Years ago the Wallaby’s doctor, Dr John Best, like his name one of the best in the business, told me that when he started he asked the players to put all the pills, vitamins, capsules, supplements and so they were taking on a table in front of him.
The table was quickly covered with lotions and potions of every shape and colour. Dr Best very quickly stopped the players from taking anything or any treatment that was not a 100 per cent approved and legitmate. Anything the players took had to come to Dr Best for his approval.
This estimable attitude has prevailed, it seems to me, in Australian rugby since then.
If you look on the ARU’s website you’ll find an article, an injunction essentially, titled: Anti-Doping: Get Educated. The article gives players, coaches and administrators access to the ASADA e-learning program, a core of six 15-minutes modules available to ‘those who want to be a Pure Performance Supporter.’
This sort of initiative builds on the work of sports doctors like Dr Best and is a justified reaction to those dreadful times when the doping efforts in East European countries (and later in countries like the USA) contaminated the Olympic sports, and then other major sports like cycling, baseball and gridiron.
The vigilance against doping in contact sports like rugby union, rugby league and Australian Rules Football is an obvious given. We have seen, say, in rugby the size of the players and their speed increase significantly since professionalism started in 1996.
The bigger and faster the players the more intense the collisions. Sir Clive Woodward, the coach of the 2003 England Rugby World, told me that some of the collisions on a rugby field have the force of a major car crash.
Within the last 10 years there were rumours of some star players (not in Australia or New Zealand) using creatine to bulk up their generally frail frames into a wiryness that made them competitive in Test rugby.
There are extensive testing programs in Tests and in the RWC tournaments. A handful of players have been caught out. There now has to be an unforgiving attitude to those who breach the guidelines and practices.
The reaction to the Australian Crime Commission’s revelation of a couple of leading players has been encouraging, in that it shows that the players seem to have got the message that you don’t meddle with products of dubious origin and intention.
Quade Cooper, for instance, makes the point that ‘if you take anything like that (supplements) in your mouth, it is at your own risk … For me, it is not worth taking something that could jeopardise my whole career.’ Well said!
And Drew Mitchell, like Cooper, a player who has had his share of injuries: ‘Once guys … go outside the team recommendations … that’s when it starts getting a little blurred … We’re well educated in that sense. Ignorance is not acceptable.’
And Tim Horan, a Wallaby hero who played a blinder in the semi-final of the 1999 RWC tournament against the Springboks with an upset stomach and a piece of toast for sustenance (no pills or supplements!), has put out this tweet: ‘What’s going on with drugs in sports these days? What about taking BHW tablets #BloodyHardWork.’
I read recently that professional cycling was one of the biggest sports in Sydney at the beginning of the 19th century, drawing huge crowds to its events and getting massive coverage in the local newspapers. But when it became clear that race-fixing and drug-taking were rampant in the sport, that the sport was ‘rotten to the core,’ the public enthusiasm for the sport collapsed.
The challenge for rugby administrators, players and coaches (and for the other major sports, of course) is to ensure that this corruption of the contest never takes place.
Sharminator
Roar Rookie
These days many top supplement companies get their supplements tested and say if they are WADA safe on the label. Some supplement companies dont do this and have been found to have "contamination" of banned products, leading to athletes testing positive unwittinly. However, the majority of supplements dont contain banned products ... its economics, substances such as steroids or growth hormones are illegal without a prescription ... and lot more expensive than "safe" supplements. I think that good supplementation is part of being a smart athlete, allowing you to train harder and win.
Sharminator
Roar Rookie
I understand what you are saying Wal, and yes Im sure in the future there will be some new products that we thought were safe, banned. The same as the reverses on prohibited subtances. Caffeine was banned by the WADA until 2003, when they decided that it should be taken off the list because its has both positive and negative short and long term health effects, and "Many experts believe that caffeine is ubiquitous in beverages and food ... creating the risk of sanctioning athletes for social or diet consumption of caffeine. In addition, caffeine is metabolized at very different rates in individuals." One thing that most people dont realise is that drug testing at the Olympics only started in the 1968 .... before that, especially in the 1950´s and 1960´s drug use was commonplace, and steroid use was considered normal amonst weightlifters. Personally, I believe that only drugs which can permanently have a drastic negative effect on your health should be banned from sport. Not banning such drugs means that athletes may have to choose between their welfare and winning, which isnt a choice anyone should have to make. For me, supplement use is just as much a part of sport as wearing the right shoe, having a good coach.
Sharminator
Roar Rookie
Creatine isnt a protein substance Wal, its an organic acid helps suppy energy to muscle cells, and is produced from amino acids. As I said above there is a limit to the amount of creatine your body can store, and any excess creatine is simply flushed out of the body. This means that there is no benefit in taking excessive amounts. Perhaps if you ingested a kilo of creatine you might get sick, but the same if you ingest a kilo of salt or nutmeg. Over the years there have been claims that Creatine may damage the kidneys or liver but "Creatine is one of the most-researched sports supplements out there, and there's no published literature to suggest it's unsafe." The claims that it is dangerous are all anecdotal. I think your point about athletes knowing what they are taking is very important, athletes need to be taught to only put into their body supplements they know the effects of and know are legal. There are many reports of athletes being unwittingly given illegal substances by doctors, but this again is where education and perhaps testing of supplements by clubs and regulatory bodies could come in. Regarding supplements, some supplements have been found to contain banned substances. As a result several companies now have stickers on their proteins stating they have been tested and are "safe" for WADA tested athletes.
Jerry
Guest
Dean Greyling http://youtu.be/P1znXpoxWRs?t=20s Lote Tuqiri http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikQg1k-MBDQ Qwade Cooper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9RYZStDdDI Aurelien Rougerie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FQkwYfqDnU Andy Powell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT2LnhR6mhY Dylan Hartley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ygseQDp_o&feature=related Ali Williams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpnIenTjXUU&feature=related Jamie Heaslip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3HvvvnlGQI Kevin McLaughlin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttY0jl1LAFU Phil Waugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DE7FvrKac10#t=58s (01:00) Scott Higginbotham http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otz7OUb7f9k In the above examples, how many times was McCaw offside when they happened?
Sharminator
Roar Rookie
It is impossible to overdose on creatine ... the body simply eliminates any creatine it cant use. Creatine has side effects, both positive and negative, but anyone taking a supplement should inform themselves about the positives and negatives. Weight gain is one of the reasons why athletes us it, it helps you retain water in your muscles, which helps you lift heavier weights and can lead to increased muscle size. There are negative effects of creatine but If a supplement isnt proven to have long term harmful and permanent effects, athletes should be able to use it. Most users experience some discomfort related to bloating and going to the bathroom in the first few days of use. There are some dangers as you mentioend, However, almost all studies have concluded there are no long term adverse effects. "Current studies indicate that short-term creatine supplementation in healthy individuals is safe, although those with renal disease should avoid it due to possible risks of renal dysfunction, and before using it healthy users should bear these possible risks in mind. Small-scale, longer-term studies have been done and seem to demonstrate its safety.[30][31] There have been reports of muscle cramping with the use of creatine, though a study showed no reports of muscle cramping in subjects taking creatine on a 15-item panel of qualitative urine markers. Creatine did not cause any clinically significant changes in serum metabolic markers, muscle and liver enzyme efflux, serum electrolytes, blood lipid profiles, red and white whole blood cell hematology, or quantitative and qualitative urinary markers of renal function.[31] In addition, experiments have shown that creatine supplementation improved the health and lifespan of mice.[32] Whether these beneficial effects would also apply to humans is still uncertain. Creatine supplementation may accelerate the growth of cysts in humans with Polycystic Kidney Disease. PKD is prevalent in approximately 1 in 1000 people and may not be detectable until affected individuals reach their thirties. In 2004 the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) published a record that stated that oral long-term intake of 3 g pure creatine per day is risk-free.[33] The reports of damage to the kidneys or liver by creatine supplementation have been scientifically refuted." Apart from telling them not to take creatine, a doctor would probably also tell someone with kidney disease, high blood pressure or liver disease not to engage in top level athletic activity.
Carnivean
Guest
Creatine gets broken down to Creatinin by the body. This is exactly the same as the Creatine in steaks, and I believe other red meats. This cycle has been tested in humans for as long as we've been eating dead cows. Other supplements have varying degrees of understanding behind them. Some, as Creatine, are simply refined food sources, and their digestion is well understood. Others are not as well understood, and as such should be viewed with scepticism as to their long term health benefits. Steroid supplementation is a good example of something that the long term impacts were not understood before widespread usage. On the other hand, people have been able to manage these substances and achieve the benefits from them, without having side effects. Look up the Westside Barbell club for some long term, healthy steroid users. Supplementation is a wonderfully gray area of legality, with a spectrum of law and loopholes across many nations. There is a distortion of regulation on the market in many cases, due to the claimed costs of testing these products on the makers. Even labelling laws are often ridiculous due to "proprietary" compounds not needing to be detailed, so that users often have no clue what is even in some of the over the counter supplements. But Creatine is understood, safe as any other compound that needs to be digested, and safe as a high protein diet. If you aren't stupid about using it, there will be no side effects for healthy people.
Wal
Roar Guru
Agreed but we have been drinking water for thousands of years, Creatine is a relatively new product that has not been put through any long term analysis to prove its safety. It is an overly dramatic example but Asbestos was considered safe until it had been on the market for a long period of time. (it also occurs naturally) People need to realise Natural does not instantly mean safe. The researchers at Leeds University’s school of pharmacy surveyed 68 herbal products on sale to the public and found 51 of them (75 per cent) contained no information on precautions, interactions with other medicines or side effects. Seventy per cent of them (48 of the 68 products) were marketed as food supplements, despite their powerful effects. Just three products contained sufficient information on risks and side-effects. I am not saying that Creatine is harmful or illegal, I just don't think we should blindly use it assuming it must be safe
Carnivean
Guest
So is water. Google water toxicity. Nothing is safe if done stupidly. Creatine is not in the category that could be implied by your statements. I agree that knowing what goes into your body should be paramount as a professional, drug tested athlete.
Wal
Roar Guru
Sorry mate I am not surfing you comments just you seem to be the one making the most pointed arguments. And an open debate on these issues can't be a bad thing. Don't assume we are at the pinnacle of sport science what is considered safe now, could very easily show up side effects in long term trials. There are a litany of drugs once thought safe that have been found to have devastating side effects over much longer time frames than since 1997. I did (of all sports) cycle at a competitive level, and made it a priority to know exactly what was going into my body, however there were some unbelievably good riders that were being administered Vitamin B injections by coaches as young as 15. You would have to be very trusting to allow any one to inject a vial of liquid not know for sure what it is, remember coaches and sports doctors careers follow their athletes sucess. Likewise trusting a supplement company to put ethics before profits is risky. As for the approval of such supplements the FDA in the US considers them a food product and therefore they are not subjected to clinical trials like administered drugs are. It is often safer to take a medically approved drug than a natural supplement due to the rigorous testing required to go on sale. The only restricting is and I quote " the manufacturer, packer, or distributor whose name appears on the label of a dietary supplement marketed in the United States is required to submit to FDA all serious adverse event reports associated with use of the dietary supplement in the United States." Caffeine, Vitamin A, K and D can all be deadly if not take within correct doses.
Wal
Roar Guru
Whilst I agree with you regarding the relative safety of Creatine you have to be very careful making comments that you cannot overdose on creatine. Any protein substance in high volumes can cause kidney and liver damage. Whilst I do not for a second believe it should be banned a clear and honest discussion can only be a good thing. Not all athletes take the time or have the inclination to educate themselves and if all these supplements are put under the spotlight that can't be a bad thing. Nor are all suppliment copmanies above adding ingredients for ancillary benefits for example it would not be inconceivable for any of the muscle mass powders to include diuretics (banned by WADA) to enhance the appearance of muscle mass
Wal
Roar Guru
Not quite, a quick search on Google Scholar lists 65,000 papers on the potential side effects of Creatine. Testosterone occurs naturally in the body too ,just because something is natural doesn't even remotelyimply it is safe Univeristy of Maryland (A practicing medical school) lists the following side effects Side effects of creatine include weight gain, muscle cramps, muscle strains and pulls, stomach upset, diarrhea, dizziness, high blood pressure, liver dysfunction, and kidney damage. Most studies have found no significant side effects at the doses used for up to 6 months. Rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of skeletal muscle tissue) and sudden kidney failure was reported in one case involving an athlete taking more than 10 grams daily of creatine for 6 weeks. People with kidney disease, high blood pressure, or liver disease should not take creatine. Taking creatine supplements may stop the body from making its own natural stores, although researchers don' t know what the long-term effects are. The Food & Drug Administration recommends talking to your health care provider before starting to take creatine. Source: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/creatine-000297.htm#ixzz2KdF91xBY Interesting not on muscle strains considering the levels experienced in all modern sports
Ian
Guest
" Nobody in world rugby, that I know of, acts like Quade, so dont pretend he is a victim of anyone but his own actions." Nobody except Richie "Cheatin'" McCaw Richie is also a victim of his own actions, if you keep onside, you won't get so many people trying to stamp on your head.
delbeato
Roar Guru
One of the issues with supplements is that some have reportedly been occasionally found to contain banned substances, even if the key ingredient itself isn't banned. The point seems to be that you're rolling the dice - although if you're in a low level competition you probably won't be tested.
Hightackle
Guest
Yeah all players act like Quade right? Oh no they dont, Quade turned on his team, his team mates and his coach more times than once. He did it after his own poor form both times. He gets hidden in defense like hes a child playing a mans game. He put his knee into Richies head whilst he couldnt retaliate. The hate is driven by Quade, nobody else. Nobody in world rugby, that I know of, acts like Quade, so dont pretend he is a victim of anyone but his own actions.
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
Thanks for that sherminator. I had no idea that creatine couldn't accumulate as such in the body and that it was pretty quickly eliminated too, apparently mostly through urine. Hence the fact that Ppl with renal impairment should be cautious in using it. Much clearer now.
Sharminator
Roar Rookie
Interesting point sledgeandhammer, I think one of the points is that many of the people who go on about drugs in sport, that "all supplements should be banned" and that "in my day we didnt have supplements" are people who have never played any sport to a high level or who played when sport science was still developing. Tim Horan was a fantastic player, but played rugby when sport science was in its infancy and when supplements were not as widely used or available as they are today. Players today are also bigger (thanks to sport science) and can train longer and harde (thanks to sport science). I remember first trying creatine in 1997 after reading about it in a magazine ... it was imported from Germany and cost about $400 for 500 grams. These days that would cost you $10. But it helped me put on weight and muscle mass and improve performance. Id argue the issue of recreational drugs is similar. The people who argue for a total ban for drugs such as Marijuana tend to be people have never tried it. I´ve had friends who have had their lives destroyed by drugs ... others by alcohol, and many many others who have tried manrijuana, ecstasy or coke a few times, enjoyed it, and never become addicted or had drug problems.
Sharminator
Roar Rookie
One of the people in the spotlight at the moment is Stephen Danks or Danksy, in regard to supplementation as Essendon AFL club. Rugby followers might be interested to know that he used to involved with a few Sydney Premiership rugby clubs. In the late 90´s he was the Physical trainer at Sydney Uni when I was playing there. He made us aware of the benefits of sports supplements. Back then apart from a Gatorade sports supplements were not widely used. After he became the Physical trainer of 1st and 2nd grade we used to be given a small cup with powder in it before each game, which we added water to. I think it had creatine, some salts and minerals, and some maltodextrin (sport drink powder) in it. We all took as we were told it would improve performance. After being with Sydney Uni for a few years he moved on to Randwick. Not sure how long he stayed involved in rugby union. Perhaps there should be some more monitoring or licensing of Sports Scientists and Nutricionists and the products they provide, but as long as they are providing legal supplements, I think they are a good idea, allowing athletes to reach their maximum potential. These day I am playing rugby in South America. Everyone in my team takes supplements, both before games and after. Generally before a game we take what is known as a pre-game or pre-workout supplement, which has creatine, caffeine, minerals, amino acids and sometimes a little protein or some maltodextrin/carbohydrate powders in it. As a player, I have noticed a difference between playing with and without these supplements. They increase mental awareness and focus, and seem to improve endurance and reduce the onset of tiredness. Post game we tend to take protein shakes and mineral salts, and we have a club doctor who can inject anti inflammatories into the players who get injured or who feel particularly tired.
Mango Jack
Guest
+1, BB. Incessant gambling promotion, by overt and covert means, during sports broadcasts is insidious. Get rid of it.
Sharminator
Roar Rookie
You are trying to crawl out of a hole Spiro but in this case you cant. There is no such thing as an allowable amount of creatine or a maximum reccommended daily intake. Creatine is like water ... Everybody has a maximum amount their body can absorb, as a general rule 1 gram of creatine for every 10kilos of body weight. When you take more creatine or drink more water than you body needs or can absorb, it simply comes out the other end. There are no negative effects from an excess of creatine. This is in contrast with things such as Vitamin A, which can store up in the body and eventually become toxic. It is impossible to "overdose" on creatine. Creatine has also never been proven to have negative health effects in the short or long term.
Billy Bob
Guest
Ah yes, the moral protection that the state run by politicians provides us. The greatest gift that the state could offer organised crime - drug prohibition. Also the greatest theft of the lives of youth. Every enlightened drugs policy sooner or later meets this trench in the road - moral 'correctness'. Drug policy is a little like indigenous policy - to create the most sensible policy requires mainstream society to change its fundamental assumptions about 'right and wrong', and other hard-held stubbornness. So we are left with the status quo with only tokenistic and incremental improvements. With regard to this drugs in sport "issue", the drugs are only one side of the story. The motivation is coming from criminal elements looking for matches to fix. Why? So they can control the game of prediction aka gambling for profit. Now if the government really wanted to control something to benefit us, they could prohibit gambling promotion during sports games. Why Peter Sterling and the other NRL drum beaters need to promote gambling to the NRL audience is beyond me. Peter Fitz summed it up well in the Herald yesterday. We need more gambling like we need a hole in the head. We need to see the elephant bookmaker in the room and be less distracted by 'drug' moralising.