There is a self-perpetuating myth among some Australian rugby supporters, quite noticeable here on The Roar, that Australia just doesn’t have good enough players to be number one in the rugby union world.
While fickle, defeatist attitudes from ‘supporters’ is nothing new, this mantra is now sadly embraced by the Wallaby coach and has been instilled into the Wallaby players.
The Wallabies no longer believe they are good enough to win. As Wayne Smith put it, “At the moment Australia are beating themselves before they have even run onto the pitch.”
It is far too simplistic when discussing ‘cattle’ to say, “When you compare the All Blacks and the Wallabies you would only get one or two Australian players in a combined starting XV.” The All Blacks play as a team, and players in a good team make those around them appear better – they boost each other’s performance.
What makes a team good is the ability to combine the talent that is available into something that is greater than the sum of their parts. The ‘parts’ available to make up a Wallaby team are of a high enough quality to topple the All Blacks, what is missing is the correct management (ARU and coach) of the team and the application of the team (coach and players) on the field.
I know some of you will be sceptical that the Wallabies have good enough players (and I certainly agree the injury list at the moment contains a lot of the best players and the injury toll should afford the Wallabies some leeway at evaluation time), but I believe we do have the cattle – here is a run-down of forwards at our disposal.
Front Row
Australia actually has three complete front rows that can compete internationally. Holmes-Moore-Palmer are the strongest all-around unit with good scrummaging and high work rate; Robinson-Polota-Nau-Kepu are a slightly stronger set piece unit that offer a reduced work rate (although Robinson has noticeably lost form); and Slipper-Hanson-Ryan are a serviceable front rank with good work around the park.
The fact that looseheads Slipper and Holmes and tightheads Ryan and Kepu both play for the same province is an issue that the ARU and the Wallaby coach should be intervening in, but it doesn’t change the fact the talent is there.
Second Row
Vickerman is retired and Sharpe should be considered retired when discussing the locks, but Simmons-Horwill is a strong locking combination. Horwill led the pick-and-drive statistics for Australian players for weeks after his injury and Simmons is a tailor-made replacement for Sharpe as a lineout forward (I think the Wallabies are yet to lose a throw this year with him on the park).
Douglas and Timani are both big men that have a lot of potential, although lacking in the lineout. Similarly Pyle and Neville are raw but progressing fast. Although pairing one Waratah lock with one Rebel lock produces two decently balanced second rows, I personally believe Timani should play as a ball-carrying number eight instead and would prefer him or Palu to leave the Waratahs to make this happen. Wallace-Harrison and Fardy are both solid journeymen who won’t disappoint if called upon to cover injury at international level.
Back Row
Samo should be considered retired for the purposes of this discussion. The Wallabies have no problems at no.7 with Pocock, Hooper and Gill all international-standard fetchers, whoever adds enough to their game to emulate George Smith or Ritchie McCaw will be the eventual first pick.
At no.6, both Hodgson and Schatz are hard working on-the-ball flankers, who have the ability to shift around the back row to cover 7 or 8 off the bench. Higginbotham is not suited to no.8 but is a good point of difference flanker at blindside; the problem is that his international appearances have always been better off the bench as an impact forward, and his wide ranging game means the rest of the pack has to compensate for his low ruck involvement rate. He is still a good addition to the team but requires proper management and planning to utilise him effectively. Dennis is a decent lineout flanker but doesn’t appear to offer enough at international level.
At no.8, Australia definitely has a problem. Palu is it and he is made of glass. This part of the reason I think Sitaleki Timani should be converted into an eightman. I know there are fans of Lopeti Timani but he is not even close to ready yet, nor is the promising young McCaffrey from the Force. Mowen and McCalman are both journeymen eights who won’t really offer enough at international level but could be used to cover an injury shortage.
While you can’t just throw any combination of these players together and have them work as a forward pack, there are sufficient quality options to be an effective team if selected, trained and managed properly.
It isn’t the cattle. These players are good enough to get the job done.
It is what is being done with the cattle that is the problem with the Wallabies.
Red Kev
Guest
Yeah your mum was lonely and wanted a conjugal visit so they let me out.
bennalong
Guest
Absolutely correct Dan I'm sorry Red Kev, but essentially you're bitter that Deans hasn't filled the Wallabies with Reds so you've constructed an argument that it's all his fault I don't think the situation is as disastrous as I did when we lost...........twice.....because it's a bloody game and things happen Your argument lists so many injured players I can't get how you fail to see that the team hasn't had any real continuity. We DO have the cattle IF there aren't too many injuries. We DON'T have the cattle to cover each position twice as the Kiwi's do (sort of) We need to get behind the team, smash the Boks and hope heaps of All Blacks are taken out by a vindictive god for October
bennalong
Guest
Thanks Uncle Those bloody All Blacks aren't so good !
Calcio
Guest
Must be Red Kev's week out of the asylum.
kiwiinperth
Guest
First I will apologize for my spelling and punctuation in advance...but get my two pence (showing my age) in anyway. On selection, yes there are better players out there, why anyone thought the Waratahs front row would be competitive is beyond me, BUT can anyone confirm how free is Deans in selection policy, Can he for instance select a player who is not paid by the ARU in place of a player who is, somwhow I dont think so, and that may limit is options more than you think. On another point given that there is an abundance of world class 7's in Australia, why havent they tried any of them at 8?
Jutsie
Guest
Just read on planet rugby forums that S FInger is on standy by and moore is going in for scans on a strained hamstring, how does s. finger continue to get selected?
Sage
Guest
I generally agree with you RKev and well written by the way too. As a carry on from Spiro's article on Saturday the Deans saga has a while to drag on yet. Spiro inferred I was a xenophobe for not wanting Deans and now you're part of a lynch mob from a 40's western with respect to you sheek. I agree it isn't all about the cattle and I think Rugby Fans analogy is a very tidy summation of the situation. It is all getting a bit hysterical but it is simple - to me anyway. I have always liked Robbie Deans. I've said so here a number of times and I don't give a toss about his ethnicity - regardless of how poor it may be (:) He hasn't performed as coach...........and that's about it folks. End of story. Poor selections - in fact dumbfounding selections, poor bench use, no (apparent) clear game plan, but most of all for me, I have never seen our skills and attitude so bad. I was expecting something, anything, after our 3-5 week prep for the first Bledisloe and all the talk of fitness work etc so the thoughts of a fired up fit WB's hitting that first ruck like Suncorp last year I thought was a reasonable expectation. What was dished up was clumsy, unfit, insipid tripe. I ask myself if in that same situation if a different coach like J White for instance would have made any difference over those 3-5 weeks. The answer is a resounding yes for me. Not because Robbie is a Kiwi, but because he's been given ample time and it just hasn't worked.
JIM
Guest
Your right Link seems to prefer mobility to scrummaging. Which I think you can definately afford at Super level. The Reds won a title last year with a scrum that never dominated and was often going backwards. It relies on a great halfback and a good No 8 to get the ball out of a backpeddling scrum. The other thing the reds did to manage their scrum weakness was do everything they could to minimise the number of scrums. So, no kicking the ball away and realising that when your opponent can, they will take the scrum. There are competeing approaches. Some would argue you have to be good at everything. There is a very good argument that suggests that sometimes you need to acknowledge a weakness, manage it and focus on other positives that outweight it. Last year, with a scrum that often went backwards, not too many sides dominated the reds in the loose - thanks in part to the mobility and workrate of Daly. In my mind he should be on the bench and brought on with 25 to play where his mobility, pick and drive, defensive work can shine.
Ryan
Guest
Harbour are absolutely woeful and I'm not sure how much this bloke will actually learn from playing with them this year.
Max Power
Guest
Speaking of young Australian props playing in the ITM Cup has anyone seen how Pingi Talaapitaga has gone for Bay of Plenty this season?
Brett McKay
Expert
Yeah, he has had on op actually, though I was coming from a more general angle anyway. I do take your point about top-down co-operation for such a move though, and sure, we probably haven't seen that since Rob McQueen came up with the idea of playing a Brumbies fullback at flyhalf back in the day.. Also, on Fardy, the beard is no more.......
Red Kev
Guest
See there's a typo right there "both" instead of "bother"
Red Kev
Roar Guru
Liam, I am perfectly willing to accept different points of view, I'll post that I disagree with them though. What I have no intention of accepting is someone who doesn't contribute at all to the discussion (there is not one word in that post that addresses the premise or detail of the article) and posts that: "you are not only defeatist & pessimistic & probably a coward to boot, but you are probably a double-headed, in-bred Tasmanian to boot". If someone said that to you in a pub, you'd punch them. Quite frankly considering what I was put on moderation for I am disgusted that the Roar mods let posts like that stand. I'll leave the discussion there.
Red Kev
Roar Guru
There are more than 75 spelling and capitalisation errors in there (I didn't even both counting punctuation), in only 262 words. I don't mind dot points, I don't mind typos, but that would be unacceptable from a 5th grader. And not one of those points is "damned fine". It is rant aimed at Australian players that is in various parts factually incorrect, wide of the mark and just plain silly.
Justin2
Guest
There has been so much reasoned argument as to why Deans should go. His supporters have not critiqued his coaching at all and can't tell you what is good or bad. What they can tell you is that they are not part of the lynch mob and that they are clearer in thought because of this. That's just posturing rubbish and taking some moral high ground because they don't have the ability to debate the subject matter. If they could, then at some point they would. Others label people racists and call it journalism. It's a joke but it's not a funny one...
Red Kev
Roar Guru
It's a fair bit better looking than me in reality which is why I use it :)
Justin2
Guest
Shop you won't get much argument from me. The defensive LO has been a joke with the lack of competing, especially with a thrower who can be put under pressure like KM.
Shop
Roar Guru
J2 That was something I couldn't believe in the first test. Some of the AB's throw ins barely made it to the jumper yet they still won because we NEVER had anyone competing. Who decision is this? If it was a team that I caoched, I'd blame myself. I think Red Kev has probably overexagerated our talent a little, but that doesn't take away from the main point that the team is playing way below their potential. The person in charge of this is no one other than the head coach and it is high time that all the Deans' appologists realise this. He hasn't got the best out of the "cattle", otherwise losses to Scotland Samoa and Ireland would never have happened. I've never seen Deans' Wallabies come out after half time with a renewed game plan or more energetic - something he DOES have a direct input into. He has to go.
jeznez
Roar Guru
Markus, I fully agree that I think Saffy's best position will be 7. I do wonder about your SA years comment though, are you talking about his play up to the under 14's? He moved to Oz at the age of 15
jeznez
Roar Guru
ps most of Baxter and Dunnings caps were awarded at the Tahs under Link and the guy still plays Daly - McKenzie likes mobility in his front row. He doesn't neccesarily pick his best scrummagers. Although I am enthused that Holmes is pretty much playing LHP and that Hanson is getting plenty of time these days.