obviously! I read somewhere that Ali called Joe Frazier a 'gorilla'. This is racist too, even though both are african-americans... Also, my adult South American english students are really racist towards asian students, and a Turkish student refused to sit next to a Pakistani student the other day, so there you go!

So saying someone is physically inferior because of their race is not racist, but mentally inferior is? It is always a grey area, because it involves imputing a motivation - maybe (but probably not) some of the comments were intended to imply that the big lads at the Blues relied too heavily on their natural gifts and didn't do the hard yards to become the best they could be. But the dictionary definition is "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races". There is a great deal of 'positive' racism that is implicitly (and even explicitly) accepted in society today, but every coin has two sides.

Actually the article (by Spiro) was in response to comments/rumiurs that emerged about the Crusaders which suggested there was an unwritten philosophy or whatever you want to call it that the halves are always white and that the "best" Kiwi teams have white tight fives and halves and Islander/Maori back rows and three quarter lines. From memory Spiro was certainly not advocating it or agreeing with it - simply reported the comments/rumours, whatever you want to call them.

AndyS, you want to know the difference? The comment about your nephew's club is simply relating what the speaker sees as a physical fact - that fact that (if it's teenagers we're talking about), a team with islanders is going to be bigger than a team without. It's probably wrong anyway, but it's not racist. The comments about Pat Lam and his team imply that Maoris and Islanders do not have the grey matter to win games; that they need a few more whites around them to provide the brains. This is obviously racist. Remember, you have to look at who is saying what to whom, and what is being implied...

That seems a pretty serious allegation toward a rugby writer. I think you'd better be prepared to provide a link to that article if you're going to make an allegation like that because it seems highly unlikely to me.

No time for attacks on Pat Lam or anyone but, just playing devils advocate, how is it any different from my nephew's club being told that their first team doesn't have enough islanders to be competitive?

Onor and others, It IS racist saying there are 'too many cuzzie bros in the team' In this specific case, it's probably not the words that offend, but the implication.... If someone was to blame poor South Sydney Rabbitohs performances on there being 'too many blackfellas' in the team, would you not consider this racist? Just because NZ has pretty good race relations (considerably better than Aust, for example...), doesn't mean there isn't any racism!

Or Samoa or Tonga when they beat the Wallabies...

Have a large number of Maori/Polynesian players didn't seem to hinder the Blues when they won their three Super titles, or the Kiwis when they won 3N and RLWC. Warriors two grand finals, Junior Warriors defending champs, etc etc.

Pat has been a school teacher like Graham Henry so its not a communication problem some off those players need a good kick up the backside and be responsable in helping Kevie because its starting take toll on him as well racial abuse is unacceptable in any form so to the red necks & the faceless foe grow up rugby can not tolarate your garbage and the New Zealand public wont stand for it. KIA KAHA Pat !!

I havent read any racist remarks on social media about pacific islanders on the blues.....maybe its around somewhere if you look hard enough for it i guess. Racist remarks aside the Blues are in trouble and the coach cant blame some stupid remarks and BS and act like there effecting him, if some ridiculous remarks are effecting him then he shouldn't be in that position. Any professional should be above pity remarks. I hate racist of any kind but the team needs to step up pakeha, maori and pacific islanders and work together. Henry has got involved he made the Auckland team a huge success when he was head coach with plenty of Islanders and maori players so that proves that race is not the issue now or ever will be. With Henry involved he will uncover the truth and expose the weak links whether that be individual players or coaching staff or both. We will expect to see some dramatic changes.

So it is agreed racial abuse is not welcome at all from all races whether polynesian/maori or european etc. That is cool now lets get on with the rugby because once again the media I have looked at hasn't been able to prove whether the abuse was from european/polynesian or maori and the agreement is none is acceptable.

Sir Graham to the rescue surely this will give the Blues some confidence http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/6732292/Pat-Lam-safe-at-Blues-Graham-Henry-to-aid

Isn't this a mainstream view in New Zealand, last year Spiro wrote a whole article how you can't have to moaris playing in decision making posititions on a rugby field. That's not verbatim but it's basically what was implied.

As a New Zealander with a maori mother and European Father I completely disagree with the thinking that there are too many bro's in the Blues. New Zealand was built on Maori rugby and the style they played gave us a national identity. Pat is doing a great job he's just brought into the Hurricanes dream of having too many All Blacks who are not prepared to play ball. The Hurricanes are now on the rise and the blues have been saddled with the same infighting problems which plagued the hurricanes last year. It's the players attitudes towards new ideas and training. In the All Blacks they would be dropped for upsetting the coach in the blues, like the hurricanes before them, they are being tolirated This is the problem with the blues as i see it