Greg Martin is a decent chap, a strong Wallaby fullback in his day, and a passionate Reds and Wallabies supporter.
But his comments about Robbie Deans being part of a New Zealand conspiracy to destroy Australian rugby is the most inflammatory and stupid comment I’ve heard from a professional sports commentator about a rugby issue.
There was a sort of get out in his comments, I think, when Martin partly qualified his comments about Deans “sabotaging Australian rugby” by saying that “it is almost getting to the stage that if he doesn’t pick Quade Cooper, then it is true.”
However, the basic thrust of what Martin said was that Deans has been a Trojan Horse or a double agent, pick your metaphor.
This is a terrible defamation of a professional coach, no matter what his nationality is.
It is wrong, as Martin should know if he has had any contact with Deans, as you’d think he would as a leading commentator for Fox Sports.
Deans could have got huge amounts of money coaching in France.
His record with the Crusaders has virtually guaranteed him plum coaching jobs for the rest of his coaching career.
Why would he take on the job of coaching the Wallabies with the game plan to ‘sabotage’ the national side and put at risk decades of highly-paid coaching jobs all around the world?
Anyone who knows the history of the fractious and bitter relationship between the powerful CEO of the NZRU, Steve Tew, and Deans, from the time they worked together at the Crusaders to the time Tew shafted Deans over the All Blacks coaching job in 2008 knows that there is no way Deans is a stooge for Tew or the NZRU.
How is the ‘sabotaging’ supposed to work? Who is paying for it?
And now, if Martin is to be believed, the British and Irish Lions are in on the ‘sabotaging’ scam.
What does Martin believe the Lions are offering Deans to transfer the alleged ‘sabotaging’ from Tests against the All Blacks to the coming Tests against the Lions?
And how does it help Deans’ career as a coach to lose a series to the Lions?
It is all madness on the part of Greg Martin. He has succumbed, unfortunately, to his passion and obsession with Queensland rugby and his beloved Reds.
You only have to listen to his commentaries to see that his Red bias prejudices everything he says and sees. And this Reds bias has somehow compelled him to make an idiot of himself with his disparaging comments on Deans.
I have, from time to time, pointed out on The Roar that it is unacceptable for a commentator to be so biased when his voice is going to South Africa and New Zealand, and where it is expected that he gives an impartial and informed analysis of what is going on in the play.
After one of these articles, Martin rang me at home.
I told him that I stood by my comment and he had to understand that he is interpreting the play for viewers who are not rabid Reds supporters. He owed them a certain impartiality, which he was not providing.
Martin left me with the impression that he couldn’t help himself in curbing his Reds passion.
Who knows why Deans has not included Cooper in his initial 25 man squad. I can offer any number of reasons, though, why he did this.
First: it was only late last year that Cooper talked about the ‘toxic environment’ of the Wallaby camp under Deans and how he wanted no part of it. It is no secret that many of his fellow Wallabies were appalled by his comments and were pleased to see the back of him.
Second: James O’Connor played splendidly in the last Test of the season against Wales at Cardiff in 2011, leading the Wallabies to an exciting victory.
The measure of this victory can be gauged when England played Wales at Cardiff in the last match of the 2013 Six Nations. Wales monstered the favoured England 30-3 and won the tournament in the process.
O’Connor is probably the starting number 10 for the Wallabies-Lions series, as a consequence.
Matt Toomua and Christian Lealiifano also have their advocates for the number 10 jersey of the Wallabies. Some experts are even putting Bernard Foley forward as a possibility.
Three: Eddie Jones, who has coached Queensland and Australia, stated recently that there is no way that Deans should play the ‘three amigos’ – Cooper, O’Connor and Beale – in the same Wallaby side.
To my mind, O’Connor and Beale (provided he can get back on the field) are much better value in every respect for the Wallabies, especially on the field, than Cooper.
Four: team culture is an important aspect of the Wallaby squad Deans is developing for the Lions series. Cooper has smashed that culture before and could easily smash it again.
Five: Deans went public before the season started and stated that Cooper had to play in the line on attack AND defence if he wanted to be reinstated in the Wallabies.
As Paul Cully pointed out a day or ago on Rugby Heaven, Cooper has not been doing this for the Reds. He is missing tackles and he has a high turnover rate.
He is brilliant but this brilliance is seen more often in Super Rugby than in Test rugby.
Rugby Tests are more often lost on mistakes than they are won by individual brilliance.
There is always the possibility, anyway, that Cooper will be picked for the Wallabies. But Martin’s outrageous rant has not helped Cooper’s cause nor done very much for Martin’s reputation as a lucid analyst of rugby matters.
John Philipson
Guest
GREAT POST. +10000
Bruce Rankin
Guest
Thanks joeb, I've kept out of the Deans debate here as it's been pretty much done to death..... PeterK had a post on it on 4 December last.... where I had more than my tuppence worth of comments amongst the many: http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/12/04/robbie-deans-should-he-stay-or-should-he-go/ It seems pretty clear that Deans getting a 2 year extension to RWC 2015 is dependent on the Wallabies beating the Lions this year.... that's the first hurdle and methinks it's all over for him otherwise. Then comes The Rugby Championship where the Wallabies will need to be better than 2nd as in 2012. (I think the Wallabies will do well as too many All Blacks are getting long in the tooth..... like the Springboks in 2011.) In other words determination of the 'next' Wallabies coach before year end is likely to take care of itself.
joeb
Guest
Bruce, "meantime I suggest we need to pull our horns in and let the new ARU structure, Board and CEO have a minimum of two years before we leap in and tear it all down." Very good point - wish i'd been paying closer attention. :) But it doesn't detract from the point Deans has overstayed his welcome and his results have been mediocre. A success rate of 17.65% against the ABs during his tenure is unacceptable. We should be winning the Bledisloe every two years, minimum, with no excuses. He shouldn't be entitled to another world cup bid with us. Maybe the northern hemisphere will welcome him with open arms but his time here should be up.
Skills & Techniques
Guest
Even I can kick off and not kick it out!
Bruce Rankin
Guest
Hi joeb, Thanks for your feedback....all grist to the mill. On Greg Martin and Deans (the actual subject of Spiro's article!!) a mate of mine from Auckland (btw I'm a Sydney Waratahs supporter) put it well I thought, on both Martin and Cooper: "Bloody hell. Has Greg Martin lost it or what? Deans should have been the AB coach, and was treated badly by Tew/NZRU, so why would he want to be their ‘Trojan horse’? As for Cooper, he may be good at Super 15, especially when playing in a very good team like the Reds, but in a test team, when the opposition is quality, and he is faced with defending, he is a liability. The Lions will hopefully be beaten by Australia, but it will be tough, and he is unlikely to stand the pressure. Leave him out." Fyi it was actually Deans who said ‘play what’s in front of you' back in 08/09 and there was much positive response from Wallabies who said how much they were enjoying Deans approach. Not Eddie Jones. I watched the Reds v Chiefs game yesterday and Cooper made at least 3 very elementary mistakes in the first 10 minutes. Otherwise he played reasonably well.... greatly helped by the world's No 1 halfback inside him and a superior go forward pack. But untested on defence when hidden at the back. Methinks there is a vast difference between Cooper's "toxic environment" remark - criticism clearly aimed at Deans as the coach supposedly responsible. Versus Stephen Moore's quite reasonable assessment of "what we have to do as a team from now on to succeed" which was not targeted at any individual. Last night for example, captain George Whitelock was justifiably critical of his Crusaders mistake and penalty riddled performance - aimed at everyone in the team including himself. (Not taking anything away from the Force who played very well and deserved to win.) Most losing captains are pretty honest in their post match remarks, they keep it general and I do not recall any captain or coach being critical of individual players in their team.... . The Sydney Swans have had a "No dickheads" policy for some years, which has resulted in a great team culture - and in 2 grand final wins. That speaks for itself. The Wallabies need the same if they are to succeed against the Lions. Accordingly I stand by my remarks. Lastly, with regard to your remark that "....if Deans isn't replaced by the end of the year ..... time for a spill of the ARU board". You appear to have overlooked the fact that only late last year there was a complete review and overhaul of the ARU structure, with all states now evenly represented, a new ARU Board structure, plus a new CEO appointed in Bill Pulver. And the Wallabies 2013 test season has not even begun! I think we can rely on the new Board to do its job. In the meantime I suggest we need to pull our horns in and let the new ARU structure, Board and CEO have a minimum of two years before we leap in and tear it all down.
Skills & Techniques
Guest
Kiwis are just as bad too FOS. They can't see a forward pass if a Kiwi team throws it.
joeb
Guest
"or maybe even the Waratahs ten?" Richard, sorry, didn't realise you're a Kiwi. Bernard Foley, the Tahs' No.10? If needed he could do the job, yes, and he's also a decent 15, though I think Deans will plumb for either Lealiifano, or O'Connor at 'first receiver'. If Cooper was unavailable, Lealiifano would be my pick. I don't deny it, O'Connor could develop into a decent pivot also, though he hasn't exactly starred there for either the Rebels or formerly for the Force. My feeling is regardless who's picked for the Wallabies to play the Lions they'll play out of their skins (versus the old enemy) and save Deans' bacon.
joeb
Guest
"This is why you are should not be taken seriously in regards to comments on Rugby. Do you forget that Beale punched his captain?" MA, that unsavoury yet understandable incident came about due to 'injured pride' considering not so long ago Beale was our outstanding first-picked No.15, and now here he was in a side demoralisingly whipped 64-7 by the Sharks at Kings Park (Round 6). Rebels have a bye next weekend and the following week in Round 11 meet the Crusaders at AMI in Kiwi Land. Fingers crossed he's back for that, and returns to the Tahs next season.
joeb
Guest
eh. moderator, how bloody long does it take? or is it a case of 'never on sunday'?
joeb
Guest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlYkeOPWuy0
joeb
Guest
Bruce, “And Eddie Jones was spot on in his assessment that that there is no way that Deans should play the ‘three amigos’ – Cooper, O’Connor and Beale – in the same Wallaby side. A critical part of a great team culture is that there are no cliques – the three amigos are a prime example of what you do NOT want in a team.” Yes, they just might link up and score a spectacular try, or two, maybe even three, and we definitely can’t have that at international level. Eddie’s rule was ‘play what’s in front of you,’ or something wasn’t it? At one point players were instructed under threat of being sidelined not to pass the ball, or something, if memory serves? “Coming back to Cooper - Deans said it all with needing a No 10 who can - and will - both ATTACK and DEFEND. What is the value of a 50% player who has to be hidden 50% of the time?” Glad you mention this. Here’s how Link explains it: “Reds mentor Ewen McKenzie's decision to position Cooper at full-back in defence has not helped his Wallabies' cause but ‘the coach has stressed it is best for the Reds' kick-return attack, rather than an indictment on his tackling.’” http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-10/quade-cooper-out-of-wallabies-picture/4621124 Cooper, like Beale who for a time was heavily criticised over his inept tackling style, can actually defend quite well when he puts his mind to it, so i don’t really think that’s the issue. The obvious No.10 if Cooper misses out is Lealiifano, though Deans will go for O’Connor, and in time O’Connor probably will mature into a decent 10. (See last night’s game Rebels/Kings? Admittedly O’Connor did some good things, and has a decent pass when his confidence is up.) “Lastly his comments about the “toxic” environment last year further reveal he just does not get it about being a team player. For the good of the team, unless you can say something positive, you say nothing. The minute someone goes public (as in so many walks of life) it’s an indication the person has lost the argument, battle or whatever.” Wonder what Stephen Moore meant when he said: “We’ve got to look at everything we’re doing, top to bottom, if we want to be the number one side.” Maybe the super sensitive among us read too much into ‘off the cuff comments’ at the conclusion of matches, me included. Spiro’s comment: “...the basic thrust of what Martin said was that Deans has been a Trojan Horse or a double agent, pick your metaphor.” If Deans is innocent of both charges, and like Marto i’m not convinced he is, then it certainly proves that Deans is an inept out-of-his-depth coach that by now should have been well and truly replaced. And if he isn’t by the end of year, time for a spill of the ARU board, meaning they’re living in total fantasyland with an overblown self-importance delusion of themselves because the results simply aren’t materialising and all we get is every excuse under the sun after each and every failure. ARU cleanout urgently required.
Kane
Roar Guru
I agree here. I don't think high tackle grasps the concept im trying to state. The original post asks weather there has been a poorer #10 performance by a wallaby than the rwc by cooper and I stated that yes at time Beale, Giteau and Barnes have at times played worse than Coopers RWC 2011 performance. Yet he brings it back to MOM awards that in my opinion mean shite. I have no doubt that Cooper has won MOM awards and his MOM awards would mean more than Barnes who played below average for a test flyhalf yet kick 6 or 7 penalties which nets him the MOM award.
Dazza
Guest
Its not rocket science, Cooper's said some nasty things, and is obviously not the best influence in a team environment. I've coached enough teams in my time to know that all it takes is one bad influence to bring the whole side down. Good on someone for standing up to the 'precious' Cooper, and giving the chance to someone who really wants it.
MA
Guest
Three: Eddie Jones, who has coached Queensland and Australia, stated recently that there is no way that Deans should play the ‘three amigos’ – Cooper, O’Connor and Beale – in the same Wallaby side. Yep, JOC and Beale should not be in the side. Not good enough. To my mind, O’Connor and Beale (provided he can get back on the field) are much better value in every respect for the Wallabies, especially on the field, than Cooper. This is why you are should not be taken seriously in regards to comments on Rugby. Do you forget that Beale punched his captain? Deans has destroyed Australian Rugby. There are no doubts about it. Was it intentional? Not sure, but it has been systematic.
Wilson Flatley
Roar Rookie
Not particularly surprising from Greg Martin, the most hopelessly incompetent member of the Fox Rugby coverage; regularly makes comments that vindicate my opinion of him as a grade-A tosser. Just last year he was vehemently defending Lance Armstrong even after the rest of the world had realised the cheat he was. Should be dropped by Fox ASAP; for some more level-headed commentators.
amateur hour
Guest
Sorry, do you have a point because if you do i cannot in all that dribble understand what you are saying. Not trying to be difficult i just don't understand what your point is! I know not everybody reads Spiro's articles, i know my 1 year old doesn't because he cant read or my wife because she don't care. I am not talking for everybody a point you missed entirely and obviously a bit cut up about,I don't always agree with Spiro's articles but i have read all the comments on this particular point and the MAJORITY agree Marto overstepped the line. A point i think was pretty obvious in what i was saying. Again this article is not having a go at Cooper, you would notice this if you read the article, again i don't know if you did or not, or skipped through it or whatever. I will say it slowly, it is having a go at Martin for for questioning Deans loyalty and pretty much saying he is working for the enemy, something of a massive statement when you think of it. It seems you are very precious about Cooper and cannot see the wood through the trees. I will say it again it is not having a go at cooper, just relax! And Dan H If you get angry by reading Spiro's articles maybe you should take your own advice and "lighten up" and understand it's an opinion piece.
Soapit
Guest
So you are unable to answer the question? Do you not realise that goal kickers get a lot of mom awards in games with few tries? Not sure how asking a simple question and you not knowing the answer means I am in denial. Did your frustration at not being able to process what I asked make you just reach for a random insult?
Skills & Techniques
Guest
Yes Robbie was frustrated and did not spew forth the designated, meaningless, scripted claptrap that you expect from every coach. Crucify him for that?
Chivas
Guest
Jiggles you really are a noob. Do you seriously think Deans has no idea regarding strategy and relies in link for his inspiration.... That's too funny. Only on here. I'm not getting into a debate Jigs, but seriously some of the most bizarre rubbish has been rolled out by you recently; from Cooper being the 2nd best 2nd five to Deans piggy backing on the ideas of others because he has none of his own. How does someone even respond to that? Robbie may not be the coach you want, but to roll out the sort of nonsense that is being suggested both by this article, you and several others... I think Terry said it best. I have read this article and the comments and find myself considerably less informed and less intelligent than when I started. Good job. Go the Chiefs!
Patches
Guest
They should watch and listen to Tony Johnson on how to read and comment on a game of rugby he is a threat to listen to