Carlton AFL preview 2013

Totally agree with the fact that the blu,he has been average for his No 1 ranking !! es need to get mpre out of Gibbs

Oh and TomC on re-reading our respective posts at 4.45 I said "plenty of senior experience" at 5.20 I said "senior experience" you replied at 5.44 so sorry if I didn't remember typing the word plenty an hour before and confusing the 2 posts.

TOmC - Are we really going to have an argument over the word plenty - Given we are talking about depth players (who if they were getting regular senior games would not be depth players and if they were good enough but being prevented from playing would be picked up by other clubs) I consider 15-20 games "plenty", if you have a different definition thats fine. For the record of those missing games from my "best 22" Warnock has 58 games, Hampson 57, Lucas 18, Watson 11, Davies 15, Ellard 37 & White 17.

Big call to drop the reigning B&F, if that is what it comes down to then we will be in good shape.

Actually i reckon Blues are a real shout this year !!!!!!!!!!

I agree on Scotland his over rated

Tuohy has certainly showed enough to warrant a spot in Carlton's best side and Malthouse would remember Tuohy's good finals performance. Perhaps Scotland may be one to be out of Carlton's best 22. It would be ironic as he left the Pies because Malthouse couldn't guarantee him a regular game (despite playing in two successive Grand Finals), and he may finish his career under Malthouse in and out of the side. Malthouse wouldn't guarantee any player a regular game if their form didn't warrant it, no matter who they are.

You said they 'have plenty of senior experience'! It's literally right above my post! How on earth do you expect to get away with lying like that? Anyway, I'm done with this. It's like talking to a brick wall. Get some perspective, Macca. Your footy team ain't special.

And I now this is a real "what if" but let's just suppose one of Warnock or Hampson have a break out year (not too much of a stretch) and one of Lucas, Ellard, Graham or Menzel finds a regular spot in the side or one of Watson, McInnes, McCarthy, White or Bootsma breaks in to the backline as a tall defender - all of a sudden you have very good players missing out. Again I acknowledge the what if nature of the comment but in years gone by the blues would of had one or 2 players that could fit that "what if" category, now they only need 1 or 2 of a dozen players on the cusp to take the next step.

TomC - They might not have played many games but all I said was that "they have senior experience" which is important. Casboult, Bell & to a lesser extent Bootsma all showed they have what it takes to play senior football and Bell & Casboult have good body size and some maturity. White & Davies have both played mid teens games but have both been in the system for a few years, again these players aren't going to be the first picked if someone goes down but are depth players. Rowe is a mature age player and Mitchell has had a few years to put some meat on his bones but again I would imagine the order of talls forwards picked would be Waite, Casboult, Hampson, Rowe then Mitchell (assuming Kreuzer is picked as a ruckman). And on " maybe in six month time I’ll see them differently." that is exactly what I am saying, following the train wreck of a list losing draft picks at the same time as major retirements caused Ratten spent 5 years putting together a list, 2010 - 2011 years saw the top 22 go from a team that couldn't win a game to one that made the finals and were competitive in them, 2012 was smashed with injuries and saw some lower players get exposure and now in 2013 players like Lucas, Watson, Bell & Casboult have reached the age profile, body size and senior exposure to have breakout years. The improvement in the blues depth to me is demonstrated by the fact that I have not even listed Joseph as a possibility of playing a senior game (while 2 years ago he was a regular) and Curnow who has played a lot of senior football over the past 2 years is third or fourth in line for a senior recall. Also 2 years ago Walker was our full forward, now he will play as the third marking tall.

Yeah Andrew I would have had Hampson in as well but when I sat down and put the players in position he just didn't fit but I wouldn't be surprised if he is in. Your idea of Touhy out and Gibbs to a wing could work but I like what Touhy brings to the table.

That's a good side Macca. I'd probably put Hampson in the side, especially considering that Kruezer and Waite are quite mobile & it wouldn't make the side top heavy. Perhaps Scotland can take Tuohy's spot in the backline, Gibbs on to the wing and Hampson on the bench.

Actually, many of the other players you have mentioned have played very little AFL level football, including Bell, Casboult, Rowe, Mitchell, Bootsma, White, and Davies. I look at the team below and I see a pretty good team (although I wouldn't expect Kreuzer to ruck all game with some support from Casboult), but I don't look at your replacements and see much to get excited about. Although I quite like Ellard and I was surprised Ratten couldn't find more use for him. Like I said, Malthouse specialises in getting the most out of fringe players, so maybe in six month time I'll see them differently.

And TomC - I didn't say all those players a great players, but they do provide "depth", it would be great if the blues could have Jimmy Bartel being forced to play as the sub because they have a team full of A graders but that just isn't possible. The team I listed below has a very solid backline, a great midfield and plenty of attacking options and has some players to cover all areas with senior experience missing out. I would love to hear which players you rate and don't rate.

TomC - Graham has been outstanding in the intra club matches by all accounts and did win the TAC cup best & fairest last year so he could be one of the bargains of the draft. Look at the side I have listed below and you will see that while I do have him "pushing for a spot" he would be behind, Lucas, Ellard, Curnow & Menzel to even get in this side but if he continues his early form who knows. Most sides could rattle off a bunch of names but my point is that all the players listed (with the exception of Menzel & Graham who the media have been giving big wraps to) have played plenty of senior football and their age profiles are ripe for the picking. Watson & Lucas have been in the system for 3 or 4 years, Rowe is a mature body, Bell & Casboult are/were rookies that showed enough last year to show they be contributors this year.

Some of those names are great players, but to be honest Macca I probably rate many of the others lower than you seem to. I mean, when you're listing a first year third round 18 yo draft pick as one of the players pushing for spots in the midfield (Nick Graham), that is probably a sign of a lack of depth. More importantly, I think depth is best quantified by the number of proven, consistent performers, and many of Carlton's best 22 are terribly inconsistent. Every side in the league, all 18 of them, could claim to have depth of potential, and rattle off a bunch of names of talented players in each position.

COmpletely agree Andrew - Just for giggles I quickly put together a potential blues starting 22 Back - Dugian, Jamison, Tuohy HB - Laidler, Henderson, Yarran C - Scotland, Judd, Simpson HF - Robinson, Waite, Walker FF Betts Casboult, Garlett Foll Kreuzer, Murphy, Carrazzo Int Gibbs, Bell, McLean Sub Armfield To me this would be a very good side and missing out would be Hampson, Warnock, Rowe, Ellard,Watson, McInnes, MCarthy, Bootsma, Mitchell, Graham, Lucas, Menzel, Curnow, Davies & Collins which provides plenty of cover in most areas. However just like last year, if all the A graders miss large chinks of the season no amount of "depth player" can make up for the loss of talent.

I think Carlton have plenty of depth on their list, probably more than most clubs. However it's difficult for any club to cover injuries to their top few players, especially if they're all out at the same time. Murphy and Carrazzo's simultaneous absence last year for several weeks couldn't be covered by their second tier midfielders. Carlton can go a long way this year if Murphy, Carrazzo, Judd, Kruezer, Waite and Jamison can stay on the field.

Players I overlooked in that summary were Nick Duigan, Josh Bootsma, Mitch Robinson, Ed Curnow, SImon White, Marcus Davies & to a much lesser extent Aaron Joseph (although I would be happy if he never plays a game again). Robinson & Duigan would be walk up starts, Bootsma showed plenty and White, Curnow & Davies are depth players.

I think by the end of the year this "lack of depth" perception will be put to bed. Last years injuries did have the benefit of exposing younger players to the highest level. Tom Bell,Watson, Andy McInnes, Pat McCarthy, Levi Casboult & Like Mitchell all got game time and at least 3 of them showed plenty. If you go through the lines you will see that players returning form injury this year will make competition for spots high and add plenty of depth, In the back 6 we have Jamison, Laidler & Henderson all coming back from injury to fill the 3 tall defender spots, with Watson, McInnes (when he returns from injury) and Mccarthy in reserve. Laidlers return will allow Gibbs to push into the midfield. Yarran, Touhy, Scotland, Armfield, Ellard will battle for rebounding/small defender roles. In the ruck department you have plenty of depth with Warnock, Hampson & Kreuzer although on of those really needs the beak out year they have ben promising for last couple. In the midfield there is plenty of depth with Carrazzo, Judd, Murphy, Simpson, Gibbs & McLean making a more a handy first 6 with Tom Bell, Nick Graham & Kane Lucas pushing for spots plus Touhy, Scotland, Armfield, Ellard, Betts & Garlett all running through. In the forward line you have plenty of tall options with Casboult, Rowe, Mitchell & Waite (although he is injury prone) plus a resting ruckman, with Walker as the mid size (with Menzel & Collins pushing up) and Bett's & Garlett the crumbers