An answer to Sydney NRL crowd problems?

Some simple facts Michael re football and cricket indicative of the disparity in representation. Last cricket test v India, 7 NSWmen, 1 Victorian. (actually the final test may have ahd no Vics, they were injured) Of the 450 players to represent the socceroos 50% have come from Western Sydney alone. It is actually pretty shocking how the Vics obsession with AFL affects outcomes in other sports.

What an outlandish statement. The non-AFL states contribute more to the representative scene? In the rugby's - yes, of course. That's their chosen sport as Aussie Rules is to the rest. No suprises there. In swimming? Yes, that's a population and climate thing. But as for cricket and football, i'd say that's far more a political thing than a talented Sydney thing. And as for more AFL players coming from Qld/NSW than vice versa, i'm not too sure I would use this as a bragging point. This just further highlights the national presence of AFL. Finally, on your most embarassing statement than AFL fans have no interest in any other sport, well that's just laughable. You have ovviously never been to Melbourne during the olympics, rugby and football world cups, Australian open, Cricket tests etc. i would say Perth and Adelaide would be the same. The fact is, these places love their sport, all of it, and yes AFL is number 1, but don't let your disapointment that Sydney isn't as in love with Rugby League, Nay sport in general cloud your judgement.

On reading the article on Sydney crowd problems I am impressed by the thought put into the exercise by the writer and tend to agree with them wholeheartedly , we have certainly got to improve the attendances at matches and this looks to be one way to approach the problem in a most positive and objective way . I can see benefits for the outlying areas as well , the only thing that I can see that needs to happen perhaps more quickly is expansion , maybe sooner than later . Go the NRL and let's make it national for real . Like it .

JV, I don't think anyone "jumped in and went crazy"...but people will make an attempt to print real facts in the face of others who just post parochial anti-AFL tripe (though it's always entertaining so keep it up). And Link, no-one's suggesting the is AFL 3rd in the world for all sports...just 3rd in the world for football competitions...as the above link shows.

It looks as though you took a few P's as you were typing your retort. Steady up on the caffeine - it's a known diuretic. Alternatively - vacuum up the chip crumbs that are stuck in your keyboard, and fetch me a flat white !

Well exactly Link. AFL crowds (in 3 cities near Antartctica) are great, but who cares, it is simply not relevant to the rest of the world in general, or Sydney in particular. As you say NRL should average 20-25,000 within a few years and the AFL teams in those NRL area may be able to manage that as well. That seems to be way things are trending.

Anyway this thread is about improving NRL crowds, not comparing them to AFL's. Even if the NRL gets to a 20k average (very achieveable in the next 5-10 years) it will still be below the AFL's but would still be a great result. Australian Rules - AFL's crowds are great but are not 3rd in the world for all sports. US College Football is mentioned in Wiki but not in that list. Also NASCAR and F1 average crowds are above AFL's.

IW, your obsession with copying the AFL is absurd and pointless. They are different games in different places. You continually poke fun at the ARU and treat the AFL like they are some bunch of geniuses. Just have a look at what the AFL marketing department has done to itself in Sydney, they haven't just blown one of their feet off with the Swans they have created a whole club without a body which is nothing more than the decapitated head a ranting Sheedy. There is blood everywhere and itis getting ugly and noone will even admit it yet alone come up with a plan to stop the bleeding. Absolute genius at work. The ARU seems to be doing well with the Rebels and maybe you should just let the ARLC get on with working out it's own solutions IW.

If you look at my original comment AR, the point was that NRL crowds are not really a problem, they are at historical highs for average attendance. I merely pointed out that other codes were struggling far more in Sydney and of course all you AFL nuts jumped in and went crazy as usual. What exactly is the problem? To keep you all happy I will admit it, Victorians are great at what they do, attending AFL matches. fantastic. But I simply cannot understand why my comments get deleted because something as innocuous as my original comment has upset the usual precious AFL suspects on an NRL thread. It's quite bizarre really.

Yes, the facts are that last year Sydney and Melbourne's cricket crowds were very comparable AR, MCG 62,000, Homebush 60,000 and as i stated the basketball crowds were also good in Sydney too. NRL crowds are in fact historically good as well (and better than in Melbourne). The fact is there is in fact no problem with NRL crowds, they are on the up and with a few innovations and promotions they will probably continue to rise. AFL crowds are great in Melbourne but in Sydney they are only comparable to crowds in other codes. The Swans are only the 4th best attened football club in NSW at the moment. Football crowds in Melbourne are better than Sydney FC also, but what does that mean? You can strut all you like about soccer crowds AR, but the bare facts are that 50% of the players who have represented the Socceroos have come from Western Sydney alone. Similar statistics with cricket. Sydney and Melbourne are very different places AR. As to which is better?? As I say Melburnians are very good at attending AFL games. Sydney is good at producing athletes for other sports.

NRL has to try something, whatever they have been doing does not work. With the population and interest in NRL it just does not add up the palry attendances. Blackouts in pay and free tv must be pushed also to boost attendances. There are too many sides in Sydney, they need to have teams in more areas, more tv markets. I would even get the big clubs to break away if the old guard are still dragging their feet.

the sydney derbies should average 22, 000 if the games with outside sydney teams average 11, 000. face it sydney siders are aoathetic the difference in crowd numbers between afl and league is also the difference in assion and this is why afl is aus number one sort

PLANKO you should know by now not to flame Oikee's delusions I love that he says "we had to shed because of the cap, and we lost Lockyer, a million dollar player"!! Million dollar player?? Interesting cause all these years we were told he wasn't taking up much of the Broncos cap due to 3rd party deals. But now he is retired it has freed up a million dollars?! Oh dear. Have another tawny Oikee.

Attendance is an indicator of engagement with sport perhaps, but not the only one. I think you will find anyway that Sydney Cricket crowds, (except fpr boxing day itself) were better than Melbourne cricket crowds, and that the Kings outdrew the Tigers in the NBL last year. The fact that the non AFL states dominate the representation in every other sport other than AFL (and Lacrosse apparently) would indicate the the AFL states engagement with other sports is fairly shallow. The fact that NSW and QLD contribute far more representatives in AFL than AFL states do to the rugby codes would be indicative of this fact as well. Also on any cursory discussion with an AFL fan it will be immediately obvious they don't have any understanding or even any interest in any other sport at all.

As I say below, I hardly think "crowds" are keeping Demetriou up at night. The AFL gets the 3rd best crowd averages in the world. At any rate, this article is about "Sydney NRL"...but I'll indulge your passion for pumping up your home town: I love your comment: "I’d say that except maybe for boxing day cricket crowds were actually better in Sydney" YOU'd say? Well that's nice but you'd be wrong. The Twenty20 game at ANZ stadium had 59,659 - a record for any cricket match ever in Sydney. The MCG, on the other hand, has never had a T20 crowd UNDER that figure. Comparing MCG crowds to SCG is just plain weird. The numbers were also predictably poor in the "home of soccer", with Sydney FC drawing a dismal 12k...less than Melb, Bris and Newcastle...and there were 9,000 more people each week going to see a 2nd Melb team. http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/aus-a-league-2011-2012/1/ Last year the Tahs averaged 3,000 more than newboys the Rebels - not great reading for "the home of rugby" in Australia that "produces all our Wallabies". *cough* But I'll give you basketball. The Kings did indeed get bigger crowds than the Melb Tigers. Though the Tigers apparently scaled down operations to play at a 3,500 venue - but fairs fair...the NBL is all yours. http://www.hoops.com.au/forum/28015-nbl-average-attendances-2011-12-regular-season/ As for all our "international representatives"...I guess Greg Norman, Cathy Freeman, Mick Doohan, John Eales, Kieren Perkins, Grant Hackett et al are just proud as punch that they're Sydneysiders thru and thru. (Hmmm...now I know how silly that feels).

As I understand it cattery the Noble and the Bradman stands are closed. 3/4 of the ground is unaffected. The capacity was 46,000, i expect there are still 35,000 very comfortable seats at the SCG. (I wish my NRL team could offer me that) The decline in Swans crowds is on trend from last year where AR tells me they averaged 27,000 and 31,000 the year before that. They were undefeated heavily hyped and they get 22,000. Every week in the build up on the radio the ABC announces the Swans are expecting a bumper crowd so 22,000 must be pretty good, someone must be telling them that. As I say Cattery there are 3 NSW NRL clubs outdrawing the Swans and if things keep getting worse for them and the NRL crowds continue to grow I expect Wests and Souths will pass them in the next couple of years. I don't know what you think is happening, I expect you think this is all just a blip on the road to world to domination, but it seems fairly clear to me. The fact the GWS have a higher home ground average than the Swans is surely of concern for the Sydney administration. If things keep on that way the Swans may be moved to canberra before GWS.

JVGO The SCG is currently a construction zone, and yet the Swans have averaged exaclty 22,000 across four games there. GWS have only played two home games in Sydney so far this season, and as it happens, they too are currently averaging 22,000 across those two games. They are anticipating 20,000 for their debut game at the Showgrounds against Essendon, which ain't too bad for a new club near the bottom of the ladder.

Planko, the TV execs decide under the current deal which day the games will be played. Nine get first crak for the friday games, the rest is upto fox. This situation will not be repeated under the new TV deal.

I don't think because you observed the spread of a newspaper means that Sydney is more "diverse"...though I'd agree that Melbourne is more fanatical about AFL than Sydney is about NRL. The Mexicans seems to draw better crowds across just about every sport and their other events like the Tennis, Racing, Golf, F1, MotoGP etc create a diversity that Sydney could only dream about. As I said, it obviously doesn't matter, but it just sounded like another baseless Sydney-centric comment that we see a lot of on the Roar.

The simple fact is AR that AFL crowds in Sydney, about 20,000 and 6,000 for the two clubs are comparable to other sporting codes in Sydney. I'd say that except maybe for boxing day cricket crowds were actually better in Sydney than in Melbourne and I expect the Kings drawing about 7,000 was better than the Tigers. My point is that Sydney is still engaged with sports deeply enough to produce the overwhelming majority of our representatives in all sports other then AFL (and Lacrosse apparently). The fact that masses of people in Victoria play and attend AFL is simply irrelevant to what goes on in Sydney. Sydney NRL crowds are in historical terms quite good at the moment, while AFL crowds seem to be tending back to their historiccal norms also, despite the AFL spending hundreds of millions in marketing. The Swans crowds are down 20% this year and about 70% over the last five years. The idea that any sport, including AFL or NRL will ever emulate Melbourne's fascination with Collingwood and Essendon et al is a fantasy. In fact it isn't a desirable outcome anyway, otherwise where would our International representatives come from?