My letter to the NRL CEO, Part 8: Sydney ground rationalisation

By code 13 / Roar Guru

Dear Davo Smithy. Let’s talk Sydney stadium rationalisation. Here’s what you need to ensure:

1) The stadiums are rectangular not oval.
2) They accommodate the future crowd growth that comes with centralised stadiums.
3) They’re located in close proximity to rail lines and major roadways.
4) They’re located near dining and entertainment districts.
5) The NRL has some form of control over their leases and/or management boards.
6) At least one of the new venues has a retractable roof.
7) Ensure tickets to all venues incorporate ‘event’ game public transportation costs.

You’re always going to have people clamoring for the glory days of 20 people sitting around on some muddy hill. I’m not saying hills don’t have their place in the game but if we genuinely want to improve crowds, we need the facilities that can accommodate the numbers.

No amount of retrofitting can solve the problems at Homebush. The viewing angles are terrible, there’s little else nearby and transportation can be problematic at the best of times.

That said, if you were to go a little further south you would find the rail lines that connect directly Penrith, Blacktown, Parramatta, Cabramatta, Liverpool, Bankstown, Strathfield and all the way to Central.

This Western Football Stadium (WFS) would be in the focal point between the Eels, Bulldogs, Tigers and western-based Rabbitohs supporters.

On the other side, the SFS, while being a top class stadium, currently services only one NRL club and likewise has transportation link issues from Central.

If you go further south/west towards Sydenham not only do you reach a focal point between Dragons, Roosters, Tigers and eastern Rabbitohs supporters, you also have lines that run from Liverpool, Bankstown, Campbelltown, St George district and into Central.

Somewhere along the rail line into Central is where I propose we place an Eastern Football Stadium (EFS).

The Penrith, Campbelltown, Cronulla and Northern Beaches districts are too far flung to be adequately service by these facilities, so they would need to maintain/upgrade their current infrastructure.

Furthermore I would propose every Sydney team would play one home game on the road in an expansion or regional area.

To compensate for this they would be rewarded with mutual membership entry at the two centralised stadiums.

Canterbury Bulldogs
11 home games at WFS.
One relocated home game in an expansion/regional city.
Three mutual membership away games at WFS (against Rabbitohs, Eels and Tigers).

Cronulla Sharks
11 home games at Cronulla.
One relocated home game in an expansion/regional city.
Three mutual membership away games at EFS (against Dragons, Tigers, Rabbitohs or Roosters).

Parramatta Eels
11 home games at WFS.
One relocated home game in an expansion/regional city.
Three mutual membership away games at WFS (against Rabbitohs, Bulldogs and Tigers).

Penrith Panthers
11 home games at Penrith.
One relocated home game in an expansion/regional city.
Three mutual membership away games at WFS (against Bulldogs, Eels and Rabbitohs).
One away game against Wests Tigers at Campbelltown.

South Sydney Rabbitohs
Six home games at WFS.
Five home games at EFS.
One relocated home game in an expansion/regional city.
And three mutual membership away games out of:
Three mutual membership away games at WFS (against Bulldogs, Eels and Tigers).
Two mutual membership away games at EFS (against Roosters and Dragons).

St George Illawarra Dragons
Seven home games at Wollongong.
Four home games at EFS.
One relocated home game in an expansion/regional city.
3 mutual membership away games at EFS (against Rabbitohs, Roosters and Tigers)

Sydney Roosters
11 home games at EFS.
One relocated home game in an expansion/regional city.
Three mutual membership away games at EFS (against Rabbitohs, Tigers and Dragons).

Wests Tigers
Six home games at Campbelltown.
Three home games at WFS (against Bulldogs, Eels and Rabbitohs).
Two home games at EFS (against Roosters and Dragons).
One relocated home game in an expansion/regional city.
Snd get three mutual membership away games out of:
Two mutual membership away games at WFS (against Bulldogs and Eels)
Three mutual membership away games at EFS (against Roosters, Rabbitohs and Dragons).

As you can see, every club would effectively receive 14 home games a season. Based on this arrangement each of the two new stadiums would host at least 31 NRL club games a year (in addition to finals and rep games).

They could also host the two A-League clubs and the Waratahs.

I would estimate, given the fan-bases and populations surrounding each stadium and the number of intra-Sydney matches, we should be looking at having the new eastern stadium capable of hosting around 45,000 and the new western stadium capable of hosting around 60,000.

Some may argue that’s still quite large but if we do conduct a proper stadium rationalisation then along with ticket cost reductions, better scheduling, mutual memberships, match of the round marketing and strong promotion, I suspect in 10 years’ time the vast majority of match-ups between the big Sydney teams could start attracting regular 40-60k crowds – akin to the Good Friday classic.

We have the game. We have the fans. Now all we need is the will to make it happen.

The Crowd Says:

2013-05-20T11:04:30+00:00

Crosscoder

Roar Guru


and further to my comments,here is another source about exactly what i was getting at:- http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs-labor-leaves-nsw-in-4bn-hole/story-fn59niix-1226029691977 So spending beyond one's means,was par for the course with the previous Govts.

2013-05-20T10:45:00+00:00

Crosscoder

Roar Guru


Perhaps my good friend AR,you refer to a Mr Barry o'Farrell,when he stated upon being elected Premier of NSW after the Keneally Govt was thrown out,he stated the coffers are empty.The treasurer Baird made a similar statement. previous labor Govts spent willy nilly. Conversely hypothetically if there were was no such comment,the previous Govts had money,and therefore requests by t the Sea Eagles should not have been dismissed. You can't justify and never have white elephant exenditure at Blacktown,no an underutilised one at Showground.And the story in the D.T backed me up.It;s there in black and white. I will continue to bang on " incessantly" whilst ever present AFL spin doctors who spend a great deal of time on rl threads,can't handle the fact NSW taxpayers ,have the audacity to question expenditure, which is nothing more than Govt waste.It sounds so much like the authority of the AFL,they are sacrosanct. I stated in one post ,and in typical fashion you deflected or ignored if the ARLC is required to put in money so be it.But the lame excuse a Govt has no funds ,has been shown to be a ploy as past experience has shown. You like to make a generalisation about all stadiums,then are shot down when I stated the Sharks main stand was self funded.I made a statement in past threads about money for roads and hospitals and was shot down by AFL wavers,yet you bring it up to back your argument about Govt needing to spend money on same.You dodge and weave to suit.

2013-05-20T06:23:08+00:00

Australian Rules

Guest


Can you please show me a quote or an article or a link where the NSW Govt claimed to have no money for stadia? You obviously haven't gotten over it and seem to bang on about it incessantly.

2013-05-20T03:02:08+00:00

Australian Rules

Guest


"What’s important though is that the NRL flexes its muscle to ensure that they have a strong say in the future stadium strategy." Flexing your muscles is what's important??? No code13, actually contributing capital, investing longterm...that's what's important. Do that, and the NRL *will* have a strong say in the future stadium strategy.

2013-05-19T09:01:42+00:00

Crosscoder

Roar Guru


Suggest you look at pages 60 -61 in today's Sunday Telegraph which isxactly my argument.But ,but it's the D.T.will be the response. BTW your comment about the Govt paid for all NRL stadiums is rubbish.The Sharks Peter Burns stand was part of the League's club,and part of the initial development cost. You still don't get it Skoda is rarely used,Brookvale has been around a lot longer by decades.And you continue ,repeat continue to ignore the simple basic fact,the State Govt has paid the overwhelming portion of the AFL improvements in sydney.Again refer to the D.T. Nowhere have you been able to justify Govt expenditure for Skoda an irregular used stadium and indeed the white elephant that is now Blacktown,where players are now all living at Breakfast Creek and Blacktown almost a memory. All of these NRL clubs have been established for decades not a couple of years. If a Govt is broke then they have no money for AFL/NRL whatever,yet you spin ,as AFL has put a small amount by comparison,having no Govt money is not an issue. They either have it or they dont.and i'll bet the Sea Eagles are sweating on Abbot to get in.

2013-05-19T04:35:30+00:00

Australian Rules

Guest


Cc Who do you think has paid for every single stadium used by NRL clubs? Local, state and federal governments. That's a fact. ALL stadiums in NSW have been propped up by the government over the decades. So Whinging that some money went to AFL/cricket stadiums recently is just not rooted in any sort of reality. The govt has said 'enough'.

2013-05-17T22:21:52+00:00

Crosscoder

Roar Guru


AR I will spell it out one more time.At the time when the monies were contributed towards Blacktown and Skoda(without even including the SCG),when the state govt was stone motherless broke,I and quite a few others pointed out the absurdity of the expenditure,when schools ,hospitals and roads were in more need.Blacktown proving my point. We were pilloried from head to toe by the AFL wavers including yourself,and now in your argument you quite happily use the same point,so its all in order.I repeat HYPOCRISY.You can't have it both ways. You can throw up figures ,the Govt ie taxpayers in the end foot the majority of the bill,whcih we all concede.Contribution by your code has been of a very minor nature,so don't melt your chocolates. The Keneally govt was broke,and iemma made committments regardless of his cessation in 2008. I know the AFL method is to give a little and receive a lot,other codes will have to use the same methodology. The precedent has been set,small contributions are needed to get a new stadium.That is fine the ARLC will have money to do such.And on that basis O'Farrell should be able to finance the rest ,the Keneally way. ANZ stadium has been bastardised by being also reconfigured for oval sports,especially as we have the SCG.It is used regularly by 3 codes of football,and the fans have to put up with being some distance away. Seriously AR ,have you not heard of Nth Sydney Oval(I believe the Swans played a game there once) for starters that is also an oval.Henson Park. There are 9 NRL teams,1 S15 ,2 A League ,plus many sub division teams,and GWS actually spends much of its time in windswept Canberra.It''s the Oliver syndrome Ï want more". The overwhleming majority of funding was provided by state and Federal govts,that is absolute FACT.Money was found ,that's my point.

2013-05-17T13:13:03+00:00

Damn Straight

Roar Rookie


A little off topic, but interestingly Mushi(interesting because you are a banker), the wizard of oz was a metaphorical story about the inherently fraudulent nature of the fractional reserve and central banking systems. Author Frank Baum was well aware of the perils associated with giving the power to issue a nations currency to private interests, under the false pretense of being a government agency. This documentary is quite an eye opener for someone who doesn't understand how the central banking and money creation systems work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIhDdST27g

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:31:44+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


Agreed hence why the far flung fan bases - Penrith, Campbelltown, Cronulla, Brookvale - should all keep their home grounds. I doubt we'll ever go to 2 stadiums only.

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:30:09+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


Pretty much but I do feel like the SFS' age and location warrants a rethink.

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:29:11+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


The problem being though that it's well outside the core concentration of the Tigers & Bulldogs fanbases and further into the Eels territory. If the new stadium were position more to the south (coincidentally, towards Stadium Australia way) it falls in the middle of all three and as you say can also serve the Wanderers.

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:25:54+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


Superstar superhuman, I would suggest that considering where the Panthers fans are located is too far west to work with Dogs, Eels and Tigers fans at the same facility. Some people have suggested a Panthers-Eels ground at Blacktown but I suspect that when you compare the two clubs the Panthers will be the minority tennants and we will either have a case of the Eels games hitting capacity too often or too many empty seats at Panthers matches. Regarding the Rabbitohs fanbase, they are so evenly spread around Sydney now that they've been able to make ANZ work. It makes sense that they play Western Sydney teams at a centralised stadium in the West and Eastern Sydney teams at a centralised stadium in the East to maximise attendances. Regarding Campbelltown, that corridor is earmarked for massive future population growth and is far from the rest of the city that abandoning it altogether would be one of those mistakes that we'd later come to regret. I do agree though that scheduling is a major problem and I'll be discussing that in a future article.

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:18:30+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


It's not two stadiums, it's six. WFS, EFS, Penrith, Campbelltown, Cronulla and Brookvale.

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:17:37+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


There are multiple ways these facilities can be funded and they can also have other uses. If we build it, they will come...

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:15:56+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


You can't please everybody but if we're going to move to a centralised system (which we should) then we need to ensure that they're located for maximum potential.

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:14:49+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


You're right. We basically need two Lang Park stadiums that can service 3-4 teams each. That's part of how you'll grow the game to get your 50,000 club averages.

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:13:02+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


For what its worth the Dragons might not fill out Kogarah at the moment but they're one of the biggest clubs in the comp and they're soon going to find it too small for their needs.

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:11:05+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


Because people who start saying "It'll cost exactly XXXX amount for this stadium" are usually pulling figures out of nowhere. They should go work for the NSW government... As to who would pay for it there are too many options to simply say "this is the only credible option". The main focus of the article is to point out that there are two specific areas in Sydney that are the focal points between 4 NRL fan bases and that if we're heading towards a centralised stadium system then the smart solution would be to position the new venues at these focal points as long as they have access to rail, parking and other entertainment options. As for Homebush, nowhere in my article do I suggest that we keep it open. If the AFL & CCA can convince the government to continue to fund it for their sports then so be it but it is useless as a rectangular sport venue. If the new Western stadium had a 60k capacity I would happily sacrifice the 60,000 fans who miss out on seats for Origin & Grand Final in exchange for the increase in crowds at every one of the 31 NRL club matches held there.

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T07:02:25+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


The teams with support bases in the Eastern/City part of Sydney - Roosters, Dragons, Rabbitohs and the inner west Tigers fans - need to be able to get to the stadium from all directions. What I'm proposing is a stadium that is both centralised between those 4 fanbases and accessible via direct-to-door public transport. When you start needing to transfer between multiple modes of transport and adding those costs to the ticket prices, that's when you start to lose the interest of the less hardcore supporters. I'd have no problem with the SFS being the Eastern stadium if the game day public transport options and carpark facilities were improved. That said the location was poorly planned to begin with...

AUTHOR

2013-05-17T06:57:38+00:00

code 13

Roar Guru


BA Sports - you're right on the money about Stadiums needing other uses and that's how you get private enterprise to invest.

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