I think the time has come for the NRL to launch a new, combined NSW and Queensland Cup competition that takes over as the main curtain raiser to first grade every weekend.
Since 2008, the Toyota Cup (NYC) has been the primary second-tier competition for the NRL. While I am a big fan of the concept, I just don’t believe it should be the only game to precede first grade each week.
Since the NYC’s inception five years ago, the NSW Cup has been pushed to the side and has been largely forgotten about by league fans. It now draws low attendances and receives little publicity.
The NSW Cup is now a very unstable competition, with clubs forced to fold every season due to economic loss.
In a time where viewers demand a more exciting brand of sport we have seen the rise of experimentations such as Rugby 7s and Twenty20 cricket. The Toyota Cup’s high scoring, fast tempo and hard-hitting play certainly meet all the criteria for a successful competition.
However, although the under 20s concept is a vital part of the future development of young talent, I believe there needs to be a better funded and newly restructured reserve grade system that takes over as the main curtain raiser to first grade.
Under the current NSW and Queensland Cup format, clubs like Melbourne and Canberra have a team in both feeder competitions, while Brisbane and the Gold Coast are forced to spread their talent across 3 squads each. This results in a reduced standard of football.
I would like to see the National Rugby League inject funds into a joint competition, where each of the 16 NRL clubs are represented. It would become the main second-tier competition where those over the age of 20 who don’t make first grade could play each weekend.
I believe that if the NRL and the Independent Commission want to get serious about improving the quality of rugby league in the future, this needs to be their first port of call. By creating a more competitive feeder competition, the flow on effects will improve all levels of the game.
Currently, the New South Wales Cup receives very little media coverage, with only a few local radio stations calling games, while a weekly program on Fox Sports broadcasts the game of the round every Wednesday night.
The Intrust Super Cup (Queensland Cup) does have their match of the round televised live every Sunday on Channel 9, this is still not enough for a competition that puts on highly entertaining games each week.
With many fans baulking at the rise in ticket prices, particularly over the past couple of seasons, I believe the cost would be more justified if a family could spend the whole afternoon at the footy. Fans would be able to see the best up and coming players their club has to offer, followed by a curtain raiser with fringe first graders taking the field.
I for one would be much more likely to make the trek up to fortress Brookie knowing that I could enjoy Manly battle it out against Cronulla in all three grades.
I believe coaches would also be behind these changes. The likes of Hasler, Bellamy and Toovey would be able to watch both the under 20s and reserve grade matches, getting a better feel for those who are performing well and deserve a call up. This surely has to be better than relying on a poor quality recording of a game played interstate.
For the 5:30pm saturday and 2pm sunday game on Fox Sports, it would be great if instead of just showing the Toyota Cup game prior to the NRL kicking off, the reserve grade was also telecast.
What NRL fan could say no to two more live games of football per weekend?
Finally, while the NSW Cup grand final gets to share the big stage with the NRL, the Intrust Super Cup is confined to holding theirs a week earlier at Suncorp Stadium. Under the new ,combined fixture, they would both share centre stage with first grade.
What do you think Roarers? Do you like the current separated state based system, or would you like to see a combined reserve grade competition where every club is represented?
Nathan Beuman
Roar Guru
Thanks npollard. Yes, I would have to agree. I would really like to see teams (although some already do it) forced to warmup on another field. The only problem would be the inconsistency with starting times of Toyota Cup depending on if the teams had to warm up on the ground or not. You always see an influx of people just before kickoff because the average fan doesn't want to sit there and just watch their team warm up when they could be across the road at the Leagues Club. Moving it to Under 21's could have some potential. I don't know about 23 because then the gap between the first years and final year would be to great. As it is now, really if you don't make it in first grade by the time your 20, you either get put in the NSW Cup competition were you get no publicity, or you are given the flick to play park footy. I'm all for the NRL reaching out into country areas, but as you said I just don't think it would be practical to have the NSW Cup based in rural towns. It would really effect players with traveling if those from Penrith had to travel out to Dubbo, or Cronulla's NSW Cup team had to head out to Bathurst. If there was a small regional airport nearby it would be so bad, but this won't always be the case.
npollard
Roar Rookie
Nice article Nathan. You have raised a lot of issues that interest me as well. I agree with the lack of football entertainment at the ground. I say this every time I watch a game and have to sit and wait for over 30 minutes between the Toyota cup game and the NRL match. If the Toyota cup finished 5 or 10 minutes before NRL kickoff many more people would arrive earlier and get to see 2 matches. Instead the crowd marches in as the 20s are finishing and then nothing to do but watch the players warmup. When ever a ground has an external warmup area it should be used by the NRL teams and the 20s should start and finish later. On the Toyota cup youth competition concept. It is a good one but the age is too young and should at least be under21 and probably should be under23s. I personally know one former NYC player who has quit playing. He is a forward and about 4 years away from peak ability. Have a look at the Wests Tigers NYC squad which is on top at the moment. The percentage of Polynesian heritage players is way higher than NRL. No, I am not racist! It just that a players DNA will determine their physical peak and for males this is anywhere between 14 and 25 which is consistently earlier in some racial types. There is a no-mans land for many guys between NYC and NRL. We all know that Sydney is over supplied with NRL teams. This is a real difficulty for any expansion of the NRL and a problem for the profile of NSW cup teams who essentially compete with the NRL as football entertainment in Sydney. A NSW Cup competition should have teams that include the main regional centres across the state such as Albury, Wagga, Dubbo, Queanbeyan, Tamworth, Bathurst/Orange, Coffs Harbour and Maitland. Clubs such as Wenty, Ryde-Eastwood, Newtown, Norths and Illawarra are NSW Cup level organisations within Sydney region. Financing is always the issue and the NRL clubs would have no interest in having a feeder team in a regional centre if they have to foot the bill for player travel costs. The Melbourne Storm use Cronulla and Brisbane Easts as feeder clubs through necessity. I submitted the following article earlier this month: http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/06/07/nrl-grand-final-test-matches-origin-sale/ In it I suggest that selling the ground rights for the first SOO game each year could be a revenue stream to directly aid the funding of the new regional NSW cup teams. Suggested NSWC/NRL pairs could be Albury/Melbourne, Wagga/Canberra, Dubbo/Penrith, Tamworth/Cronulla, Bathurst/Canterbury, Coffs/Manly, Maitland/Newcastle, Illawarra/Dragons, Wenty/Parramatta, Ryde/WestsTigers, Norths/Souths and Newtown/Roosters. I also like the concept of NSW Cup winner Vs Qld Cup winner as a preliminary match on NRL Grand Final day.
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League
Guest
I signed up for the Outback membership that hte Pride created earlier this year. I've seen most of their matches via the live stream they provide to members. Not bad for just $20! There is always a good turnout for the games.
Queensland's Game Is Rugby League
Guest
I like the Queensland Cup the way it is. Going to a Queensland Cup match is more enjoyable than an NRL match. I've attended about 8 to 10 Wynnum Manly Seagulls matches this season. The only one I missed was their home game against Burleigh, for family reasons. More Queenslanders should go out and support the Queensland Cup. There's the FOGS Colts and FOGS A grade games played before the main game (for the south-east Queensland clubs). Costs just $10 a match at most clubs, or $88 for a season pass with the Wynnum Manly Seagulls. Great value for money. I got the Gold Membership deal with Wynnum Manly for about $150. With that I got the choice of two tickets for origin 3, a polo shirt and a cap with my member number embroided on both, plus a keyring. I can sit wherever I like and don't have to worry about being pakced into a skinny little row. I wish the QRL would make it so that the only way a person can go to see SOO at Lang Park is by becoming a ticketed member of a Queensland Cup team. The real fans should be given first choice to matches at origin.
bjt
The second tier comps need to be treated with respect and as a very valuable part of rugby league in Australia and it's surrounding area. 1) The QLD Cup and NSW cup should never be combined. These teams represent their state and play an important part of rugby league development. 2) These teams should not be a simple reserve grade team such as "Brisbane Broncos Reserve Grade", but retain their individual identity. Some of their histories go back a long way, and shouldn't be tampered with. 3) Individual identities will also go a long way to implementing a challenge cup (UK) based competition, in my opinion this is seriously lacking in Australia. Actually, I'm pretty confident the Wynnum Manly Seagulls would beat most teams in the NRL this year. They should be given opportunity to embarrass the likes or Parramatta or Penrith. 4) A cup game should be the curtain raiser to the NRL game, selected by some means, and not necessarily tied to the club playing. The club might lose some revenue but should be compensated. 5) Each state should have an NRL team and Cup comp. NZ is seriously lacking in this department, and should be made accountable, at least formally told to stop the whinging about players they haven't developed, nor given opportunities too, for choosing to play for Australia, the country of their residence, and developer. 6) NSW Cup will be the future of most of the Sydney clubs running around in the NRL. Out of the nine, at least 4 will be playing it in within 15 - 20 years time. A lot don't want to admit this, but it will happen. Therefore the NSW Cup needs to be cherished, not neglected, the public need a vested interest in it. 7) The QLD cup winner vs NSW cup winner is a 100% must before the grand final. There are no negatives. This needs to happen. Overtime it can be expanded to include other state cups when they develop to a certain level. If WA get in their in the NRL in 2015, their state cup will be ready in 10 or so years. All the state winners can play off in a semi final format inline with the NRL semi finals. Of course a long way away, but this is the future we need. The Cup comps have the potential, hopefully with the fall of the limp gallop, the logical future can happen.
PeterT
Guest
I'm a lover of the game moreso than a club fan and I would love to see a QLD game on FTA. Better than those old re-runs on 99 or channel 11.
NQ
Guest
i ahvent read everyones posts yet and someone may have already said it - THe QLD cup is great - in fact all the games a entertaining and are all recieved well - Here in Cairns the pride always pull a crowd and you get to see NRL players coming back from injuries getting a run in the local side its great Maybe the NSW cup is struggling but QLD seem to be getting a stronger comp - Tom Humble playing for the Tigers was a Pride player - Daly cherry ZEvans was playing for the sunshine coast - we got plenty of talent up here whats makes it a great comp
Alby
Guest
8972 that is a great story appreciate Shellharbour Dragons folded but now they have Illawarra Cutters and understand the Western Suburbs scenario they lost a lot of good players because they weren't going to enter the NSW Cup at one stage they were going to link with St George. Next year they will be playing under one banner whether that is Wests Tigers or Wests magpies remains to be seen. The NSWRL have done a great job considering the circumstances. Now we havee the ARLC I hope that they can put in place a proper plan of management. The game needs to thrive the Jets took a game to Parkes maybe the Bears can take one to Wagga etc. The game has to grow organically and respect its past in order to embrace the future. I also think we should include SG Ball & H Matt's in conjunction in the early part of the season and then work with the Jnr Leagues. I have also heard that Souths might be going it alone Next year and playing out of Redfern which would then mean Melbourne would send players back to Norths or form own team like previous years.
kenweir
Guest
This article just about sums it up Rugby League die hards,all want to go to the footy see 3 games,get value for the entry price and have a good day out Strong players coming through the lower grades are a necessity but where are they going to come from? What happened to the B.R.L. once the Broncos,joined the Sydney Comp.was tragic and its just starting to come good again now ,I just hope that some people with the love of the game and the means come along and get the Comp. back to where it was,surely this must be a step in the right direction This is where expansion should begin,at the grass roots level Let the NRL go to Perth or Adelaide or Woop Woop,as it seems they will but fix up our BRL .Comp. so we have competitive games with a renewed club spirit and increased supporters Then the players will be elated to perform in front of 10000 fans instead of the few hundred they draw today Not everyone likes or supports the Broncos,but we are nowhere near ready to have a second team in the NRL
Pot Stirrer
Guest
I think this should be a priority for the commision. My thoughts on crowd attendances is that the reason they arnt as good as they could be is our games dont go for long enough and if we have a quality reserve grade with players the public know of it would make it more appealing to attend a match as its not over in just 90 min, i think part of the reason AFL has been able to build such a culture of going to the games is its a day out where you dont spend more time travelling than enjoying the game.
Bring Back the Bears
Guest
I agree with your idea about strengthening reserve grade, however aligning all the NSW/QLD Cup teams with current NRL teams isn't the answer. For instance what happens to successful franchises such as the Jets or the Bears. Not only this but what happens to regions that aren't currently represented by the NRL, is it just a case of too bad? By creating a national 2nd grade you will effectively be ignoring Central Queensland, Ipswich, North Sydney, Sunshine Coast, Cairns and Newtown, strong rugby league markets that provide a lot of junior talent. Once these teams are gone it isn't a case of these areas will keep providing us with talent and uphold an unconditional love for the game despite being neglected. Junior numbers will dwindle and will open the areas up to being targeted by other sporting codes. Instead of streamlining 2nd grade so it is essentially a reserve grade, I think the NSW Cup should go the other direction and represent areas that aren't other wise represented by the NRL. Sydney is already well and truly represented in the NRL (with the exception of North Sydney), how about also bringing in Central Coast, Hunter, Mid-North Coast (Coffs and Port), New England, Tweed, Central West, Riverina, ACT, South Coast and Wellington NZ. Make it a state comp, not a Sydney comp. I also like the idea of having a Superbowl esq grand final, with the winner of the QLD Cup taking on the winner of the NSW Cup at the end of the year.
Nathan Beuman
Roar Guru
No doubt there is some highly entertaining games played every round but there are also some completely one sided games. You just have to look at Western Suburbs who are 0-16 with a -738 points differential so see that something needs to change. I thought Newtown usually got around the 8972 mark to every home game? I was involved with the Shellharbour Dragons in 2010 so got to go to all their games, and no doubt there are some great grounds in the competition, but when your getting very few fans to the games, after a couple of seasons of running at a loss, teams start to fold. I'm happy if this model were to be adopted by the NRL, for the Bears to be Souths reserve grade side, Newtown with the Roosters. I don't don't like this Canberra with Mounties and Melbourne sending players to Cronulla every week.
Alby
Guest
As someone who broadcasts on one of the local radio stations HHH 100.0FM triplehfm.com.au the quality of play over the last 2 years has been outstanding. I agree more has to be done to promote so more people watch the game the Newtown Club in particualr engages with their local community and get over 1500 to most games. I think it is vital that the ARLC repsects its past and ensures that clubs like Newtown & Norths survive. As must as i would like to go back to the old days and have 3 grades on the same day it is not practical for each game every week. What could be proposed is that certain games wher both clubs have 3 grades be played ie back to Leichhardt Day or back to Kogarah Day. The clubs that respect the NSWRL Cup and have paitence are reeping the rewards. Those clubs that have alliances with strong local backed sides like Mouties/Canberra-Parramatta/Wenty-StGi/Cutters will also reap rewards in the long term as it provides another path to the top grade RL Scouts might see a kid who for what ever reason didn't get graded by his local side but is making a name for himself in these teams. Work out the draw at the beginging of the season have 3 games where possible and enhance the rest an yes a few mid week games would be great.
JazzyJase
Roar Pro
i'm another who'd like to see it back. The reserve grade provides the bridge from U20's to Firsties. It is a huge development for a 19 year old having the opportunity to play alongside a veteran in reserve grade, prior to going on to the big time. Plus there are many who would get there early to watch all three grades now there seems to be a awful lot of pre match entertainment when U20's finishes to First Grade kick off
Nathan Beuman
Roar Guru
You would think that if the NRL pooled the money they give to both the NSW and QLD Cup now, as well as some of they money they are going to make from this big TV deal they would be able to get a stable and competitive reserve grade competition up and running. I'm all for a game of rugby league every day of the week, but if they were going to move a competition to mid-week, I think it would be better if it was the Toyota Cup rather then reserve grade. If your club played a reserve grade game on a Wednesday night for example, while the first grade side were to play on a Friday night, it would be a lot to ask a reserve grade player to back up on the Friday. Yes I understand that a number of players do it through State of Origin, but these players aren't in first grade for a reason. If you ask for them to do it a couple of times in a season, your going to burn them out pretty quickly. If a competition was able to survive on backing up from mid-week, it think it would be the youth of the Toyota Cup. The AFL has a Foxtel Cup which is a knockout competition with 16 teams. Every game is televised on Fox Sports throughout the season which can't hurt the publicity for the competition. This however isn't a Sydney v Fremantle in reserve grade, its just an invitational with 16 teams from all across Australia. This concept i wouldn't mind seeing adopted with the NRL but only as an additional competition, which saw the premiers of Group 9 up against Group 12 from the previous season in a knockout style competition.
peeeko
Roar Guru
id love to see it back, but probably not feasible due to costs
Johnno
Guest
The NRL had a meeting about this year. And they decided not to do it. Due to costs. -Reserve grade would be great but costs are an issue -What i think could be good is the re-branding of a 2nd division , not necessarily promotion/relegation to the NRL, but a re brnaded 2nd division comp. -And play the matches midweek Tuesday-wendsday-thursday) -Why midweek is this tv ratings $$$. -Toyota cup is looking to go midweek, as it means less market saturation. And they can have a stand alone tv slot with no NRL 1st grade to compete with for ratings, so mid week still gives footy fans some footy they crave without it clashing with the NRL 1st grade. -Old Panasonic cup in the 1980's used to berate as was the old schoolboys commonwealth bank cup. They were mid week on tv they rated well. -You couldn't bring back a panasonic cup as the standard between NRL clubs and bush footy teams or NSW/QLD cup teams would be too great now and player safety issues. -But i think gave a 2nd division National comp but play midweek, or even just state based if travel costs are too much of an issue. -Toyota cup rated well this would too . Doesn't AFL have some kinda 2nds comps now i read about somewhere.