NRL suburban grounds debate continues

Correct me if I'm wrong Captain Obvious but doesn't the NFL have a clause where if a game doesn't sell out, the game won't be televised in the local area. Makes the stakes of not going higher, so it's not really the same thing. Plus NY, a state of 20 million people has two teams to support. Sydney with 4 million people has 9 teams, plus 2 other football codes to compete with. I agree with you however that the crowd figures in Sydney can be embarrassing however if Brisbane had 4 of 5 teams separating each region I'm sure their crowd figures would be similar. This issue for Sydney now however is you can't just reduce the amount of teams to solve the issue. RL is a tribal game and I know from experience that if your team is removed it is not just a simple matter of supporting the next closest team geographically. Unfortunately there is no easy solution, however the NRL is taking a step in the right direction by finally promoting club memberships. If Sydney is too small to support the amount of teams it currently has then a club will find out soon enough through natural selection. I thought the sharkies would be the first to be put in this position but they are looking stronger and stronger each day.

That should have been current work in progress.ATM a pipe dream Johnno. If it does get off the ground ,I will be the first to jump for joy. The SFS that apparently won a design award,but apparently the architect had little concept about creature comfort,should have provided decent cover at the time of design and completion. Getting drenched at an SOO many years ago,in prime seating on the half way mark,is not my idea of catering for the spectators,who should be at the top of the pile, when it comes to an architect's vision.

Read this in the paper today about grand plan for Allianz and the SCG, with light rail and stadium upgrades. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/here-you-go-sports-fans-sydneys-about-to-get-its-very-own-wembley/story-e6freuy9-1226431256795

Transport,road infrastructure,Harbour bridge clogging and geographical spread in Sydney is chalk and cheese ,comparing it to Melbourne.Plus a code being the only code(in reality) as it is in Melbourne,then of course the fans are rivetted on. I have been driving Sydney roads for as long as I care to remember,and the traffic alone in the last 5-10 years has more than doubled,and that is just the weekends.Try a taxi from the shire to Mascot airport on a weekday or even a Saturday,you have your fingerds and legs crossed hoping the cab will get there in time. The Sydney CBD alone is a schmozzle. Have a rail System that goes direct from brookvale to ANZ or the SFS ,or decent uncluttered freeways or tollways for the outlying suburbs ,and sydney fans may well be as keen to get to Central stadiums. Get a rail line adjacent to the SFS and watch the crowds jump. Melburnians also praise their road and public transport set up in comparsion to Sydney. Try to get to Campbelltown from Manly,or Cronulla to Penrith,when the game is on a monday evening.How many monday evening games do AFL schedule? A two stadium option will only work,when the transport situation is greatly improved,and there is as much chance of that happening ,as me scoring a date with Pippa Middleton.

Back during the game of the round days the SCG got 50 thousand plus a few times, so if it is marketed well I reckon it is possible. I agree with your sentiment about games in better time slots. The Sunday Afternoon timeslot is the most important. I think that perhaps moving one of the Saturday Night games and playing them on Sunday afternoons would increase crowds, by allowing more families to attend and also improve the quality of football that we get. Having said that the NRL need to be proactive to entice the Sydney public to games of football.

Exactly. New York has similar (if not worse) problems with transport and topography as Sydney does. But that doesn't stop Giants and Jets fans travelling to New Jersey for games.

That's actually true Captain. I know plenty down in Melbourne who travel the distance every weekend for games. Most people live 1hr+ (on pub transport) from the heart of the city where the stadiums are.

Why on earth would you remove the Tennis courts - they are well attended and have been there form many, many years

I don't need to read all of the comments to imagine the excuses put up by the average Sydney NRL fan. The difference between them and the average AFL fan is simply the willingness to travel. With the latter, it's not just into the city for home games but to attend interstate games and make a holiday out of it. It could be a cultural thing with the southern states, because I notice that the Storm fans on my Facebook are similarly inclined (and organised).

A very good summary 81paling of you a good and loyal sportsman who loves his rugby league and his club. -The NRL thinks it can rely on you the most loyal of fans no matter what. But many other fans are not as loyal or as willing to go through the same big sacrifices as you. And full credit to you. Suggestions to help you with this. -If you have foxtel get foxtel then you can watch the match from the comfort of your own home in your lounge room on the couch , easy as. No worries about parking, bad weather, travel costs, expensive fast food. -Try and take a stand if you are not happy with the 2 stadium option and just don't go and the NRL will listen to fans like you if your not there. But in the bigger picture watching on tv via pay tv is just as good. A club can make a big profit from matches and pay for it's operating costs if tv ratings are high even if the crowd is small. -A true sports fan, not all sydneysiders are as committed as you it is great to see. Most sydneysiders like me complain more and the NRL knows it is dealing with that that is why it has to be cautious without he 2 stadium option. But it may make all it's money out of pay tv so may not need worry about crowd figures.

The issue is also that these grounds are not used much at all. Even the small grounds in the EPL like Craven Cottage and Loftus Road get used at least 18 times per year for EPL home games. It is a huge investment to keep these grounds running and up to standard when they only get 12 games per year. And how many games sell out even these days? When the NRL is on the up and up.

I hate Manly and everything about them (sorry Johnno) but at the same time I know that I have to thank them. I am an Eels fan, this season I have dragged my brave family from Newcastle to Canberra, down to Kograh and everywhere in between. I can say without hesitation the worst ground for us (the supposed NRL target market) is stadium Australia, followed by the SFS. There are no large walkways to allow toddlers to toddle (which gives a few moments to watch the game) parking is almost a kilometer from the ground (requiring prams or bikes etc) and we have to pay triple for the privilidge, it is just plain stupid when I parked the same distance to Brookvale oval for free only a few weeks ago. Stadium Australia I pay $12-$20 (SFS $20-$25) in an automated car park 90% empty, I walk past Skoda stadium that my own State government put $45m into for a game that can only fill 10% of that stadium with a record crowd. To go to a stadium that is 20% full, further away from my car and my home than Parra stadium (yet this is a home game) to be more uncomfortable have less seating room and pay more for everything at, I just have never seen an upside to the NRL making more money. So Johnno, here is my little case study, please tell me what you think (tribalism aside). I went to Henson Park a few months back, the Jets play the Bears. In total I paid $35 for entry that, included me, my Mum, my wife and my son (aged 13months) with parking on the hill overlooking the ground so we did not have to walk anywhere. Food was less than 1/2 the price as was full strength beer but, for many having a good afternoon with mates, they just bought their esky along with them. We all bought a few tickets in the raffle and saw what was actually a well contested match between 2 sides that proved they could hold their own lines and demonstrate skills of an NRL quality because many r NRL players. The reality is though I will never stop loving the Eels and hating Manly but at the moment I am green with envy of you who do not have to put up with being dictated to by the NRL simply because you say no and refused to be bullied as a club a group and a community. As for me, no matter what the result of the Eels this season it looks like I have a few seasons ahead supporting the Bears until things r just more practical for me to go back to being pushed round and exploited by the NRL and other whom profit from it as I watch the one government that can help us spend my money on monuments to Victoria. The point is that as Child # 2 arrives for us the NRL becomes impossible, I would like to think myself a good loyal fan as I love my club I hate missing games, I buy everything Eels insight but as I am pushed bullied and squeezed into bigger more empty stadiums that give my family less space, demand more money from us (at a time that we r struggling) make us travel further to watch a team that I have loved since I was 3 get thumped by Melbourne (a cheating team that no one cares about and NEWS corp r about to dump) I almost start to envy Manly fans.

-Some facts. A hypothetical case study of me and many other sydneysiders -Example no 1 hypothetical -I am a Manly fan who lives at Manly on the northern beaches. -I am a couch potato no 1. I like things to be local and stay local. I am no way travelling over the spit bridge in traffic after working a 40 hour week . No way. I will only travel if it is in my backyard at brookvale. -Forget going to homebush or more park to watch NTH QLD. No way at at all . No chance zero chance. -That is what your dealing with with sydnysiders and sydney fans. We are a stubborn lot who like to keep things in our backyards and why should we travel we work hard all week, we want to relax on our weekends in peace and quite, and live in a quite place. -Not to be in traffic which is noisy and pollution on weekends. So keep it local much closer and more quite.

Good point about playing games when most people can get to games. I would like to see the number one ranked game of the round being played at 3 pm on sunday afternoon and shown live all over Australia on free to air, followed by the number 2 game being played on Sunday evening at 6 pm for a trial period, shown live on free to air in NSW and Qld, I know a 6pm Sunday game would rate very highly on TV, the number 3 game on Friday night shown live on free to air in NSW and Qld and the Number 4 game played at 7:30pm on Saterday night Shown live on free to air all over Australia and the 5th ranked rame played at 3 pm on Saterday afternoon shown live all over Australia on free to air. How does that sound?

Thanks Morotti. You maybe right about eventually moving to the bigger grounds. But I worry about the people on the North Shore not having a venue of their own.

Fingers crossed Nathan

Thanks Ray. Rugby League has been going for just over 100 years and local derbies have not really caught the imagination of the Sydney people in this period. It would be great to see 50,000 at a club match but I can't see it happening in the near future unless they play more games in time slots that allow people to get to the game.

Thanks for your comments mate. I agree with what you say but most cities around the world don't have a great big harbour cutting the city in two.

It makes a lot of sense to move to Rat Park to be honest. At least it keeps the Manly club on the Northern Beaches.

Thanks for your feed back Australian Rules. I left that point out on purpose because over 90 percent of Australian sporting teams do not own their home grounds. Cricket clubs, Lawn bowls club and some gold courses would be terrible if it wasn't for them putting their own money into keeping the grounds up to standard. Local government really don't do much except cut the grounds on a thursday or friday afternoon before weekend sport.