Can Australia still salvage Hyderabad Test?

Guys. I strongly suggest you dont despair over what is happening during this series. For Warner, Hughes, Khawaja, Wade, Henriques, Maxwell, Smith, Pattinson, Starc, Bird and even Lyon, this is a top shelf experience that could be the making of most of them, and many of them will be the basis of a good Australian side in about 2 years. We're all feeling sad because we are being flogged. But I see it as a new beginning and as necessary. Its a steep learning curve for a bunch of young cricketers who have been nurtured on pace doctored Oz pitches and who have never experienced class spin bowling on spin friendly wickets. We're more upset because the whole team, except for Clarke, Henriques and Pattinson, have looked pretty ordinary, and even they have been troubled. Thing is, its very unusual for such an inexperienced test team from Oz to tour. We've usually had for the past 20-30 years, a core of very talented and experienced test players to cover for the inexperienced ones. This time its only Clarke, Siddle, Johnson and a wounded Watson over there with experience. Whereas in the past the young inexperienced player's deficiencies would be hidden somewhat by the experienced players performances, this time the entire team is inexperience around Clarke. The thing is all young cricketers have to go through this gauntlet. And there are many many champion players of the past who failed like these kids early in their career...you probably just didnt notice or forgot because of a past healthier balance with experienced players. We are talking about bringing others like Marsh, Voges, O'Keefe, Doolan, Finch etc over to replace some of the ones here.. O'Keefe yes. But of the others do you seriously believe they would do any better given that their first class averages are lower than the ones we have in India. No way. They are just as inexperienced against good spin as the present lot and would probably perform worse. This is a rebuilding phase. We have the cream of our kids there learning their trade. A few may fall by the way side. Most will develop and become fine future test players, and this steep learning curve they are going through now will be inestimably valuable to these players. We will be flogged during this series. India has a very good side, well experienced to Indian conditions. But I suspect we'll get closer towards the end. We'll almost certainly loose the Ashes series, but with patience with the younger players, we'll be getting closer. Within two years we'll be competing successfully with other top line tests teams even on their home grounds. All we need is patience and good coaching. Lehmannn needs to take over. We've got the raw talent there. It just needs to be refined. But most importantly the media and the public need to be patient. Border's, Waugh's and Ponting's great teams were not made in a day. We have experienced this all before, though not for about 20-30 years. Many of the present kids will eventually make us proud of Australia again. Enjoy their development to class entities. I think it will be worth the trip.

Your idea has merit I think The Barry. All young batsmen have their deficiencies, Hayden included when he was younger, and I remember well the same call for his head, like is happening at present for Hughes, when he struggled. Batsmen dont just appear. They develop. Most batsmen early in their test career struggle. Its part of the deal. Its just we have over half our team who are new to test cricket and we are seeing those deficiencies across the board. Its a learning process and we must be patient. Yep we'll be flogged for a while. But good cricketers need that experience to effectively work on their game. Get away from those safe pace doctored Oz pitches and feel what its like to face the World on other people's grounds. Two or three years from now we'll be lauding the achievements of many of these kids being flogged now. And if you guys are still around, I'll remind you of what I'm saying. I've seen this all before. One example was the introduction of the one day format when over half the Oz team left tests cricket for several years. The test team floundered for a year or two with inexperienced kids. Then they developed and many held their own against the one dayers who later returned. Australia's phoenix will rise again

Patience Nihar. This is a steep learning curve for our young batsmen. They will come out of this experience better batsmen. Needed to happen. Dont despair

Hughes needs to experience spin bowling as much as he can. This kid has outstanding raw talent, but he has deficiencies, especially with spin (mind you most Australian batsmen these days have that deficiency because of our pace doctored wickets). We know this kid can bat and score big. He's done it before and he's not the first top batsman to be found wanting on the sub continent. He'll come out of this a better batsman. Its also the reason Khawaja needs to be in tests so he also can experience the spin bowliing expertise. I think he's likely to be our best batsman against spin after Clarke, but he needs to go through the gauntlet to learn what he needs to learn. That's one of the reasons these selectors are so incompetent. Batsmen like Hughes, Watson and Khawaja need this experience at this age to make them into top test players. Personally I think this experience for Oz batsmen, Smith, Maxwell, Henriques included, is priceless. They will all emerge better for the experience if given the chance to face the best spin attack and spin grounds in the cricketing world.

My answer Cowan - No. He is at his best already at his best. 30-35 is the best average he will get in test cricket Watson - Yes but not in the short term. Has a FC batting average of 45 so we know he can bat better Clarke - Yes. He's a tough cricketer but dont expect the purple patch to continue. He will however remain Australia's best bat for a few years yet Henriques - We got a peak of his potential in the first test. Eventually he will be a good test all rounder, maybe even better. But will be dveloping for a few years yet Maxwell - Yes but not in the short term. He's a kid with raw talent like Steve Smith, but its unrefined and needs good coaching. At present too impetuous. Bowling is improving but still a long way to go. Fielding excellent. Batting, too focussed on limited over cricket. Needs to learn patience. Potentially could be a good test player but not yet.

Very poor training in Oz against spin. Will be our undoing in Brit as well. Oz pitches have been designed for pace bowling not spin. That's why our spin bowling stock is so low and why our batsmen cant handle the good spinners on spinners wickets.

You are right in that. Cowan does seem the one batsman outside of Clarke who mentally can rough it out. But that is only because he is so defensive in style. Unfortunately despite that resilience, and he should be commended for that, he is at best a reasonable Shield player who is only there because we have such a limited stock of batsmen available at present. He's only ever going to be good for about 30 runs an innings

You can t win without a quality spinner who can make the likes of tendulkar, pujara and kohli dance! As simple as that! Its going to be a complete whitewash for oz unless India plays too bad for a draw. Australia winning a single match now is just out of the question. Michael Clarke vs India going on at the moment and as the series build up, its going to be more painful to see oz lose!

Cowan is at best an average shield player. Why the selectors have persisted is something they can only explain. There are no obvious answers but Khawaja looks to have some class, just needs to be given the opportunity players like Cowan have been given.

He also faced mediocre seam bowling and cashed in big time.

I am not surprised by the result. thats what happens when your top 8 batsman are averaging low 30s or late 20s outside of the subcontinent andwhenyou have your keeper battingat 6. in the subcontinent when they play they weill do worse, solets look at the statistics vs series average warner - 45 outside, but only 28.50 in the series, I think he was sick so he will come good in the next game. ed cowan - 35/ 27.25 - Didn't have a good shield record coming in and averaging only 33 outside, but 27 in the series even lower- either him or Hughes will be dropped if they don't improve. phil hughes- 34 outside, but only 6.25 in series sr watson- 36 outside, but only 19.25, hasn't impressed and needs to bowl again wade- 42 outside, but only 23 glenn maxwell - debutant, didn't bat well but won't judge him yet Overall Khawaja must come into the lineup as he is one of our better younger batsman in the longer format. I predict that Warner will have a big few games but others need to raise their level of standard.

No, no,no Hayden and gilly are a big part of the problem of modern Aussie batting for mine. All this hitting across the line, trying to dominate early in an innings, eyeand power rather than technique. It was ok for these champs in a champion team, now almost everyone follows suit. The problems these two had in the 05 ashes were a warning of the problems of this approach on all but the most benign of conditions.

Yes we need some serious changes for the next 2 tests. i would go, 1.cowan 2 warner 3. watson 4. khawaja 5.clarke 6.henriques 7. wade 8. johnson 9. pattinson 10. lyon 11. doherty, I think cowan will be batting to keep his spot, henriques must bat at 6, before wade, and If khawaja doesnt play we deserve to lose as he is vital for the top order. And Clarke is among the best batsman in the world and a very good captain but CA must intervene immediately and stand him down from selection duties. No captain should have a seat at the selection table; it just doesn't work as leads to favorites being picked and we have seen the results of that.

Doolans career is more comparable to cowans than any of our players during our dominant era. 1st class average in the high 30s and having the season of his career smacking runs all over the place. If Tim Paine and had in as a batsmen are the answer the question better be who are some mediocre Australian keeper batsmen.

cheer up dudes, sometimes a flogging of any kind (whip, fist, feather duster etc) can be the biggest learning curve one can receive. remember a.b's team mid 80's ? the buggers couldnt win a chook raffle. a.b had to dig us out of the crap countless times. sometimes to be a winner, you need to fuly understand losing and accept it exists. this team will shine soon. they now have tasted severe defeat. they are still the finest players we have on offer. how bout cheering these guys on victory or defeat.

Listened to an interesting overview of Australia's performance in India and in recent times. A good point made was that Australia's pitches are being designed to a likeness and as Warne indicated, they are not encouraging spin on these wickets. Its not just a dearth of coaching, its also wickets that arent allowing spin bowlers to develop their skills and wickets not designed to make batsmen work hard against spin for their wickets thereby improving both. It seems obvious that Warner, Watkins and Hughes have serious problems against good spin. Cowan being more careful in his approach probably handles spin better, but lacks the range of batting skills to take advantage of it. The remainder of the team, other than Clarke are in the same boat, though Henriques, who was unluckily run out by Wade, does seem to have the game to at least offer some resistance, even though like Maxwell and Smith, I think he's got a year yet to be considered a natural selection in the test team. Got no idea how Khawaja would go because he has had virtually no serious opportunities though in one of his three trial innings he looked as if he was handling spin well, but he ran out of time to exploit it. I suspect though that Khawaja may have the game to at least offer some resistance against spin. His technique suggests competence in that area. I think though that 2013 is likely to be a bleak year for Oz cricket. The Brits will no doubt 'doctor' their wickets to suit spin (we would if we knew of such a weakness in an opposition team), and I dont know that Australian batsmen are going to be able to learn to deal with good spin on spin friendly tracks, in time. I dispute that the batsmen we've got in Hughes, Khawaja, Warner etc are not up to test standard. I also think we have some reasonable spin boowlers in O'Keefe and Lyon. They just have a weakness that short sighted cricket administrators failed to address. In fact as I mentioned, I would be sacking the present lot and installing Lehmann as coach and start getting some decent support retired test batsmen and bowlers to work on the skill level of the present squad. I think handled correctly Australia could still be one of the top three teams within 2 years. I believe the potential is there

Haddin's Test record is nothing flash.

$utherland you mean.

Bearfax save to assume that Khawaja will come in for Watson. As for Cowan and Hughes they will probably get the next game to prove themselves but wouldn't be surprised if one of them is dropped

very funny,