Wallabies lack a genuine number 10

There's an old saying in American Football that "if a team has 2 quarterbacks, then they don't have a quarterback" It essentially means that if there is ANY debate, then neither of them is actually up to the key skill position in the NFL. It's the same here - we are debating about a bunch of guys who are good but don't DEMAND selection like Ella, Lynagh, Fox, Wilkinson etc. It is also noted in the NFL that no team wins without a great QB. Same problem with the Wallabies........JOC is the only standout and they shoudl throw him in as soon as he is able.

Cooper has the best pass in the game when hes on song and can rip open any backline.As long as Cooper comes to NZ he will always be heckled,Why?Just for the hell of it. I think he is a great player and just needs the support around him. Confidence starts with the Coach and Captain and if thats missing it will carry on through the team.Have yous got any Mongrels in the forwards?Is there any one of them that will have a biff if things get nasty? Im an All Black Supporter and hope we continue beating the Wallabies but its alot better when there is a battle going on.

I agree with you Dave, its the team culture that has so much influence on the player. Look at what is happening now at the Brumbies. I think we should be patient and for now accept that the all blacks are too good. Liafano should be our next no 10, I predict he will have a cracker next year and lead the wallabies to some special things, provided that whoever is coaching has the guts to pick a few more brumbies and reds players, even if they are younger and less experienced. Time to shed the dead wood and give the younger guys a shot, and hopefully we can have an ace team by the 2015 WC.

isnt that the point though spencer? if you can applaud his "wins" then surely others can decry his "losses". i know you guys love to spout on about being "positive" etc, but whats wrong with being honest?

surely there is a vast differnce between the definitons of mongrel and niggle. and thats my point, dexter. nigglers who shirk the tough stuff are always derided. to claim otherwise is nonsense. i classify myself as a niggler but i also dont mind mixing it with the big boys and throwing my considerable (80kgs when wet!!) weight around. this gets you respect. if you dont understand why this is the reason that real rugby players think he is a bit of a muppet, then i dont know what to say. again, you admit to playing sport for most of your life and you honestly are trying to say that a little cheap shot merchant is what gets respect from the opposition or his own teammates!! i have never experienced that before or come across anyone who finds that kind of thing "positive". thankfully, these kind of hit and run players are few and far between. i wonder why? im all for quade fronting up when it really counts (like in a tackle) and showing the required mongrel, but trying a couple of little cheap shots off the ball is something different entirely and doesnt show much in the way of "balls"if you like. i believe, as most do, that he has the ability and size to front up, but doesnt have the right mindset for it.

so he's also got to be the vice captain to be any good? we've got a captain and a vc, lets just let him get on with being a 10.

if only he was a doer

Dave fantastic response, totally agree, great in depth analysis. I have often seen and wrote about how Cooper reminds me a lot of Larkham both in his skills, talent strengths and weaknesses. Larkham was NEVER hobbled to play such a poor game plan or unsuitable to his skills as Cooper had to in the RWC. Larkham even had bad matches. Larkham lost many a game in the wet due to not being able to adapt to that style in the mud up north yet he was never demonised.

Post and Uncle - you are both correct. We should not be discussing 10 today,especially a 10 who has not played a test all year. There is an empty jersey in wallaby colours ATM . It does not have a number on it but it is probably less than 9. It has a nick name - G-DAM Game -Deciding Aussie Mongrel.

Of course, Tameifuna just walked right up to McCaw at a lineout in the final and gave him a big shove. Of course, if you're going to pull that kind of stuff, you've got to back it up with a performance like the Chiefs did.

You'll have to show me where I said that Cooper is as good as Larkham, because I must have blacked out when I wrote that. What I DID say is that the claim that Cooper can never be a great player because he didn't save the Wallabies in the World Cup is too harsh. If the loss was squarely on him, fair enough, but it wasn't. Also, it's clear that his injury has seen him mature a bit and I hope it is the making of him.

SM I did not say anything about Quades ability in following through with pure aggression. You are just adding to the vocab of mongrel by using niggle. He is a flyhalf and if the best he can do is "niggle" I will take it as a positive. I have played sport all my life and niggle has its part on the field. Your opinion is that QC niggle is a negative, but I see it very much as a positive. LAS timing of this article is simply bad, he can opine as much as he likes and I can comment as I see fit. so FO SM.

LAS - really disappointed with your article. I don't remember you being so vindictive, or exhibiting such poor judgement. Did your dog die? Some stats for you to ponder WRT Quade Copper. QC v Boks 5 wins/ 7 matches. QC v NZders 2/4 (5?). Overall test win ratio 70%. Now if you find me another 10 with such a record in the past 3 years, then you can sprout you opinion. Check Morne Styne v Wallabies. Really not happy with your "contribution". Tony Shaw needs to take you behind the sheds "ya traitoris mongrel" ;)

What a load of rubbish!!!!! McCaw and Carter made 24 out of 24 tackles in the first Bled. Australia will never dominate the All Blacks while those two continue to do the basics so god damn beautiful. Cruden is not even a proven player at international level let alone a door mat on Carter as a proven defender. Not just Cruden but Cooper should not even be mentioned in the same paragraph as Carter ever!!!!!

Hey LAS Agree on never comparing Wilko with Larkham. Two entirely different players - Wilko behind a great cohesive team in RWC & thereafter playing NH tests. Forget his Lion's contribution. Larkham bloodied & bowed against BEST IN WORLD in SH where he showed exciting skills I'll go so far as to pay a dollar for every time Wilko broke gain line & you give me same for every time Bernie did I'll give you my bank to send money to S T

well that seemed to be exactly what you were bagging him for (how many unforced knock ons or kicks out on the full did he actually make) but yes he didnt have a good world cup. not many aussie payers did. there were particularly difficult circumstances for him which he didnt perform well under (circumstances which were pretty unprecedented for a rugby player - even if ur of the opinion it was his own fault). if his career before that was at that level then he wouldnt be getting a look in now but it wasnt. if the rest of his career is at that level then he wont be remembered as a good player. we'll see.

I think Cooper is being unfairly judged here. I'm certainly not his biggest fan. but he's generally been surrounded by outside backs totally off his wavelength, and directed by a coach who is close to tactically inept. I'd wager that Graham Henry would have got far more out of Cooper than Deans has managed to date.

It's not just the WC semi-final though. Both times that England have beaten Australia recently Cooper's defence has bordered on the cowardly. That said, I recall him putting in some strong defensive performances at 12 during the end of season Tests a few seasons ago, and being impressed by his willingness to hit, so I guess it's a mental thing.

Am with you Behold; I put Lealiifano way above Foley. I actually dont see what is the fuss about him. The guy hasnt shown anything at SR level proving he is a wallaby 10 in the making. Lealiifano was the best aussie FH till he got injured by a mile and would have had a shot v Scotland or Wales (only Goosen was better/more creative in this year's SR imo). On the other hand, i disagree about what you say re Beale at n10 with the Rebels this season. I actually think he did more than ok. QC, then Beale and Lealiifano would be my top 3, then JOC and Toomua.

LAS, I've posted before that I think Quade has the ability to become a superstar. But he needs to pick up his behaviour off the field in order to shine on the field. Unfortunately, he's been a bit of a goose and much of the flack he has faced is as a result of conduct that just attracts criticism. He also seems to lack support or guidence. (a mentor) He brought the WC attacks on himself with his big mouth. With the right guidence he could have gone over to NZ with a plan of winning the public over. But rather he goaded the public which did neither himself or the team any favours. NZ respects and recognizes talent. Quade could have left NZ as a highly respected opponent. Many of you younger Roarers will not remember Mike Gibson the British Lion. He was such a talent and everyone could see he was a good person with it, that for many years after his rugby trips to NZ he was described as one of the best players to leave NZ. Where does that leave Quade? Well, Sonny-Bill learned (particularly this year) that he didn't need to make a spectacular play every time he got the ball. Once he got that, his game improved in leaps and bounds to now where I think he is on the brink of superstardom. Quade has to learn the same. But I think he has grown so much this year that clearly in the limited game time he has had he has demonstrated a similar trait to SBW of not trying to do too much. Two things he now needs. It's not smart to publically criticize the Head Coach (couldn't understand Robbie's game plan.) Actually, many of us couldn't understand either, but we're not relying on Robbie to pick us. Secondly, not everyone can be Dan Carter, but one thing about Dan is he's humble . Oh, that Quade could have that characteristic. So hear it is. I think Quade has grown considerably this year. i think his game has matured. He has real talent and could become one of the best fly halfs ever. He seems to have accepted that he needs to tackle and will do so. The teams he plays for seem to grow markedly in confidence when he is on the field. I think he has learned to pick the time of when to have a go. I hope he can work on and improve his public image. With all of that you could have anothet superstar in Australian rugby.