NRL needs to distance itself from horse racing

same. now his smiling face takes on a whole new meaning --- he is being smug, because the govt is trying to compel him to come to canberra for a little meeting....

thanks cathy, took me long enough to write it. I see now the govt has been on the hells of mr waterhouse. lets hope mr abbott gets it changed. the news report which told of widespread revulsion last night mentioned a loophole in this kind of thing for sport in the law. Tom just went from annoying gambler-man to positively creepy/evil

Ok - the purpose of any sport is participation. Racing goes brilliantly here. There's a reason the racing industry is the third or fourth biggest industry in Australia. You're right - the Arabs have money coming out of their ears. But the truth is, if you want to have breeding operations and own horses to the scale they do - you need to have a 8/9-figure sum in the bank. And that's the main point - racing is, by and large, the sport of kings. If there was no gambling the people that only like horse racing to gamble would be lost. The other people, who enjoy racing for the sport it is - for the racing, for the breeding, for the training, for the riding, would still be there -- providing the Sheiks, the Singletons, the Aga Khans, the Harveys and the big studs like Vinery, Coolmore, Arrowfield continued to breed and race horses. And I believe they would. Racing in Australia would be become like racing in Dubai. It wouldn't be a 365-day sport. It would be a 12-week sport. All the money that could be generated would go into a three-month carnival and our racing would do well, just as it does in Dubai. But how do we know? Gambling isn't going to be banned. And racing will be here for as long as people continue to have an interest in it (in any capacity).

Justin, the purpose of any sport is participation, The Arabs in Saudi Arabie have so much money they dont know what to do with it, owning Horses for them is like owning a Ferari imo, I just dont think that if there was no gambling that anybody would be interested, Much the same way i think if Clubs didnt have pokies people wouldnt go to them. Where would the prize money come from if there was no gambling, and from what ive read the prize money is not enough to make owning horses viable. Look i dont know a thing about horse racing but i just dont see what the interest would be with out the gambling

"Would the racing industry have evolved where it is with out gambling" - that's an impossible question to answer. But ponder this, the world's richest race meeting is in Dubai where gambling is illegal "Would people like john Singleton own Horses if there was no gambling" - yes. I'd say yes. He has his own breeding operation. He helped form the Magic Millions. He obviously enjoys racing as a sport, owner and breeder. And he enjoys a punt as well. "If Gambling was illegal would it even exist" - It would in my opinion. It would weed out the small guys who couldn't afford to race without the prizemoney where it is now. But there is a reason why racing is known as the sport of kings. "Would you go to the races if you couldnt punt" - Good question. The answer is subjective. Personally, I'd still go to the Group meetings. I love watching good racing. I stay up to 2 in the morning to watch races in Europe that I don't have a financial interest in. Would I go to the races on a cold Wednesday in June to watch third-tier animals if I couldn't bet - probably not. "You say its about the jockeys trainers and horses, If there was no gambling how would these people make money. The way i see it it would be nothing more than what ever they call that event they have at the olympics for the upper class" - Probably. But if gambling was outlawed, racing would have to find another way to become viable. The Sheiks make racing in Dubai happen. They are involved in Aussie racing, perhaps they'd breathe some life into it. "You didnt give any other purpose for the existance of horse racing and yes, people travelled to England becuase the odds were good enough to pay for the trip becuase we in Australia knew shed win." Are you kidding? She was $1.3-1.4 in long-range markets for that race. To win the $5000 it would cost (airfares, accommodation, etc) just to watch Black Caviar, you'd have to have $12000 on her to win the Diamond Jubilee. People went to Royal Ascot to watch Black Caviar because they love the horse, they love racing and they love Royal Ascot. Horse racing exists because enough people: 1. watch horses race 2. gamble on horses racing 3. train horses 4. own horses 5. breed horses 6. ride horses 7. go to the races. Does racing need to have any other purpose than that? What is the purpose of any sport??

Justin some good points but Would the racing industry have evolved where it is with out gambling Would people like john Singleton own Horses if there was no gambling If Gambling was illegal would it even exist. Would you go to the races if you couldnt punt You say its about the jockeys trainers and horses, If there was no gambling how would these people make money. The way i see it it would be nothing more than what ever they call that event they have at the olympics for the upper class You didnt give any other purpose for the existance of horse racing and yes, people travelled to England becuase the odds were good enough to pay for the trip becuase we in Australia knew shed win.

I'll add that if a game of rugby league is rigged it won't be because the sport has ties to racing or boxing. It will almost certainly be because bets are taken on the rigged game.

Chris that's fair enough. I understand exactly where you're coming from. If the administrators really care about fixing the problems you allude to, they'll rip up the contract with TW and ban commentators from mentioning gambling or odds during the telecast. That's what I'd do! But the money is too hard to ignore. You'll find the ties between RL and gambling strengthen in the years to come. On racing - you can talk about racing without delving into the odds - I do it every time I write for The Roar. And the people who comment on racing articles usually stick to the sporting side as well. Racing was a sport before people bet on it.

The employees of the racing industry don't get paid because people like to gamble. They get paid because thousands of people like to race horses. Without horses there is no industry. The industry's major form of revenue is gambling. I ask: Do the trainers get up each day at 2:30am for the punt? Do the jockeys risk their lives when they jump on the back of a horse for the punt? Do horses run through the pain barrier for the punt? Do the owners pay the bills for the punt? Does the breeder study bloodlines for the punt? Did 5000-10000 Australians travel to Royal Ascot to watch Black Caviar for the punt? Racing gets its prizemoney from the punt. Many of racing's fans love the sport for the punt. Many of racing's controversies stem from the punt. But that's almost where it ends. Thoroughbred horse racing is the racing of horses. That's how it started 300 or 400 years ago. And that's how it always will be. Racing is about the horses, jockeys and trainers. In all seriousness, if racing was just about the punt, it'd be boring. I'd spend my Saturdays at the footy instead. People say racing would die without gambling and, in Australia, they're probably right. The sport has a pretty handy business plan that is dependent on gambling. But racing can exist in jurisdictions where gambling is illegal - have a look at Dubai as an example. And racing existed in Australia before it started receiving handouts from the TAB. And I'll end by saying there are people - albeit not many - who go to the races for the sport and choose not to bet. I, for one, fell in love with racing before I ever placed a bet. Why? Because racing is about the horses, jockeys and trainers.

i think it is quite disgusting that channel 9 is endorsing the use of drugs in sport by employing a known drug user and just because he admitted it he gets off free and made an immortal so now the immortals are tainted because a known drug user is an immortal i think it should be like this once you have tested positive or admitted that you used any sort of illegal drugs you should be banned from becoming an immortal and banned from being a commentator now if this player had still been playing he would have got what he deserved lifetime ban and no involvement in rugby league but he retired and took the cowards way out and by employing this commentator nine is basically saying to kids hey its kewl to use drugs and that is also what the immortals are saying hey kids go and use drugs and you to can be an immortal what a load of garbage ban the lot of them no second chances they should be smart enough not to use them instead of being morons and idiots

I honestly find myself getting ANGRY when watching the footy on Nine these days, the amount of airtime Waterhouse gets is simply ridiculous and i am sick of seeing his smiling tool of a face.

Justin you said It would be more accurate to say, ‘racing (in Australia) survives on gambling, like it or lump it’. I don’t think the thousands of people who are employed by racing and combine to make it the third or fourth largest industry in the country would say their involvement in the sport is entirely for the purpose of gambling This i strongly disagree with, At the end of the day the industry of horse racing is gambling, the employees would know their jobs only exist becuase people like to gamble, No one goes to the track to just watch the pretty horses run. Id be interested in what you think any other purpose is ?

I liked your post Von. Just a clarification, although there are '$1 machines', regrettably you can play multiple dollars at a time even on a '1 cent machine' which makes it even more of a trap. I hear all the talk now about sports betting/horses but not so long ago it was the poker machines with Gus Gould and Ray Warren coming under fire for defending the pokies industry. http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/10/03/my-loss-of-respect-for-gus-gould/ Although I grew up with football (brothers) I have no interest in the game and the same goes for sports betting/horse racing. So, as an impartial observer one impression I have got is that it is almost as if they are implying the game of rugby league has lost its touch and can't stand on its own and the only way for it to survive is to have it conjoined to the 'activity' of gambling. If they don't want ‘outsiders’ thinking (whether true or not) there is an internal loss of faith in the sport of RL itself then perhaps they better start turning the ship around otherwise people are just going to grow more cynical of the situation.

Wow...the irony is palpable.

I ran out of time, as I sought clarity. Yes, and do not tell me, as I read above some people putting a smiley face on gambling and horse racing and calling out to witness a rainbow. . No where is the smiley-face-stamp more evident than its placement to cover up the poisonous nature of gambling. Its like Pavlo's dogs experiment. Assign new behaviors to stimulous. And rugby league is that stimulous. I am sorry if it sickens me so. I don't want this sport hyjacked, and I have had to realign perceptions for people in the past, get them out of a rut, get them motivated, get them moving, change their ways. One can't be unscrupulous in his life, his integrity -- but the nature of the beast for gambling is far from that. Its trickery, and we all know about card tricks. Look at all the new types of "soft bets" surrounding the game. We see many adverts now for "easy entry, soft fall, seeming low risk bets, get your money back." Its gambling without the smack in the face. Oh - I lost, right, but look! I get my money back -- gee, what a tickle!! That was kind of fun" They are just trying to hook customers on a drug as far as I am concerned. They have lowered the cost to get in on the gambling game, and lowered the risks. The plan would be to have these for a time, maybe move them off, or keep them around - but ultimately you want to hook people and get them placing larger, more high stakes bets in future. ___ At the moment the entry level people on the 1c machines, but they really want them playing the dollar machines. Here is an unscrupulous list 1 Easy entry into the market. Low cost, convenient, innocent and fun. Good emotions, non commited punter, want them to perceive it as fun, innocuous. 2 Show core principal (moves they must take - new behavior needed) and payback (look what you get when you carry out your new behaviors) ->> enjoyment of time spent, weighted in favor of low effort to high (relative) reward. 3. Invest the user emotionally 4. Link the emotions up with the activity. reinforce and introduce new elements to the experience of your choosing, for your purpose. 5. Is punter showing more interest in gambling? Go to the punter now. Go greet them, coax them (same principal as free hotel rooms and room service at casinos for big spenders) 6. Can they see the risks/rewards and consider them at least tantalizing? Now you have them invested and with a higher outlay of time, receiving higher perceived rewards, you want to oblige them to gamble 7. Ramp up the risks, trying to match the outlay the person is now willing to give. You are trying to trick the brain processes. Put the brain on rails, basically - remove critical thinking. 8 Reap profits. __ So, do you want rugby league to be the sport that "removes critical thinking" for gamblers? Must rugby league be a gambling entry point? I wish Tom had stuck to horses.

You can't hang around a smelly pool and not expect to get a whiff. This is the reality and rub off of sports betting being so close to our sport. A problem will crop up from time to time yes, Ryan Tandy situation for instance, but we have seen from overseas sports, the moment you allow these people to hang around the game the troubles become more common - and whats worse, you may not know about it for a long time. Look at soccer world wide and look at American football and baseball. These sports are littered with the carcasses of compromised situations. Problem gamblers and increased exposure to gambling aside to joe public, you are essentially inviting a "competitor" to the product on the field for all involved, be they fans, players or staff. Its almost as if the football has become yet another table at some casino. I think its taking away from the proper enjoyment everyone should be aiming for. Are people going to watch rugby league in future for the enjoyment of the game, or are they going to watch it to win money? I think its a sad day when that will happen. The gambling agencies want to sink their teeth in - and to my knowledge around the world (at least in sports coverage) no sport has linked itself so closely apart from rugby league. Its frankly disgusting. If we were that hard up we are not anymore. And if we were that rubbery in our allowances with our broadcasters then hopefully in future we won't be. Don't just brush the above analogy i originally made aside. The "core" message of football used to be 2 teams playing on a field - playing a game and the focus is on the game. Its kind of being hijacked - they don't want rugby league punters so much as they want punters hooked on a drip. Gambling adds nothing to the coverage and most people are turned off by it and most people grit their teeth and suffer it. Tom doesn't make me want to have a bet. These people have come in and tried to make it about winning money. I do not begrudge anyone a bet - but its got to be in his/her own time and upon their initiation. I believe the notion of gambling on a match adding to its enjoyment is erroneous and its preaching to a low element within us all, and its preying on the vulnerable and weak. I resent the involvement of betting agencies in the game. Piggybacking off the games popularity. This is not the track. Gambling has no right to be front and center and in our faces. It used to be that it hovered around the edges of the sport. Send it back there I say. We may not realize it, but I think its diluting the game and eroding its integrity, slowly. And I am certain that the ARLC cannot allow it to continue. Its meant to be a family sport. Channel 9 are squarely to blame for the latest misdemeanor, but overall in the long term the ARLC has to accept gambling has no place front and center in the game. I want to be clear: I do not even think there is room for a compromise with gambling agencies. Get them out of the coverage. Keep them away from the sport. ************************* ---> I dont care who at channel 9 is a gambler or owner of horses, or in the NRL, its not relevant. Do you have a smoke on tv? Do you shoot up on tv? Do you drink alcohol on tv? But add this next thing to those: do you *ASK * other people to join in with your vice, looking at the camera and saying "Ok - who wants to have a smoke with me? Kiddies? Dads? Mums? And who wants a stiff shot of whiskey? - Go on! Just take one puff/sip - the odds on you coming back for more at some stage are quite good...." Keep your vices to yourself. Its made the whole coverage of the game disturbing. On the surface it may be tasteful, but I assure you there is a rotting and festering core beneath. ********************** These people live their days working out how to snare punters. And you want them sitting next to you in the commentary box. Of course I can not care for each and every individual out there who may lose money - thats not of my concern - its a persons right to do what they want with their own money. My concern is for the sport. And to that, and this article, I do agree the game needs to distance itself as far away as it can from gambling.

. . . . . and clean up after youself

Betting on horses can provide quite a lucrative income for those with sense enough to go about it the right way. Even though I abhor "gambling", betting on horses can be done strategically, and that strategy eliminates a fair chunk of the gamble. Singo's 100k potential bet on More Joyous was based upon the strategy. There was a time when I considered doing so myself.

How to end up with a small fortune betting on horses - Start with a large one.

Pretty simple isn't it, gambling is a fools game....as is rugby league.