Does Melbourne deserve two A-League teams?

On the topic of expansion I think there's two sides One is that the league needs more clubs to avoid the league stagnating and create more oportinities for young players etc, as well as appeal to new markets around the country. The other side is that the leagues current 10 clubs aren't exactly prospering. If the league were to expand soon I'd say Wollongong and Canberra have to be near the best candidates for me As a QLDer I think Townsville could work but requires a more mature and patient approach from the league. For me it's a crucial market to break into, the NRL and AFL are doing big things up there but there's a really strong football history along with the ethnic history up there so it'd be a shame to lose NQ It's always baffled me how the GC continues to fail to support franchises. It's got the population, plenty of people play sport up there and plenty of talent comes out of the GC It is a transient place but the fact that even an NRL team finds it tricky is crazy

Failure of an article... Melbourne Victory represents Victoria as a whole (victory, victoria - blue and white [victorian flag colours]) Melbourne Heart represents the "HEART" of Melbourne (i.e. the city, Melbourne itself - rename it to Melbourne City Heart if you have to). How do I know this? Their strip is Red and White - that of the Flag of the City of Melbourne. Some of you people don't know how to look into the finer details that represent teams. This isn't the NSL where Greeks are one club and Macedonians are another, we live in 2013 now. It's like saying what distinguishes Manchester United from Manchester City. Nothing. In this case, Victory = United, Heart = City. Flogs.

Perhaps calling it North Melbourne Heart and moving to the Broadmeadows area would work, Broadie is lower middle class with a certain demographic and a sense of location even if just in the self-mocking sense of T-shirts you can buy saying "London Paris New York Broadie". There is a lot of land out there and fewer ethnic ex-NSL clubs with a historical claim to the region (unlike in the west where Melbourne Knights / Melbourne Croatia is based in Sunshine North).

Melbourne completely deserve 2 teams. Just the FFA have to swallow there pride and allow STH Melbourne back into the A-league. They have not been called Hellas since 1996, they are for more mainstream now. They are known as STH Melbourne FC, they have a lot of pride, the most successful club in Oceania ever. And real passion and history,. With getting an A-league licence now, and in the modern world that is 2012, they would be a massive hit if say there allowed to enter the A-league in say 2014-15 season. They offer far than the Melbourne Heart could ever offer. A proud history, real passion and dedicated supporters, a good ability to attract corporate support, they would be fine. I think the FFA are just scared that there major project in Melbourne , the VIctory could be less popular than the old NSL STH Melbourne Hellas. STH Melbourne FC, a great blue jersey too, would be a massive hit, a club that oozes serious passion and excitement. The STH Melbourne FC VS Victory local derby would be massive. The Heart just doesn't do it for me and many others for so many reasons. STH Melbourne is like the West Sydney Wanderers , it just feels natural , and it feels right. The NTH QLD FUry and the Heart just don't feel natural to me. I think if the Fury had marketed themselves as Townsville Fury , not NTH Qld Fury they would of done better. As NTH QLD is so big land area and population, Cairns, Mackay etc, it's not just Townsville, NTH QLD has a few major regional towns and identities. In the NBL there are 2 NTH QLD teams, Townsville crocodiles and, Cairns taipans. I believed in the Fury but as Townsville Fury not as NTH QLD. So yes STH Melbourne should be next expansion team, and I'd give up on the Heart. And Canberra or Wollongong or a 2nd Adelaide team are next options. Adelaide city or west Adelaide would be a hit to from the old NSL clubs. And the Northern spirit were a hit for a while , i wouldn't fully discount a team on sydney's north shore, a good enough stadium in North sydney oval, big enough and good public transport etc . But yes STH Melbourne have to come back and they would be like west sydney, it just feels natural, and it feels right, and they have big time potential.

The Heart CEO says that the club made a small profit last year on player sales and expects to break even this year. That sounds like a club that has control of its costs. Clearly then, if that is true then the club doesn't rely on a full AAMI Park for it's financial health. Of course a full AAMI Park is good for the club's sporting health. The club now has 6000 members and that reflects a steady if not spectacular growth against an established club. What does the club stand for? What does any club stand for? As Simon Hill says, its a sporting club not a political movement nor is it a brand that requires repositioning. If you don't like the club for whatever reason then don't support it, the same as any other club. This thread seems to be full of MV fans who want Heart out of Melbourne ASAP. It may be worthwhile reflecting that a strong Heart helps to sustain a strong Victory and vice versa, we are more like rivalrous siblings rather than enemies and we need to unite in a common cause to attract people from outside football to our game. We have a market here of 4 million, is anyone seriously suggesting that only 1 club can thrive in a market that size? The NSL clubs had their chance and failed to appeal to a wider audience. Some of the reasons for that were well out of their control, but some of the reasons were their own making: whilst their strength was the NSL's cultural diversity, there was a wide perception (accurate or not) that supporters outside the correct ethnic background were not welcome. This was reinforced by a minority of fans and clubs that saw football as a chance to continue ethnic tensions, this also drove away ordinary football fans. I really hope that the old NSL clubs earn another chance through a promotion/relegation system in the future, I'm sure that many will see this as an opportunity to approach the opportunity differently although the recent VPL final suggests that any opportunity may come too soon for some who see themselves as supporters. In any case removing a club that is crucial to the success of the game in the second largest market in the country is just daft.

Peter the word ironic could then be easily explained.. you'd have a team called Celtic playing in green and white hoops that you would identify as having some Scottish influence playing a derby game against a team that have the music of the Scottish anthem as their club song.. :).. and all of that in Melbourne Australia..:).. and in a competition that tried to dragged it self away from multiculturalism, this is exactly why killing of clubs with strong foundations in a fledgling league was such a mistake!!!!!

Peter, as of this week Heart has 6000 members

ON a lighter note maybe the Heart need to embrace their inner greeness and become Melbourne Celtic? (green and white hoops) It would give the club a stronger identity.

I'll second Betty's thoughts. I'm a new convert to soccer and have never followed Victory. So the Heart has been successful at attracting new members. If you look at Derby numbers there are at least 44,000 people interested in soccer in Melbourne. Maybe half of these regularly attend matches. The problem is getting people to go to all the matches, not just the big derbies. Scheduling IS an issue - no more 5.30 starts please. The Melbourne derby is like an AFL grand final. No lack of passion from either side. Maybe Heart lacks a little identity but have always felt that Victory lacked identity as well. That will come over time with rand finals and continued rivalry. The Heart is only 4,000 members from a reasonable regular supporter base. The trick is simply to get teh irregular supporters to sign up as members and get them along to games. As for a change of name I wouldn;t mind 'Heart of Melbourne' or failing that the Heart of Camberwell. This would firmly give us an Eastern suburbs identity.

Ballymore's posting of the Simon Hill article shows the gulf that now exists between old world thinking of László Ürge of SBS and the modern ways of Simon Hill and Fox Sports, thank God for the modern way. Thanks to Ballymore for posting this elsewhere...good pick up. http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/despite-naysayers-damning-melbourne-heart-things-have-never-looked-better-writes-fox-sports-simon-hill/story-e6frf4gl-1226538514595#.UM7LwXdjPSg

Great Line from Simon Hill in his reasoning that MHT just need time: Heart apparently "lack identity". They don't "stand" for anything. Huh? Are they a football club or a political party? This is not 1930s revolutionary Europe, where regions are fighting for autonomy - it's 21st century Australia." Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/despite-naysayers-damning-melbourne-heart-things-have-never-looked-better-writes-fox-sports-simon-hill/story-e6frf4gl-1226538514595#ixzz2FIDl0n5Z

I assume we've all moved on from this article but a thoughtful piece by Simon Hill never the less. http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/despite-naysayers-damning-melbourne-heart-things-have-never-looked-better-writes-fox-sports-simon-hill/story-e6frf4gl-1226538514595

yes Kasey the brisbane bombers was an option. james covered it pretty well. not sure the latest on what the NRL's expansion plans were. i'd think QLD can handle another team especially somewhere between brisbane and/or ipswich. central qld is an option but sometimes the massive distance and geographical location can play a part in QLD. i've always liked the idea of another team in perth. (ala western reds who were there for a couple of seasons in 1995 - for about as long as the crushers. think the western reds folded for different reasons).

Kasey, that is right. the NRL was looking at another team for expansion but they were choosing between 4 or 5 different options. one was brisbane bombers - (with that name they surely cannot be picked), a central QLD team possibley based in Rockhampton but needing a new stadium built, a team in Ipswich, maybe a team from Papua New Guinea and then a team from Perth. Brisbane should be able to have two teams however broncos are entrenched. and the broncos don't represent north, south or west brisbane, just brisbane broncos. ipswich is a good option as paul says, and i consider perth has a good following for league.

oopsie daisy my error (:

tc did you use a calculator or your fingers to tally the 235 responses

Congratulations to jamesb for managing 235 responses. It just goes to show that when we sit down to discuss issues calmly and rationally, we can achieve a lot. TC

I am a new Melbourne Heart supporter as is my family and friends- and im sure we're not alone. We were never Victory supporters so in terms of cannabalising into Victory supporter base please get your facts straight before making such comments. Also obviously the first club in melbourne would have generated a load more supporters than any team coming into the same area later. Its not to say there shouldnt be two teams - its great to have the competition and the derby's are fantastic....also be reminded of the results of the last few derbys!!!! that says it all!!!

Agree Joe. So why can't Heart get an identity? Why are they not the Inner City team. Like the Tigers. Victory take the North. SMFC take the South. I am going to presume to know the answer here. But correct me if anyone from Melbourne knows otherwise. The Victory got a head start in a big market and would be silly to limit their supporter base to the Nth Melbourne region when they already managed to develop a huge base in not just Melbourne but all of Victoria. (They aint called the VIC-tory for nothing.) All the clubs have come out of thin air. Some have obscure links to various weird places but essentially they were new entities. That was the point. Heart need to find their Heart and soul. I am sure they will in time.

Zach, they are Australian, we want them to be proud of that. I have English heritage and come from Brisbane but I don't go to Suncorp waving an orange Union Jack and being grumpy that my club has Dutch heritage. Thats the point. Or am I missing the point. The Brisbane roar are Orange because they were once Bisbane Lions and were based in Richlands in an area that had Dutch migrants. But they don't serve stroodle and heiniken and Suncorp (although it would be an improvement on 4x Gold and stale chips for $99.95.) My point is SMFC may have a Greek past. But in the future they will be a club for all with Greek heritage. Doesn't that just fill you with warm fuzziness. Like a good souvlaki or a nice apple stroodle on a chilly winters night.