I do not have a real problem with Sam Kasiano being selected in Origin. I can take it. It’s not quite right in the current environment of opinion, sure. But that’s ok.
We all have ideas on how to avoid it in the future.
Read what ARLC Chairman John Grant has to say about Test rugby league
Not because people like Sam should be made ineligible, but because we hope to never be put in a position again where we see a potential key New Zealand player have to leave his country and weaken his national team, just to throw on a state jersey for his adopted county.
Indeed, no. Not when we know New Zealand would kill to have him playing. They need all the good players they can get. Now, and in the future.
Sam may be a lost cause now for the Kiwis. We don’t know what he thinks, will do, or if he will gain eventual Queensland selection.
But just think: what if a future “Sam” was so engrossed in the idea of playing for the Kiwis, that as soon as Mal approached him, he would say, “No thunks, mate. I want to ply for the Keeeewiis. Und theet’s theet.”
Why, because he has been itching to chuck on a jersey since he was a kid, and what’s more, the rewards to play for his country (above sheer prestige alone) are financially worth it.
ARL chairman John Grant recently spoke about the Kasiano eligibility issue. The issue has caused a furore among fans of the game (if the 138+ comments on the Daily Telegraph site are anything to go by).
But it just doesn’t seem right does it, Kiwis in Blue and Maroon jerseys?
Recently the ARLC made changes to the eligibility test.
Grant said the criteria that had been established to cover representative eligibility had to be the main guide when it came to Origin. If Sam Kasiano is qualified to play State of Origin for Queensland, then he has every right to play it – and if the New Zealand rugby league wants to change that situation, it needs to get tougher at international board level.
”Players have some decisions to make about which country they can choose to play for, and the players who play in our competition have some decisions to make about whether they play State of Origin,” he said.
There are five levels of criteria for selection and a player needs to meet three of the five. Of those five, Sam makes three. That’s 60%, so if he wants to, he will not be stopped.
Somewhere deep inside us all, we hope Kasiano will be proud to be (or have been) a Kiwi. But only Sam knows who he wants to play for.
Grant said yesterday, “The first decision (Kasiano) should be making, what we’d like him to make, is if he is going to play for Australia,”;
“Now, if the rules allow him to play for Australia then clearly he’s got to be allowed for State of Origin.
“I don’t think the State of Origin rules are going to change, I think more the issue is the international rules.
“Internationals should come before State of Origin. You either play for Australia or New Zealand or whatever before you contemplate about either New South Wales or Queensland.”
It’s clear to me that the commission is setting things right with comments like this. You don’t restore an old car to its former gleaming glory in a day. Such is it with rugby league. But you do buy the right parts, and you do go about the business of restoring it in the proper manner.
On the one hand, one may say he is not going far enough. But this is not an issue that the ARLC itself can solve. He later called upon the NZRL to get into the mix at the next board meeting, which makes sense.
If anyone was doubting whether Grant knew anything of rugby league’s workings, they would be wrong.
However, it’s one thing to have the rules in place, yet another for people to want to adhere to them. Oh, people are always trying to sneak through the cracks, if the price is right. Look at Mal Meninga and Ricky Stuart right now, courting players to throw on state jerseys.
If it were me, I would not go near Kiwi players, for fear of tampering. But I can understand Mal and Ricky. They will be wanting to take any advantage they can.
Is it enough to leave it up to New Zealand? No. The NRL has a responsibility to assist with this issue also. But New Zealand must be doing its best to make players want to play for the Kiwis. They need to work harder to instil youngsters with Kiwi pride, so that they would not dream of switching to Australia, ala Sam Burgess.
I have no doubt that packed out Test matches against highly competitive opposition year in, year out will generate money to match Origin. Would it not be great if we had two series each year without fail that were massive – Origin and Tests?
I have a few ideas that might allow this to happen:
Loyalty payments for Kiwi players given over time, in accordance with their service would assist the Kiwis to build a strong team. There should be immediate bonuses to such a funding pool should they win a series or complete a certain number of years of service. We don’t want any potential or current Kiwi player feel like he is missing out just because he’s chosen the joy of playing for his nation over immediate Origin gain. In order to fund this, the ARLC could provide the NZRL with subsidies until the team becomes more financially strong.
Another idea is Kiwi Origin. Whether North v South Island, Auckland v everywhere else or New Zealand in the State of Origin, there is a significant gap that could be filled by New Zealand players participating in some form of Origin contest.
This may be facilitated by shortening the NRL season.
But the best thing the NRL could do is start up a second New Zealand team. Firstly, a second NZ team could join the Toyota Cup, with a view to building a squad in three years time. This would allow the team to be competitive from the start, unlike the usual case with expansion teams (take note, Gold Coast Suns).
Overall, we need to take the strengths of Origin and the things that are common for successful sporting teams and replicate them to the Test arena for NZ. We need players choosing to be a part of the Kiwi side because they truly want to. Financial return is just one thing. What of belonging and representing?
What if those two things also meant the player got to showcase his skills in front of big crowds and big TV audiences, and be lauded in the paper for days on end, just like in Origin?
And what of the youth coming through? Maybe this generation is lost, so let’s not lose the next one.
Australian Rules
Guest
You really need to slow down and read my comments before responding CC. No-one suggested that international league is irrelevant, frail or unimportant. What I actually said, is: "In terms of the NRL, I think the 3 tier-structure of League is both a strength and a frailty of the sport." The point that I, this article, and countless others have made in the last 2 weeks, is that when you have players from NZ and other countries defecting so they can play Origin, it is a problem that needs to be addressed. I think most fans of league would agree with that. Of course, perhaps it's better just to snipe sarcastically from the sidelines - a la JVGO.
JVGO
Guest
Admit it CC, everything about the AFL is just better and the removal of the international tier would relieve us of the embarrassment of having to beat international sporting powerhouses such as Scotland, Wales, Oman, NZ, or India. Instead it would enable us to satisfy our lust for victory by taking it in turns to beat the likes of Geelong or perhaps Port Adelaide. Once relieved of the international tier, and based purely upon contests played amongst ourselves, we could comfortably proclaim ourselves the sporting capital of the world, a title that for the moment Melbourne has conferred upon itself, but which once we have converted to AFL, we could confer upon the entire nation...hell just look at our crowds. Once we have converted to this closed system paradise CC all we have to do is give the AFL our money and they will confer happiness upon through the miracles of the salary cap and draft which promise periodical pilgrimmages to the 'G' in order to have a shot at recieving a flag. Just don't argue anymore CC, the future is all very clear already......and don;t mention the international rules thing....it's days as a marketing fiasco are obviously numbered.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Sorry to disappoint you AR,but I disagree with you.The three tiers are a strength.My so called random dot points ( a novel description I might add AR) are relevant to the subject matter.Facts tend to get in the way,judging by your response. For your edification I will repeat once more.I have been on a Kangaoro tour with a travel group.I had the pleasure of speaking to on the .I also spoke to other players at a function. He(Beetson) placed representing his country as being at the apex. Yes I do disagree with some of the articles..I place more credence on people who have represented their country,than your suggestion of frailty. One could argue quite soundly,having a two tiered system,and not being exposed to growing internationalism in a shrinking world, is indeed a minus.Because having exposure to internationalism regardless of how small,also brings in sponsors of such renown as Gillette and Alitalia and therefore exposure.. The effect of having the Warriors and a competitve NZ Kiwis,has also strengthened the game in that country as grassroots is growing strongly. Having a Catalans team in the ESL,has helped strengthen and grow the game in France. If that is considered a frailty ,then I didn't post this message. Exposure at 3 tiered level,is far better than exposure at a lower numbered level. Whilst SOO is the most intense and hyped within the code and at present the most popular,internationals still have uniqueness of representing one's country,to which players aspire. The fact there is a RLWC in 2013 in the UK, adds to the mix of internationalism. There is plenty of room for growing and strengthening the international game,as Grant has aluded I am sure you would like your code to have such opportunities for its players.
clipper
Guest
Col Quinn - you should then put a lot of your hard earned cash on England winning, as they are $8 to win the WC, which is very long odds in a 3 horse race. Australia are at $1.25 - very short odds, even shorter than the last WC and shorter than Nadal was at the French Open. All the other countries (except NZ) are over $100 - with France at $151 - which is worse than last WC, so I can't see how you can say the standard between the test playing is getting closer.
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League
Guest
The game became more professional in the 1970's. The NSWRFL clubs brought more money into the game by putting the names of sponsors on their players jerseys and broadcast the NSWRFL on television. The QRL and RFL followed suit. The game grew the most NSW and QLD because the markets in those areas were not bosotted with other football codes, plus there was no bias anti-bias by the people who ran the media in QLD and NSW. The RFL had to contend with the media in the south and midlands favouring RU and soccer. Sponsors go where the exposure is greatest. I believe that the poor old French were behind when the game became more professional in Australia and England. The limitations imposed by the Vichy regime in the 30s and 40s made it impossible for the FFR13 to be run as a fully professional sporting body. I reckon this is the reason why the French were competitive up until this period. Until then the game was pretty much a semi-pro sport. The FFR13 could survive at the time because the RFL, NSWRL and QRL made their money from ticket sales, which was something the FFR13 could also do. Things changed when television and advertising was brought into the game. Who is going to sponsor or televise a sport that was effectively marginalised by the government?
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League
Guest
Some sort of working deal needs to be reached between the RLIF, QRL, NSWRL and ARLC so that selectors do not pick players who should be playing for New Zealand or the islands.
Big_Marn2000
Roar Pro
Yes I'm aware that McGuire has played for Samoa. It's less than ideal, but Samoa is a minnow nation. They have no regular test schedule and I personally can't begrudge players for using minnow nations as stepping stones to greater representative honors (I wouldn't do it myself, but I can't blame others for doing it). That being said, NZ is clearly not a minnow nation. I believe it's good for the international game if we are somewhat flexible with the eligibility rules for minnow nations. But there should be no chopping and changing between Aus, NZ and England.
Australian Rules
Guest
The ARLC is 4 months old. As I said, let's hope it can iron out the bickering that has plagued league for so long...though Sticky and Mal might take awhile to sing from the same songsheet. CC, rather than throw up random dot points about how great league is, re-read what I actually wrote. n Australia, Origin is bigger than International. It swallows everything around it. All Kiwis and Islanders want to play Origin - some choose it over their own national duties. Why? Because the STANDARD of Origin (and the money) is better than international league. For those reasons, I think the 3 tier structure is both a strength and a frailty. Do you disagree with the dozens of articles that have been saying this over the past 2 weeks...or just me?
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Brandy Alexander dropping another clangerLOL .I would not take too much notice of him Oikee, on that aspect.He made some beauties on 2UE at times. Brain clicks into gear after he has opened his mouth. Great player,good commentator,but sometimesleads with his chin. International rl is not dead,it just needs the eligibilty rules firmly set,it needs to have more internationals played with the minor countries,and France needs more competition to get some of their talented youth up to a higher level.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
oikee.The decision on intnl eligibility is up to the RLIF ,and not the ARLC.Grant has stated such,and virtually told the NZRL to get their finger out,and get it sorted out at the next RLIF meeting.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
As you commented the fighting with itself argument does not apply anymore AR as to the QRL/NSWRL ,because they are under the control of one body. if a three tier system is a weakness,then explain how participation rates are at record levels,as is sponsorship,and crowds despite some ordinary weather still down very fractionally. Explain how SOO continues to grow in crowds/sponsorship and Tv ratings.Explain how the last Oz v Kiwis test had 1.5m Tv ratings in this country ,plus whatever the figure was in NZ. Perhaps having a RLWC in 2013 in the UK,which has UK govt backing and local council backing,is somehow a feature of failure. Do not ignore the fact that heh chairman of the ARLC is a former rugby league international,who values that aspect highlyAnd has stated his intention to give it teh respect it deserves.. There are people who live only for NRL club games,there are additonal people who watch rl because of SOO,plus the NRl diehards,and there are still more than you think inrested in ther intnl side. A weakness? No a plus.
oikee
Guest
Well said Big Marn. The game needs leadership now, not after we have picked the players. Tamou is a kiwi, fullstop, nothing can change this fact. The other 2 who want to play for Queensland are at least islanders. It still does not change the fact this should not happen, the game has to come up with a expanded series to include all these other players. If they cant do this, maybe they should go manage lawn bowls or some other sport. The commission was formed to hopefully sort out these hard issues, so far they are failing badly. We need a man with vision, step forward now.
oikee
Guest
I was watching Fox last night. You had Brandi Alexander saying international rugby league is dead. This is what is wrong with the game, these TV presenters who think they have a voice. Same as Paul Kent, he wants to make Joey Johns a Immotal, same as Brandi, here let me give you a example of what will happen with the immortals if they induct Joey. Mother Teresa, Dali Larma, Nelson Mandela, Charles Manson. Bob Fulton, Reg Gasnier, John Raper, Joey Johns. Can you pick the odd one out in the above senario's, ? It is easy no. And if they make Joey a Immotal, i will never rate the immortals ever again. It will be the joke it has become, and you cant take it back once you make him immortal. Bob Fulton should never be part of the process, he is pushing for Johns without realising how silly this would be. Joey played his career taking drugs, Same as the Canadian Sprinter Johnson, who was stripped of his medals. They did not make him anything, they never forgave him. I think our game is losing credibility. If we allow this to happen, it will taint the group forever. I am waiting for a man with vision to step forward to run rugby league, the new CEO. Our game needs leadership now.
oikee
Guest
You do realise McGuire played for Samoa not long ago. Queensland already had Brad thorn and Tony Carrol playing for us, 2 fine Kiwis, we take all comers who want to lay dowbn their life for the Maroon jersey,. Lets not kid ourselves, and we will still watch and cheer for everyone who wares the maroon jersey. Even Adrian Lamb the Papua New Guineian and Neval Costigan.
Emric
Guest
Not sure I agree with you as potential all blacks have turned down the big money to become all blacks in the past
Sylvester
Guest
ARL = big fish. NZRL = small fish. IRLF = completely toothless.
Sylvester
Guest
Emric, I'm sure these guys have a lot of pride for NZ, which is why a lot of the Aussie-born players with NZ parents choose the Kiwis, but you're asking a young professional to turn down $150K a year for the chance they may get selected for a test at some stage in the future. Not straight-forward.
Meesta Cool
Guest
In the case of Melbourne, Perth etc: -- If they are first to register a player, the eligibility (If not born in NSW or Queensland), should be determined by alternate registrations for each player registered ,ie: 1st player= Q/Land, 2nd player = NSW ans so on!.
Meesta Cool
Guest
Queenslandaahhhh. -- I never heard a truer word, I would love to see the Pom's competitive again, unfortuntely they are currently strengthening their clubs by having too many imports, when I was a young Pom, each team were allowed 2 only non English players, now it's twelve!. The real Poms aren't getting a chance to prove themselves. Now let's take a look at our under 20s comp, full of NZ'ers and Islanders, maybe in ten years we will be were England is now (That is if the the International RL association put a stop to us filling our Oz team with these kids)!. and that could happen sooner than later!. Before international games become close ly fought contests, we need to address one simple rule.. Any player becoming an Australian Citizen after the age of 10yrs, should not be able to nominate to play for Australia.. end of story!. State of Origin eligibility should be, The FIRST competitive club that registers a player determines the ORIGIN of this player. albeit a NSW person playing in Q/Land or vice versa.. Origin= State first registered in. simple, no options, no choices!.
Big_Marn2000
Roar Pro
100% spot on. As a proud Blue, I hate the fact that Tamou and Uate take the places of the likes of Aaron Woods and Brett Morris. I'd also hate it if QLD replaced Dave Taylor with Kasiano instead of Josh McGuire. Regardless of his nationality, I actually think McGuire deserves the spot more than Kasiano, and I'd hate for Kasiano to be picked just so he can never play for NZ in the future. I'm sure if Big Artie was still with us he'd be less than impressed if Kasiano was selected over a fair dinkum QLDer like McGuire.