Carlton back in the AFL finals hunt

Brendan - As I said I corrected you on one word, let it go. On Hunt, if you want stats look at all the ones I have put up on other threads. He is supposed to be an inside Midfielder but only gets about 6 contested possessions a game and is at least 10th on the suns list and just beats Bryce Gibbs who is constantly criticised for not winning enough of his own ball. He only gets 2.6 clearances a game, again poor for an inside midfielder and lays 3.5 tackles a game again poor for an inside midfielder. Only 43% of his possessions are contested which makes a mockery of the claim he is doing the hard work and dishing it out to his lighter team mates. He is 19th of disposal efficiency at the suns despite only kicking about 1/3 of the time and next year will have at least 9 other midfielders better than him with another pre-season under their belts. The facts are he has to improve dramatically to hold his spot in a improving midfield and the only uninformed bias is yours. And if changing the topic to something completely irrelevant and wrong isn't a sign of being beaten then what is?

Seriously who do you think you are .Correcting grammar, incidentially im a qualified teacher, and spelling.You put some stupid article up about how the expansion sides are ruining the finals and after numerous posts when i suggest your just disenchanted over Carlton and looking elsewhere for fault you say i am beaten because i have changed tack.On numerous occasions i have dis-agreed with Ian Whitchurch but generally his contentions are supported by statistical evidence or web -sites rather than the rambling bias you provide.Everyone is entitled to there opinion but facts are facts and if you want my opinion on Karmicheal Hunt without doing a lot of research i think he has been fantastic and has improved game by game and has been a success.

Brendan - We have had 11 of them for the year and I think it is time you built a bridge over your issues with me pointing out your use of made up words. I never mention your spelling mistakes or lack of punctuation. If you want to weigh in though how about you point out why Hunt terrible stats fail to recognise his brilliance?

Let him have a win Brewski his footy team and there coach sure cant.Oh im sorry Macca for the grammatical errors only doing you a favor to keep your mind off the Blues.

Brewski - Quite clearly wrong Brewski - how on earth do you come up with that? Look at hunt's stats, they are ordinary, low possessions, low contested possessions, low tackle count, average disposal efficiency, high clanger rate, low clearances, low 1 percenters. I know stats can't show everything but christ when they are this clear you can't keep hiding behind the "it's the things you can't see line". So if I am wrong show me where! And you would want to be careful, those sort of comments would get you suspended in the AFL

Just a guess, but seeing you are so argumentative on here, when quite clearly you are wrong, i reckon your missus would wear the pants ? ...... come on Macca, be honest !.

Ian - Hunt handballs 2/3's of the time. Considering it is far easier to be "efficient" when handballing 74% is quite low, he is 15th for disposal efficiency at the club. Murphy on the other hand kicks the ball 56.8% of the time and gets double (13.13 compared with 6,4) the contested possessions a game hunt does which will lead to less efficiency. You should stop trying to isolate 1 good stat for Karmichael and look at them all together, he doesn't get a lot of it, he does get a lot of contested ball, he doesn't tackle a lot, he doesn't get a lot of clearances, he doesn't gain them a lot of metres, he doesn't score many goals and his disposal efficiency is only about average despite the fact he doesn't kick the ball much. And Ian Hunt has 41 clangers in his 264 possessions, Murphy has 33 clangers from his 401, so 15% of Hunts possessions are clanger but only 8% of Murphy's are, for the importance of this you should look at the Carlton Suns game on Saturday night. I am aware of Carlton disposal issues in the Suns game hence my comment above "And while the Suns won, the blues beat them in contested possession, tackles, clearances, total disposals, inside 50′s and scoring shots. It wasn’t the blues being soft that lost them the game it was turnovers and poor goal kicking (plus losing Mcinnes didn’t help)."

Macca, The point about 'disposal efficiency' clearly went past you. Hunt has a disposal efficiency of 74%, which is pretty good by AFL standards - its better than Marc Murphy's 70%. As to why disposal efficiency is important, watch the last quarter of the Gold Coast-Carlton game. http://www.smartreplay.afl.com.au/?round=1106&match=10342206&videoQuality=high

Again Ian, completely missing the point. Even if the blues had made the finals they weren't going to be even the same quality as they were the year before with some key defenders missing. None of the finalists are. And while the Suns won, the blues beat them in contested possession, tackles, clearances, total disposals, inside 50's and scoring shots. It wasn't the blues being soft that lost them the game it was turnovers and poor goal kicking (plus losing Mcinnes didn't help). And on the list clogger Hunt, kicking the winning goal and winning a gmae off your own boat are 2 completely different things. And from memory there were a couple of other Suns players in that same spot. But what ever you say about the nature of the win the Factts remain, play Hunt and win one from 18, dump Hunt and get someone who can play in their and win 2 from 3. You still haven't answered how hunt can be doing all the hard work for the team and have such poor contested ball, clearance and 1 percenter stats?

Macca, So, which quality finals did Gold Coast deny the AFL when they knocked a soft Carlton out of the finals ? Regarding Hunt ... a win. Which he won off his own boot. After the siren. After beating his man by leading to the perfect spot.

So that is another thing you aren’t too good at Ian, taking the p*ss, I’ll put that up with answering direct questions and supporting your argu ments with fact. And again the article was discussing the quality of teams in the finals, if anyone can make the case they are the same or higher quality than the previous seasons good luck to them. Oh and by the way have you noticed that your Man Karmichael played 18 games this year for 1 win, he has missed the last 3 and the suns have won 2 of them, it’s amazing what happens when you get the list cloggers out of the side,

Smithy - I beg to differ on the statement "that's what coaches do" - coaches plan and strategise. And were you in the room, did you see what Ratten did? I played a lot of country football and had numerous coaches and saw many variation of the same basic rev up spray, it never worked on me. Somebody else trying to tell me how important winning was for some reason or another was just a waste of time, winning was important because that is why you play. If a player at AFL level couldn't figure out that the blues needed to win on Saturday night then I question whether they should be at AFL level. If anyone should be taking resposibility it is the leadership group and Judd, Judd is the one that gives them the final message before the ball is bounced, the leadership group are the ones who upon seeing the second and third goal sail through should of been getting around the players and switching them on.

Chris, Im just taking the piss out of Macca's whiny article.

Macca that's what coaches do. It's their job. I've seen Fremantle lose many games like the weekend's. Hell, historically, we would have lost to Richmond the previous week. The crucial difference in these sort of games - where mental application is paramount - is the role of the coach and coaching group to keep the playing group focused and on task. In the bubble, in Lyon-speak. Unlike Lyon, it was clear that Ratten and co. failed to properly address the context of the Suns game and get the players focused. Sure, they threw around stuff like 'we won't be complacent' and 'we respect the opposition', but they did not drill down and address the players as people, and prepare them mentally for what was required. Carlton lost the game well before the opening bounce, probably somewhere between Melbourne and the Gold Coast.

Smithy - I didn't see the game so commenting is a bit hard but I would just say this, why do players need a coach to get them mentally switched on before a game where a win is not only essential but a percentage boost is also required? Ratten would of discussed (I am confident of this because he alluded to it in the press conference afterwards) the need to put Gold Coast down hard early, get them out of the contest by quarter time but the players didn't respond. At the end of the day the blues won more possessions, got more contested possessions, laid more tackles, went inside 50 more often and had more scoring shots but couldn't kick goals and apparently turned the ball over too much, the coach can do a lot of things but he can't kick the ball for you.

The contrast in mental preparation between the Blues and Freo to their games this weekend was astounding. That's a coaching issue for me. Lyon was smart enough to speak to the players about the Suns win, rather than ignore it. By talking it through and addressing them as real people, he was able to the prepare them mentally and shift their focus to the Roos. By contrast, Ratten failed to have his players ready for the opening bounce. It's always been a game played between the ears.

BeeBee, Coulda sworn that was a sunrise, not a sunset ... but in any case, it denies the AFL some quality finals.

Sunset was unusual this afternoon. Very Dark Blue.

Thanks Chris. Either way it looks unlikely the blues will go to Perth if they get 8th as North should make up a lot of percentage. I made a call early in the year that as Carlton had lost a final in Brisbane, Sydney and Perth in the last 3 years they must be on track to lose a tight one in Adelaide this year, the way things are shaping up it is a possibility.